A touch of etymology

[davhill]

Hello,

I'm looking for a little assistance from the ph collective, especially the polyglots, globetrotters and those with
experience of the British Raj and associated languages.

I quote Spike Milligan, from 'Rommel? Gunner who?'



I went to Gurgle translate, where my suspicions were confirmed.

In the Zulu language, a toilet is called a yangasese

Mindful of many areas where we Brits went empire-building, I put 'toilet' in and these showed up...

Afrikaans toilet
Bengali টয়লেট
Gujarati શૌચાલય
Hindi शौचालय
Punjabi ਟਾਇਲਟ
Somali musqusha

But the plit thockened. On one site, it was suggested that though it isn't rhyming slang, 'karzi' comes from 'carsey', an old cockney word for a commode.

Then again,

'Lexicographer Eric Partridge derives khazi, also spelt karzy, kharsie or carzey, from a low Cockney word carsey originating in the late 19th century and meaning a privvy. Carsey also referred to a den or brothel. It is presumably derived from the Italian casa for house, with the spelling influenced by similar sound to khaki. Khazi is now most commonly used in the city of Liverpool in the UK, away from its cockney slang roots.'

This seems the more likely, even more so than the Italian 'Casa'.

Or is it from an act of revenge by Zulu king Cetawayo, seeking to corrupt the English language after having lost 351 of his best warriors at Rorke's Drift in 1879?

[Cold]

This is a conundrum best directed towards the staff of W.C. Boggs & Son.

[Pothole]

As yon lexiwhassname defines "low cockney" does that mean there was also "high cockney"? Right at the top of the apples, no doubt!

[davhill]

Cold said:

This is a conundrum best directed towards the staff of W.C. Boggs & Son.

Perhaps. No need to be po-faced about it.

[Frank7]

As a true blue Cockney, not only born within the sound of St. Mary Le Bow’s bells, but if it weren’t for the buildings between Cannon St. and Cheapside, within sight of them, I can reliably inform you that carsey doesn’t just mean a toilet to a Londoner.
It’s also extensively used to describe any soi-disant habitation that is less than desirable, e.g. “We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute carsey.”
FWIW, I’ve always subscribed to the theory that carsey stemmed from casa.

[andy_s]

Italian, but perhaps truncation of 'Casino' - not 'casinò' (a gambling casino), but literally a 'brothel' or figuratively a 'mess'; exactly as the French 'Bordel' means 'brothel' but also figuratively means 'chaotic/mess' or 'fustercluck'.

[Doofus]

Frank7 said:

I can reliably inform you that carsey doesn’t just mean a toilet to a Londoner.

It’s also extensively used to describe any soi-disant habitation that is less than desirable, e.g. “We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute carsey.”

But surely, in the sentence you've proposed, that's exactly what 'carsey' means.

We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute toilet.

[Frank7]

Doofus said:

Frank7 said:

I can reliably inform you that carsey doesn’t just mean a toilet to a Londoner.

It’s also extensively used to describe any soi-disant habitation that is less than desirable, e.g. “We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute carsey.”

But surely, in the sentence you've proposed, that's exactly what 'carsey' means.

We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute toilet.

While I certainly take your point, and your post makes absolute sense, the use of “carsey” as a slang term for toilet is the most well known use of the word.
The use of it describe a dirty, untidy, place is just one among many, tip, shambles, hovel, slum, pig sty, hell hole etc., but I repeat, you’re right in what you said.

[Doofus]

Frank7 said:

While I certainly take your point, and your post makes absolute sense, the use of “carsey” as a slang term for toilet is the most well known use of the word.
The use of it describe a dirty, untidy, place is just one among many, tip, shambles, hovel, slum, pig sty, hell hole etc., but I repeat, you’re right in what you said.

I think what we're saying is that carsey is a synonym for toilet, and toilet itself is a synonym for (inter alia) hovel. So by extension, carsey is a synonym for hovel.

[captain_cynic]

Frank7 said:

FWIW, I’ve always subscribed to the theory that carsey stemmed from casa.

If it originated from Spanish, "cagar" meaning to st could also be the origin but Spanish for toilet is Baño so I don't think it is (or could be a corruption of the two).

[eldar]

Cold said:

This is a conundrum best directed towards the staff of W.C. Boggs & Son.

Nah, Mr. Thomas Crapper is your man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crapper

Khazi in Zulu translates to Home in English.

Edited by eldar on Monday 26th February 16:34

[boxedin]

Frank7 said:

As a true blue Cockney, not only born within the sound of St. Mary Le Bow’s bells, but if it weren’t for the buildings between Cannon St. and Cheapside, within sight of them, I can reliably inform you that carsey doesn’t just mean a toilet to a Londoner.
It’s also extensively used to describe any soi-disant habitation that is less than desirable, e.g. “We rented an apartment in Albufeira/Dalston/York/Milan, it turned out to be an absolute carsey.”
FWIW, I’ve always subscribed to the theory that carsey stemmed from casa.

We always used it to describe a place, thus avoiding using sthole in polite company. Toliets are 'bogs', its just about the shortest choice when asking / shouting for directions to in a rush.

[davhill]

By George, we've got it! Another small victory to add to the lexicon of life. Well done all.

Edited by davhill on Monday 26th February 23:06