Teaching Crisis - It is my Generations Fault.
Discussion
Just my own thoughts and mini rant.
I am a child of the 70's and 80's. During this time huge swaths of school children became traumatised with regards to certain subjects. My example is maths. Role on 40 odd years and some of those school children work in the education industry (teachers, working for education companies or exam bodies etc). They will still have that maths trauma with them. This then leads to the following scenario.
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
John
I am a child of the 70's and 80's. During this time huge swaths of school children became traumatised with regards to certain subjects. My example is maths. Role on 40 odd years and some of those school children work in the education industry (teachers, working for education companies or exam bodies etc). They will still have that maths trauma with them. This then leads to the following scenario.
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
John
Greenmantle said:
Just my own thoughts and mini rant.
I am a child of the 70's and 80's. During this time huge swaths of school children became traumatised with regards to certain subjects. My example is maths. Role on 40 odd years and some of those school children work in the education industry (teachers, working for education companies or exam bodies etc). They will still have that maths trauma with them. This then leads to the following scenario.
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
John
Why would somebody with "maths trauma" want to be a maths teacher?I am a child of the 70's and 80's. During this time huge swaths of school children became traumatised with regards to certain subjects. My example is maths. Role on 40 odd years and some of those school children work in the education industry (teachers, working for education companies or exam bodies etc). They will still have that maths trauma with them. This then leads to the following scenario.
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
John
This will get moved to the lounge soon which is a zoo. Regardless, I'm glad to hear standards are high - many of the people who I know who went into teaching did so because they got crap degrees and couldn't get other jobs.
Whilst this will do a disservice to all of those great hard working teachers who are passionate about education, there is no doubt that a healthy amount couldn't give a toss about the kids and their education and for them it is a sort of McJob
Whilst this will do a disservice to all of those great hard working teachers who are passionate about education, there is no doubt that a healthy amount couldn't give a toss about the kids and their education and for them it is a sort of McJob
Krikkit said:
Greenmantle said:
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree...
That seems like a very punitive restriction - I thought you simply had to have a technical degree and demonstrate mathematical skill?Dept for Education said:
If you don’t have a maths degree, or need to refresh your knowledge, you could complete a fully funded subject knowledge enhancement (SKE) course before you start your training.
From https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-m...SKEs - https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-m...
Teaching a subject requires a rounded knowledge of a subject from many different angles, and background knowledge to back up the simple rules learnt at GCSE. In my own subject, Physics, it's one of the easiest GCSEs out there, but I can easily understand why a degree is a requirement to teach it.
Think of it this way: an 18 year old who's just passed their driving test is in no position to teach driving.
Think of it this way: an 18 year old who's just passed their driving test is in no position to teach driving.
Greenmantle said:
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
This is, I suppose, an illustration of the flipside of increasing access to university education - it means that older generations find themselves increasingly locked out of industries because they don't have a degree, despite that industry not needing a degree when they were 18.NickCQ said:
Greenmantle said:
I recently went to an open evening on becoming a teacher. For me to train to teach maths I require a Maths Degree. Well that counts me out. I have an A grade in O Level Maths, 2 A grades at A level maths and a Honours Degree in Engineering. Anybody who knows maths understands clearly that O Level Maths is a piece of p*ss compared to A level Maths and you don't need to have a Degree in maths to teach it. It is certainly not some black art that can only be understood at University.
This is, I suppose, an illustration of the flipside of increasing access to university education - it means that older generations find themselves increasingly locked out of industries because they don't have a degree, despite that industry not needing a degree when they were 18.NickCQ said:
This is, I suppose, an illustration of the flipside of increasing access to university education - it means that older generations find themselves increasingly locked out of industries because they don't have a degree, despite that industry not needing a degree when they were 18.
If they're already in those industries, then their experience will trump the need for a degree.If they're looking to change career, then why shouldn't all new entrants require the same qualifications, regardless of their age? Surely it would be age discrimination not to require the same qualifications from older people? There's always the mature student (full or part time) option to get a degree...
It doesn't have to be 'your' generation. My wife and I were (just) born in the 70's and it applies to us.
My wife has recently stepped away from a very successful career in academia. She has the full suite of GCSE's at A / A*, A levels, a BSc (Hons), an MSc, a PhD, is a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, Fellow of the Higher Education Academy and is a Chartered Geographer. She's had 15yrs in higher education in Scotland teaching fluid and sediment dynamics at a very advanced level, has research income to date measured in millions and taught numerical subjects to hundred of students over the years.
All that being said, what she really wants / needs to do now is teach in schools (i.e. further education, possibly primary level). The feedback she got was that she was under qualified!! And this is with a shortage of teachers, go figure.
My wife has recently stepped away from a very successful career in academia. She has the full suite of GCSE's at A / A*, A levels, a BSc (Hons), an MSc, a PhD, is a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, Fellow of the Higher Education Academy and is a Chartered Geographer. She's had 15yrs in higher education in Scotland teaching fluid and sediment dynamics at a very advanced level, has research income to date measured in millions and taught numerical subjects to hundred of students over the years.
All that being said, what she really wants / needs to do now is teach in schools (i.e. further education, possibly primary level). The feedback she got was that she was under qualified!! And this is with a shortage of teachers, go figure.
TooMany2cvs said:
NickCQ said:
This is, I suppose, an illustration of the flipside of increasing access to university education - it means that older generations find themselves increasingly locked out of industries because they don't have a degree, despite that industry not needing a degree when they were 18.
If they're already in those industries, then their experience will trump the need for a degree.If they're looking to change career, then why shouldn't all new entrants require the same qualifications, regardless of their age? Surely it would be age discrimination not to require the same qualifications from older people? There's always the mature student (full or part time) option to get a degree...
I suppose what I was saying is that there should be some "positive discrimination" towards those that want to teach the subjects that has a shortage of teachers. Hell the NHS do it already and I know the private sector do it all the time so why not the teaching profession. Obviously standards should not drop but insisting on a maths degree to teach maths at secondary school level is rubbish. We all know that having a degree in a subject doesn't mean that you can teach that subject.
It has been over 30 years since I have used calculus in anger but I could pick it up again quite soon.
John
It has been over 30 years since I have used calculus in anger but I could pick it up again quite soon.
John
TooMany2cvs said:
Why would somebody with "maths trauma" want to be a maths teacher?
Because once you've got through an education of being badly taught, I guess you feel like you could help others by teaching them in a way you'd consider 'correct'?I often feel this way, but wouldn't want to be a teacher under current circumstances
Greenmantle said:
I suppose what I was saying is that there should be some "positive discrimination" towards those that want to teach the subjects that has a shortage of teachers. Hell the NHS do it already and I know the private sector do it all the time so why not the teaching profession. Obviously standards should not drop but insisting on a maths degree to teach maths at secondary school level is rubbish. We all know that having a degree in a subject doesn't mean that you can teach that subject.
It has been over 30 years since I have used calculus in anger but I could pick it up again quite soon.
John
Do it then?It has been over 30 years since I have used calculus in anger but I could pick it up again quite soon.
John
https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-m...
If you don’t have a maths degree, or need to refresh your knowledge, you could complete a fully funded subject knowledge enhancement (SKE) course before you start your training. During the course, you could get a SKE bursary of up to £2,400 for a shorter course of 8-12 weeks and up to £5,600 for a 28-week course
MTech535 said:
I'm pretty sure that the PE teacher who has been teaching my friend's son's GCSE maths class for the past 6 months doesn't have a maths degree
This is the problem these days as it's such a shortage subject. Maths is a tricky one, because it can be so so dry and dull if you don't have a teacher who's passionate about it. I'm really not convinced by the drive from the TTA to get non-maths people in to teach it, but of course they have to start doing that because people like me don't want to teach and they have a huge shortage of maths teachers - we take our degrees elsewhere and earn much more money working half the hours with low stress. I seriously considered teaching for many years, but I just don't think I want to earn less money getting more stressed!Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff