Life after death
Discussion
I consider myself a scientist rather than a believer
For me there is obviously life after death. Every part of me will lake part in another living being. Every bit of me is re-incarnated apart from the 'consciousness'.
Wouldn't that be the logical assumption of both science and religion. A common ground if you will?
For me there is obviously life after death. Every part of me will lake part in another living being. Every bit of me is re-incarnated apart from the 'consciousness'.
Wouldn't that be the logical assumption of both science and religion. A common ground if you will?
Not really, where is the science to back it up?
Science = tangable facts and figures to direct at a repetable conclusion.
What you suggest, is really a religion.
Before the "Cloud Fairy" bashers get in... What you describe is what most people want to believe in. it is not human nature to believe that at some point, we simply stop existing. To imagine nothingness for an eternity is rather difficult for the human mind to comprehend.
For others, having a belief in heaven, an afterlife or reincarnation gives some kind of comfort.
At the end of the day, whats the point in life, following the rules and being kind to others if we all do end up as worm food. Everyone would just take what they need/want and screw over others. because we would be living in the here and now with no consequences.
On the flip side, if we all do end up as worm food with an eternity of nothing. just ceasing to exist. then whats the problem with a handful of wasted Sundays?
Science = tangable facts and figures to direct at a repetable conclusion.
What you suggest, is really a religion.
Before the "Cloud Fairy" bashers get in... What you describe is what most people want to believe in. it is not human nature to believe that at some point, we simply stop existing. To imagine nothingness for an eternity is rather difficult for the human mind to comprehend.
For others, having a belief in heaven, an afterlife or reincarnation gives some kind of comfort.
At the end of the day, whats the point in life, following the rules and being kind to others if we all do end up as worm food. Everyone would just take what they need/want and screw over others. because we would be living in the here and now with no consequences.
On the flip side, if we all do end up as worm food with an eternity of nothing. just ceasing to exist. then whats the problem with a handful of wasted Sundays?
julian64 said:
I consider myself a scientist rather than a believer
For me there is obviously life after death.
Those two sentences are incompatible.For me there is obviously life after death.
edit to add : having said that, the common ground is a good argument in the way you describe.
Edited by Atomic12C on Wednesday 7th March 09:54
Evidence, there certainly is, just not sufficient evidence to constitute proof beyond reasonable doubt.
To the OP, the notion that biological matter is ultimately recycled in to something new is nothing more than a coincidence, and has no relevance to the "life after death" in the spiritual sense Christians (etc.) are talking about. The only common ground to be found is semantic, in this case.
To the OP, the notion that biological matter is ultimately recycled in to something new is nothing more than a coincidence, and has no relevance to the "life after death" in the spiritual sense Christians (etc.) are talking about. The only common ground to be found is semantic, in this case.
Prizam said:
For others, having a belief in heaven, an afterlife or reincarnation gives some kind of comfort.
At the end of the day, whats the point in life, following the rules and being kind to others if we all do end up as worm food. Everyone would just take what they need/want and screw over others. because we would be living in the here and now with no consequences.
If you have a belief and that gives you some kind of comfort - well, that's good, isn't it?At the end of the day, whats the point in life, following the rules and being kind to others if we all do end up as worm food. Everyone would just take what they need/want and screw over others. because we would be living in the here and now with no consequences.
The second paragraph - we can only try to instil into others, our children, our grandchildren, our friends and neighbours, some of our own 'goodness' and hope that our goodness and values will permeate into others.
I have trouble with my beliefs. I think that when we die the lights go out and that is it. We are not going to have some sort of meet up with Mum and Dad and all the others who died before us.
That works for me , everything in the universe (s)? is constantly being recycled . I think that is the cross over point for science and faith/religion . Energy apparently cannot be destroyed , only changed into another form of energy . Our thoughts "soul" ? is electrical energy . So yes , I do believe existence of some type continues after "life' ends . Be interesting to find out ...
Edited by Captain Smerc on Wednesday 7th March 10:02
julian64 said:
For me there is obviously life after death. Every part of me will lake part in another living being. Every bit of me is re-incarnated apart from the 'consciousness'.
Nicely done. I don't think anybody's actually twigged your meaning there, apart from Hungrymc.Clue to those who didn't notice the "apart" : Short-term carbon cycle?
What happens after death does intrigue me I don't believe in a god but I do find it odd to comprehend nothing, but I guess before I was born there was nothing, it kind of does my head in to some extent, much like where we all are; the universe, existing on a big sphere in a black expanse.
HustleRussell said:
I get what Julian is saying but I don’t think that my 84kgs of biomatter one day being consumed by worms or whooshing up a pire into the atmosphere can be equated to the concept of reincarnation which I thought specifically related to the ‘soul’, ‘consciousness’, ‘Qi’ or whatever.
Yep that was the meaning. Everyone is reincarnated in terms of any useful matter in their system. I assume that the consciousness is a pattern of electrical or biochemical energy that makes us think In the way we do at which point it will be the only thing that doesn't make it statistically speaking to another organism.Whether eaten by worms or burnt the elements don't change and are a finite resource in an enclosed environment. They will undoubtedly be reincarnated into another composition even if after a number of inanimate steps are included.
Such that reincarnation in some form is a scientific fact that both religion and science can agree on?
Perhaps it simply comes down to the use of the word re-incarnation in this context, but I think it fits both.
There's a hilarious paradox in the human consciousness not being able to understand itself not existing:
Before it was born, it did not exist.
It exists now.
It can't comprehend not existing, but it knows that it previously did not exist.
It can't even remember most of the time that it did exist, only small patches, ethereal in nature.
Why we have such a hard time comprehending that our consciousness will cease is very odd. The comfort that people get from just stating that now it's been created it will exist forever is understandable, even though the logic of that assertion is clearly dubious.
As a non-believer in god-woo, the pointlessness of it all is something that is often at the front of my mind. It hits me at strange times, usually when I'm doing something mundane. I've also had a few relatives die recently which brings attention to it. It's usually "oh my god, what the hell is existing? Why do I exist? Do things exist because I perceive them or do I exists because something else is imagining me? Could it just all vanish at any moment? Why am I cleaning this toilet anyway?"
Before it was born, it did not exist.
It exists now.
It can't comprehend not existing, but it knows that it previously did not exist.
It can't even remember most of the time that it did exist, only small patches, ethereal in nature.
Why we have such a hard time comprehending that our consciousness will cease is very odd. The comfort that people get from just stating that now it's been created it will exist forever is understandable, even though the logic of that assertion is clearly dubious.
As a non-believer in god-woo, the pointlessness of it all is something that is often at the front of my mind. It hits me at strange times, usually when I'm doing something mundane. I've also had a few relatives die recently which brings attention to it. It's usually "oh my god, what the hell is existing? Why do I exist? Do things exist because I perceive them or do I exists because something else is imagining me? Could it just all vanish at any moment? Why am I cleaning this toilet anyway?"
BMWBen said:
There's a hilarious paradox in the human consciousness being able to understand itself not existing:
Before it was born, it did not exist.
It exists now.
It can't comprehend not existing, but it knows that it previously did not exist.
It can't even remember most of the time that it did exist, only small patches, ethereal in nature.
Why we have such a hard time comprehending that our consciousness will cease is very odd. The comfort that people get from just stating that now it's been created it will exist forever is understandable, even though the logic of that assertion is clearly dubious.
As a non-believer in god-woo, the pointlessness of it all is something that is often at the front of my mind. It hits me at strange times, usually when I'm doing something mundane. I've also had a few relatives die recently which brings attention to it. It's usually "oh my god, what the hell is existing? Why do I exist? Do things exist because I perceive them or do I exists because something else is imagining me? Could it just all vanish at any moment? Why am I cleaning this toilet anyway?"
Nail on the head.Before it was born, it did not exist.
It exists now.
It can't comprehend not existing, but it knows that it previously did not exist.
It can't even remember most of the time that it did exist, only small patches, ethereal in nature.
Why we have such a hard time comprehending that our consciousness will cease is very odd. The comfort that people get from just stating that now it's been created it will exist forever is understandable, even though the logic of that assertion is clearly dubious.
As a non-believer in god-woo, the pointlessness of it all is something that is often at the front of my mind. It hits me at strange times, usually when I'm doing something mundane. I've also had a few relatives die recently which brings attention to it. It's usually "oh my god, what the hell is existing? Why do I exist? Do things exist because I perceive them or do I exists because something else is imagining me? Could it just all vanish at any moment? Why am I cleaning this toilet anyway?"
It’s part of the ‘human condition’ to think that we, as one single being of flesh and electrical impulses are so damn important in the universe that part of us will continue forever in some kind of afterlife, it’s mental really.
I do like the idea of energy being constant, that the energy you use and expel is ever gone... this text had got me trough some tough times...
http://thankgodforevolution.com/node/1960
‘According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly.’
julian64 said:
Perhaps it simply comes down to the use of the word re-incarnation in this context, but I think it fits both.
Digested from the inside out by our own microbiota with the resulting nutrient soup absorbed by other living organisms? A pretty nihalistic interpretation of the concept of ‘reincarnation’ IMO. Not sure it can be equated. Butter Face said:
‘According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly.’
Just to be a proper pedantic type on this.... 
Although the 'law' of Conservation of energy, applies to our immediate scale of the universe. This 'law' starts to break down on the large scale.
Laws of physics generally are to suit our local universe whereby such laws have been developed due to observation, experiment and testing on things we can reasonably test as technology allows.
Energy is not conserved however when light, for example, is red-shifted over long distances due to the expansion of the universe.
During my hippy weed smoking days i used to love a guy called Alan Watts, he was a great speaker and did quite a good job of bringing across what only a lot of mushrooms could. A lot of what i took away from it was that we cannot remember life before birth/conception so surely death is pretty much the same, theres a game called SOMA that i quite enjoyed for the thinking it provoked and the idea of "continuity" of existence, when you cease to be is it all fade to black or does it carry on. Plus you can also see children as a way of life after death, surely that is natures way of living forever.
Anyhow enough of that stoner cliche crap, as others have said science will never be able to do this topic, this is the region of the spiritualist and it's where all the stereotypical hallucinogenic drug trips go best to explain if you don't have a bad trip. Far eastern religious ideas of re-incarnation all that seem to do a better job of explaining whats next and coming close to a true scientific idea of death than Abrahamic eternal punishment/reward.
Anyhow enough of that stoner cliche crap, as others have said science will never be able to do this topic, this is the region of the spiritualist and it's where all the stereotypical hallucinogenic drug trips go best to explain if you don't have a bad trip. Far eastern religious ideas of re-incarnation all that seem to do a better job of explaining whats next and coming close to a true scientific idea of death than Abrahamic eternal punishment/reward.
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