Discussion
My mate's wife has just died of cancer, 3 years on and off, getting better, giving hope, having a child, then snatching it away. They even raised 30k for experimental treatment, buy finally passed away today.
She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
Sorry for your loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfIBEJYZG7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfIBEJYZG7o
Edited by B17NNS on Monday 12th June 20:45
Reminds me of the interview with Stephen Fry - when he's asked what he would do if he ever came face-to-face with God. Here is an extract:
“How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
I fully agree. In my atheist mindset I see faith as little more than weakness - acknowledge that others can praise an imaginary being in whatever ancient scripture they like, but it's no more real than my 4 year old's imaginary friend "Chatty". Fortunately, she'll grow out of it.
My life has been relatively priveleged and I'm grateful. But my mum has long suffered from MS and this debilitating disease has taken so much from her over the years. As she gets older, she has begun to question whether God is real, a direct consequence of her own fear for when the curtains fall. To see her genuinely frightened is harrowing and also leads you to be slightly hypocritical with your own views, so as not to make matters worse.
I won't even round this off as politely as others do by using the "if there is a God" line, because I am so confident there isn't. I'd be in the queue to kick him square in the nuts.
“How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
I fully agree. In my atheist mindset I see faith as little more than weakness - acknowledge that others can praise an imaginary being in whatever ancient scripture they like, but it's no more real than my 4 year old's imaginary friend "Chatty". Fortunately, she'll grow out of it.
My life has been relatively priveleged and I'm grateful. But my mum has long suffered from MS and this debilitating disease has taken so much from her over the years. As she gets older, she has begun to question whether God is real, a direct consequence of her own fear for when the curtains fall. To see her genuinely frightened is harrowing and also leads you to be slightly hypocritical with your own views, so as not to make matters worse.
I won't even round this off as politely as others do by using the "if there is a God" line, because I am so confident there isn't. I'd be in the queue to kick him square in the nuts.
The Spruce goose said:
She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
I think you know the answer - that there is no such thing as god.I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
Sorry for your/your mates loss. At least her pain is over.
OP, You don't say if your mate himself is religious. It would be interesting to know.
Her faith may well have helped her through her struggles.
Most people with religion don't blame their God for their illness and the deaths of their loved ones, as after all, everyone dies. Their faith gives them comfort and takes away the need for an answer to a question with no answer.
Her faith may well have helped her through her struggles.
Most people with religion don't blame their God for their illness and the deaths of their loved ones, as after all, everyone dies. Their faith gives them comfort and takes away the need for an answer to a question with no answer.
My issue is this:
If there was a God that created everything, why do those that believe in him think he's still out there, listening and observing?
Maybe some super being in an alternate reality created everything in some massive experiment. But that doesn't mean he's still presiding over everything. Could have moved on to something more interesting. Could have died.
Certainly not out there controlling the lottery numbers or any other such prayer.
If there was a God that created everything, why do those that believe in him think he's still out there, listening and observing?
Maybe some super being in an alternate reality created everything in some massive experiment. But that doesn't mean he's still presiding over everything. Could have moved on to something more interesting. Could have died.
Certainly not out there controlling the lottery numbers or any other such prayer.
There may be ways to understand suffering for those interested in its whys and wherefores.
What are the four noble truths?
It was these four principles that the Buddha came to understand during his meditation under the bodhi tree.
The truth of suffering (Dukkha)
The truth of the origin of suffering (Samudāya)
The truth of the cessation of suffering (Nirodha)
The truth of the path to the cessation of suffering (Magga)
The Spruce goose said:
My mate's wife has just died of cancer, 3 years on and off, getting better, giving hope, having a child, then snatching it away. They even raised 30k for experimental treatment, buy finally passed away today.
She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
I come from a family of devout church goers.She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
Where was their god when my baby boy died? None of them are able to give me an answer, yet they continue.
drainbrain said:
'Suffering' in its many forms is part of the natural human condition.
I guess the question is why though?Why do humans have to live on earth for a few years and suffer - only to be granted all of eternity in eternal bliss in paradise (just as long as they follows 'the rules' whilst suffering).
It all seems rather convenient. Humans suffer - therefore we have to shoehorn some explanation of why that is into religion.
First Religious person - "God the almighty, created the earth, filled it with bountiful things and then created us in his image to live upon the earth and then transcend to heaven as long as we follow these rules (hands stone tablet over)"
Other Person - "But there is so much suffering in the world. Why would God do that, when he could have easily created a world without suffering or just created us in heaven in the first place"
Religious person - "Ermmm......ah......hmmmm, let me think.......oh yeh - it's because he works in 'mysterious ways' innit"
Other Person - "Oh ok - that explains it - sign me up"
The Spruce goose said:
My mate's wife has just died of cancer, 3 years on and off, getting better, giving hope, having a child, then snatching it away. They even raised 30k for experimental treatment, buy finally passed away today.
She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
An old friend is a preacher, he has cancer. All I see are prayers to god, no thanks to the oncologists who have spent years studying to save him...She was religious, but i just can't see how if they is any God, they would inflict such torture on my mate, as well as allowing his never hurt anyone in her life wife to die. I am sure there are millions of worse cases out there but it really brings it home to me there is nobody there, because if there was he would be the sickest person that ever existed.
I know the argument, these things are to test us, but lets be honest, some of the sickest vilest people have lived in impunity there lives to die at an old age.
OverSteery said:
Einion Yrth said:
I rather think Epicurus nailed it.
Cheers for that - I've never come across that name before - so I've been googling. Amazing really considering he was circa 300bc.What I find it amazing that the statement attributed to him is used, these days principally, to discredit belief in the Christian God.
There is something about the timing that seems slightly off somehow.
WinstonWolf said:
An old friend is a preacher, he has cancer. All I see are prayers to god, no thanks to the oncologists who have spent years studying to save him...
He may well consider the oncologists to be the answers to his prayers.A bit slow in arriving one must admit, but then we do seem to have been left to our own devices.
C.A.R. said:
Reminds me of the interview with Stephen Fry...<snip>
I have always found Stephen Fry's adherence to a belief in a very Anglican God to be quite charming somehow.After all, going by most other descriptions, God would not allow him the time to make his silly speech and would simply smite him straight to the seven Hells for all eternity. The blessing of being born an Englishman!
You tell Him Stephen!
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff