The $450M Da Vinci
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Davey S2

Original Poster:

13,394 posts

284 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I did have a look but couldn't see a topic already (awaits people linking current topic).

So what are people's thoughts on the $400M paid ($450.3M inc fees) for this yesterday?



I'm a long way from being a tree hugging socialist and can sort of get people paying £30M for a 250 GTO but this just seems utterly crackers, especially as there are still plenty of experts who dispute Da Vinci himself painted it.

If there is any evidence needed that the world has gone mad and there are genuinely people with more money than sense then look no further than one of the other lots sold by Christies last night.

I give you this by Cy Twombly (never heard of him) which sold for $46,437,500.




Now the Da Vinci may have been painted by the man himself and looks like a pretty good painting of Jesus to me but this thing is, in anyones book, just red paintbrush strokes on a canvas.

Staggering

The Surveyor

7,624 posts

267 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I think that Da Vinci painting as a unique piece of art is stunning. It's priceless until you put it up for sale and ask people to bid for it.

The comparison to the 250 GTO is interesting, there are 39 of those so not unique and if you miss one at auction there will be another along sooner or later.

Shuvi McTupya

24,460 posts

277 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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That's not 'Jesus', the guy in that painting is white for a start .

And what on earth is he holding in his hand, I can only speculate that it is a glass sphere?

Where would 'Jesus' get a glass sphere from?

So, what we have here is a picture of an unknown white guy who is possibly a time traveller, and we don't even know for sure who painted it.

Take my money!


joestifff

890 posts

136 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Money laundering.....

shakotan

10,862 posts

226 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Davey S2 said:
I give you this by Cy Twombly (never heard of him) which sold for $46,437,500.




Now the Da Vinci may have been painted by the man himself and looks like a pretty good painting of Jesus to me but this thing is, in anyones book, just red paintbrush strokes on a canvas.

Staggering
I've said this before, 'modern' artists are nothing more than great storytellers, not artists. The sheep lap the ridiculous straplines about the symbolism of the piece and shell out large sums of money to appear (to themselves) more interesting and intelligent than other people.

StevieBee

15,384 posts

285 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Threads on art and modern art crop up from time to time and are as fruitless as a baron orchard.

The subject is entirely subjective.

The value of art is determined by nothing other than at least two people wanting the same painting. The cost is the result of a completion of one of them wanting it more than the other.

That's it really.

Davey S2

Original Poster:

13,394 posts

284 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Threads on art and modern art crop up from time to time and are as fruitless as a baron orchard.

The subject is entirely subjective.

The value of art is determined by nothing other than at least two people wanting the same painting. The cost is the result of a completion of one of them wanting it more than the other.

That's it really.
But that still poses the question why someone is willing to pay $46M for the painting above which involves no artistic skill whatsoever.

It was also the largest in a series of paintings by the 'artist' so not exactly unique. Look at it. Just look at it. $46M

Usget

5,426 posts

241 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Yes but nobody forced anyone to pay $46m for it at gunpoint. So at least one person must reckon it's worth nearly $46m, and another, the lucky owner, must reckon it's worth at least that.

To me, yes, it looks like some red bits on some white bits. But why is that any less attractive than the Picasso above? You might say, "Well, I could do that red squiggle". But the fact is, you didn't, did you? The fact that the artist did, and that other people can interpret that squiggle and tell you exactly why it's so squiggly, means that it has value. Subjective value, granted, but value nonetheless.

Artists have always been storytellers IMO.

ETA: I wouldn't give you a quid for it.

BoRED S2upid

21,070 posts

270 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I get art fetching stupids amounts of money when some skill is involved a GTO could also be viewed as art and the amounts are subjective as people have billions now so hundreds of millions is still pin money for them.

As for the red scrawl that’s not art there is no skill involved and anyone who wants to argue the point will be very impressed by my art collection on my fridge done by Bored S2upid junior aged 4. No talent whatsoever just scrawls. I’ve probably got a hundred million worth sat in the kitchen.

Usget

5,426 posts

241 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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BoRED S2upid said:
I get art fetching stupids amounts of money when some skill is involved a GTO could also be viewed as art and the amounts are subjective as people have billions now so hundreds of millions is still pin money for them.

As for the red scrawl that’s not art there is no skill involved and anyone who wants to argue the point will be very impressed by my art collection on my fridge done by Bored S2upid junior aged 4. No talent whatsoever just scrawls. I’ve probably got a hundred million worth sat in the kitchen.
So sell it and buy a GTO...?

TwistingMyMelon

6,516 posts

235 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Stuff is worth how much people want to pay for it, two people wanted to pay a lot so that's how much it cost the winner: JobJobbed

GAjon

4,097 posts

243 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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What that picture needs is a fag in between the fingers of the right hand and the sphere changing to an ashtray, maybe a puff if smoke from the lips?

Dynamic Space Wizard

964 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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The buyers are stupid because they could've just downloaded the two pictures from the Internet. That's what I've just done, and you can have the pair of them for only $350,000,000, but hurry, they won't be this cheap for long laugh

StevieBee

15,384 posts

285 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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If you want real art, you need to get yourself to the Del La Warr in Bexhill where stuff like this is (or was a few years ago) on display.

Truly inspirational and a good job they put the rope there on the floor or someone would have had it away, make no mistake.


The Ferret

1,293 posts

190 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Usget said:
The fact that the artist did, and that other people can interpret that squiggle and tell you exactly why it's so squiggly, means that it has value.
rofl


ChocolateFrog

34,954 posts

203 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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A near $300 million profit in just a few years. Can't be many better business transactions than that.

Roofless Toothless

7,583 posts

162 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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Usget said:
Yes but nobody forced anyone to pay $46m for it at gunpoint. So at least one person must reckon it's worth nearly $46m, and another, the lucky owner, must reckon it's worth at least that.

To me, yes, it looks like some red bits on some white bits. But why is that any less attractive than the Picasso above? You might say, "Well, I could do that red squiggle". But the fact is, you didn't, did you? The fact that the artist did, and that other people can interpret that squiggle and tell you exactly why it's so squiggly, means that it has value. Subjective value, granted, but value nonetheless.

Artists have always been storytellers IMO.

ETA: I wouldn't give you a quid for it.
Well, it looks like a Da Vinci above to me. I don't know where Picasso comes from.

Of course, the point is that works of art have to be judged in the context of their time, and to people in the early 16th century, the work by Leonardo may well have looked as avent garde as the modern work does today.

A different sort of technical ability is called for, I willingly admit, but technique is not the only measure of a work's significance.

Ayahuasca

27,584 posts

309 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I have ceased to be amazed by stuff selling for what seems like ridiculous amounts - Da Vincis, Bitcoin, McLaren F1s, in the 1600s it was tulip bulbs.

AdamIndy

1,661 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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As an auctioneer I find it baffling I really do. I have sold things of value and wondered what the actual fk is going on. Each to their own I guess.

I wouldn't mind pocketing the fee's though.hehe

Ayahuasca

27,584 posts

309 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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As it sold in a public auction, it now has a price that everyone knows. Thus it is (hopefully) unlikely to lose money. This makes it a relatively secure store of wealth. There are not many things worth half a billion dollars that you can keep anywhere, move anywhere, without anything more sophisticated than a cardboard tube. It is the ultimate cashier's cheque or bearer share.