Spending - "Live within your means" or "you only live once"
Discussion
A bit of a conundrum for many people - the choice of living within your means, spending and saving wisely based up on your income, living in minimal debt and not relying on the taxpayer etc.....vs..... you only live once, why save when you can spend and be happy, I could die tomorrow, rack up debt and die with nothing in the bank etc.
Most people consider the conundrum and then find a balance somewhere in between... but I think there are many who these days will traverse to one end of the spectrum or the other.
The question is, is there a smart position on the spectrum to live one's life based on the usual list below ?
Single
Married
Married with kids
Most people consider the conundrum and then find a balance somewhere in between... but I think there are many who these days will traverse to one end of the spectrum or the other.
The question is, is there a smart position on the spectrum to live one's life based on the usual list below ?
Single
Married
Married with kids
The problem with living each day as if it is your last is paying the credit card bill each month 
Having a lot of debt (even unsecured) is a hell of a burden and people can easily fall into debt because they simply did not change their lifestyles quickly enough to reflect a change in circumstance (e.g. failed relationship, job loss etc.)
So whilst living within your means may be fine one day - it may suddenly turn into living beyond your means through little fault of your own.
My 2p worth. You do only live once but remember living with a debt monkey on your back isn't much fun.
Having a lot of debt (even unsecured) is a hell of a burden and people can easily fall into debt because they simply did not change their lifestyles quickly enough to reflect a change in circumstance (e.g. failed relationship, job loss etc.)
So whilst living within your means may be fine one day - it may suddenly turn into living beyond your means through little fault of your own.
My 2p worth. You do only live once but remember living with a debt monkey on your back isn't much fun.
One of the reasons I'm asking this is because at the weekend we went out for a meal and overheard this couple endlessly going on about their debt and wondering where they can find money for x,y and z. (They had loud voices and seemingly little 'face')
Their kids needed new toys and clothes, she needed a holiday, he needed a new car etc. etc.
Both of them kept saying they 'deserved' new things and he was saying it was his only one life and that he had to get a BMW otherwise 'it will never happen'.
I don't know if its just the media wishing to create stories, but it often reads that society is made up of many more of the 'live now, forget the consequences' brigade than the 'live within means' people.
But also, given that one does indeed only live once, is it rational to spend, live, enjoy.....then 'deal' with the debt later, even if you were to know that's not going to be possible.?
(After all the UK has the good old social safety net doesn't it - and also in many cases a use of "the bank of parents")
Their kids needed new toys and clothes, she needed a holiday, he needed a new car etc. etc.
Both of them kept saying they 'deserved' new things and he was saying it was his only one life and that he had to get a BMW otherwise 'it will never happen'.
I don't know if its just the media wishing to create stories, but it often reads that society is made up of many more of the 'live now, forget the consequences' brigade than the 'live within means' people.
But also, given that one does indeed only live once, is it rational to spend, live, enjoy.....then 'deal' with the debt later, even if you were to know that's not going to be possible.?
(After all the UK has the good old social safety net doesn't it - and also in many cases a use of "the bank of parents")
Atomic12C said:
But also, given that one does indeed only live once, is it rational to spend, live, enjoy.....then 'deal' with the debt later, even if you were to know that's not going to be possible.?
(After all the UK has the good old social safety net doesn't it - and also in many cases a use of "the bank of parents")
If anyone feels brave enough to rely on either of those options, then they should go for it. Just don't expect anything other than a cardboard box if the social safety net doesn't work, and if you suddenly find those in charge of the bank of parents actually adopted a similar attitude that you did - i.e. it turns out they have feck all to bail you out with.(After all the UK has the good old social safety net doesn't it - and also in many cases a use of "the bank of parents")
Providing people are happy with the potential consequence then fine with me.
At 39 I feel concerned that I still have a 50% LTV mortgage on my house, and no other debts or credit cards, so I guess I'm leaning towards the opposite end of the scale.
If you have some proper savings (rather than a few hundred left over in the current account each month) then debt doesn't have to be unmanageable if you can afford a period out of work and still service the debt. If you are taking out loans to service just your normal financial commitment then something has gone terribly wrong.
Obviously it is (usually but not always) cheaper and safer to save up and pay cash for everything.
Looking at it the other way there are certain people who take saving too far and drive round in a 30 year old econobox that they service themselves using oil recycled from the local chippy and fashion new parts from templates they developed. Who would count their cornflakes each morning, refuse to go on holiday unless its making them money, live of bulk bought ramen, and generally live like a proper miserable, joyless, miser.
Obviously it is (usually but not always) cheaper and safer to save up and pay cash for everything.
Looking at it the other way there are certain people who take saving too far and drive round in a 30 year old econobox that they service themselves using oil recycled from the local chippy and fashion new parts from templates they developed. Who would count their cornflakes each morning, refuse to go on holiday unless its making them money, live of bulk bought ramen, and generally live like a proper miserable, joyless, miser.
The thing is, does the pleasure these people get from eating out, going on holiday or owning things, outweigh the effort required to earn the money (and interest) to pay it back.
The thing about debt is it is all too easy to sign a finance agreement. The guy in your example who thinks he needs a BMW to prove he is a success in life, would he buy that car if he had saved the money and saw the cash on the desk? Doubt it very much.
Personally I live too far within my means for most people but that is what makes me happy. Having no debt (other than a mortgage) allows me to sleep at night and having a decent amount of cash saved up means I don't worry about losing my job.
I have a £100 phone, 5 year old laptop and drive an 11 year old car. I have had the latest phone, brand new laptops and brand new cars and after a month once the novelty has worn off it feels no different. I actually prefer to have things I don't care about as if they get damaged or break I just go and get another one.
I know lots of people who live paycheque to paycheque and I can think of nothing I would be prepared to own to warrant being in that position.
The thing about debt is it is all too easy to sign a finance agreement. The guy in your example who thinks he needs a BMW to prove he is a success in life, would he buy that car if he had saved the money and saw the cash on the desk? Doubt it very much.
Personally I live too far within my means for most people but that is what makes me happy. Having no debt (other than a mortgage) allows me to sleep at night and having a decent amount of cash saved up means I don't worry about losing my job.
I have a £100 phone, 5 year old laptop and drive an 11 year old car. I have had the latest phone, brand new laptops and brand new cars and after a month once the novelty has worn off it feels no different. I actually prefer to have things I don't care about as if they get damaged or break I just go and get another one.
I know lots of people who live paycheque to paycheque and I can think of nothing I would be prepared to own to warrant being in that position.
I dated a girl for about 9 months who did live like this. she had a good job, but the debt she had on cars, loans, big mortgage and everything else meant there was nothing left to play with and just no joy in living her life. If I'd have decided to settle with her, all I would have done was to have ended up clearing debt with my "capital" if you like, if we'd have had a life together. then what ?, she'd have continued. having a new car, new motorbike and all the rest of it might be ok: its not if its all on the never never and you can't afford to run it all. but she lived for the moment and was like a magpie attracted to new shiny stuff.
so she had to go.
so she had to go.
The Ferret said:
If anyone feels brave enough to rely on either of those options, then they should go for it. Just don't expect anything other than a cardboard box if the social safety net doesn't work, and if you suddenly find those in charge of the bank of parents actually adopted a similar attitude that you did - i.e. it turns out they have feck all to bail you out with.
Providing people are happy with the potential consequence then fine with me.
At 39 I feel concerned that I still have a 50% LTV mortgage on my house, and no other debts or credit cards, so I guess I'm leaning towards the opposite end of the scale.
My uncle spent every penny he earned his whole life and is now retired with no house, pension or savings. Yes there is a safety net, but that safety net is currently living in a council provided bedsit on a rough council estate with only the state pension to live on.Providing people are happy with the potential consequence then fine with me.
At 39 I feel concerned that I still have a 50% LTV mortgage on my house, and no other debts or credit cards, so I guess I'm leaning towards the opposite end of the scale.
My parents are both coming up to retirement and have just finished renovating their bungalow in a lovely village and are planning all the holidays they are going on.
The difference is my uncle has zero say in where or how he lives anymore. I know which camp I would rather be in.
Like you, at the age of 44 I am more concerned about paying off my mortgage than than anything else.
There's a lot of macho bulls
t about this but the reality is that even if you try fairly hard, you're still going to typically live into your 60s. It's all about balance. I like all-you-can-eat buffets, ale and whisky, but keep things sane. Similarly for my money - I don't want to end up living in poverty for the last decade or more of my life. I suppose you could opt to commit suicide at 50 (if you deem 50 to be old or run out of funds by then/run up a suitably large debt) - paracetamol is only about 20p in Aldi. At 46, I don't feel like I'd want to be ending my life in 4 years' time, though...
t about this but the reality is that even if you try fairly hard, you're still going to typically live into your 60s. It's all about balance. I like all-you-can-eat buffets, ale and whisky, but keep things sane. Similarly for my money - I don't want to end up living in poverty for the last decade or more of my life. I suppose you could opt to commit suicide at 50 (if you deem 50 to be old or run out of funds by then/run up a suitably large debt) - paracetamol is only about 20p in Aldi. At 46, I don't feel like I'd want to be ending my life in 4 years' time, though...Joey Deacon said:
Personally I live too far within my means for most people but that is what makes me happy. Having no debt (other than a mortgage) allows me to sleep at night and having a decent amount of cash saved up means I don't worry about losing my job.
I have a £100 phone, 5 year old laptop and drive an 11 year old car. I have had the latest phone, brand new laptops and brand new cars and after a month once the novelty has worn off it feels no different. I actually prefer to have things I don't care about as if they get damaged or break I just go and get another one.
You sound very similar to me.I have a £100 phone, 5 year old laptop and drive an 11 year old car. I have had the latest phone, brand new laptops and brand new cars and after a month once the novelty has worn off it feels no different. I actually prefer to have things I don't care about as if they get damaged or break I just go and get another one.
Although I am probably considered "careful with my money", I dont actually miss out on owning things I enjoy or on having good experiences. I just don't spend a lot doing them and enjoy maintaining things myself. I'm also keen to volunteer to help out to allow others to enjoy things.
Eating out expensively & frequently, drinking heavily in expensive bars, paying hundreds of pounds per month for a car(as status symbol/I'm worth it) -as I don't need to- or paying £100/0s for a watch or non-functional clothes just don't seem like good use of money to me.
What I own doesn't define me or my status in life.
If the car or a household white goods item breaks I can repair it or buy a replacement with cash.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 16th April 15:26
The thing that scares me the most is retirement. Having an even fairly basic income in retirement means saving a pension pot of circa £500k in today's money. I am very much looking forwards to my retirement (I'm only 42) but I don't want to be regretting not saving now for a decent standard of living when I'm 60+.
I'd say the trick is to learn to recognise status symbols when you see them and learn to despise them and pity the poor buggers who get sucked in. Also recognise that an awful lot of pleasure, and indeed confidence, comes from knowing how stuff works and how to fix it. Who gets more pleasure and satisfaction; the bloke who builds a caterfield, or someone who buys a new up-market car? (There are plenty of good reasons for buying an up-market car, but stretching yourself financially because you think it'll be self-validating is not one of them.) Other money saving tips; almost anything described as "luxury" or "exclusive" is valueless tat, particularly large or chain hotels.
In a weird way I envy people who can be in debt and not worry about it.
I had a an employee who was rumoured to be in debt to the tune of £20k before we mention the mortgage.
But at the same time her hubby was cutting his working hours (due to ill health) they were remortgaging to continue a massive house refurbished, and she embarked on having a third child.
I would have been worried sick.
I had a an employee who was rumoured to be in debt to the tune of £20k before we mention the mortgage.
But at the same time her hubby was cutting his working hours (due to ill health) they were remortgaging to continue a massive house refurbished, and she embarked on having a third child.
I would have been worried sick.
I think people should always try to live frugally at least once in their lifetime. Once they see how easy it is to save and spend less then when they have debts they may realise they can pay them off oneday. I think too many people think they 'can't' do it. They can't have an older car, or not have the latest phone or the latest clothes etc etc.
Depends on how much actual happiness you get from spending the money. For most people it's a short hit of happiness followed by a return to crushing disappointment when they realise that it hasn't changed anything fundamental. They're still miserable.....
As the Stoics pointed out "if you can't be happy with nothing, then you'll never be happy with anything"
Take pleasure in the little things and you'll always be happy - that's what I tell my wife anyway
As the Stoics pointed out "if you can't be happy with nothing, then you'll never be happy with anything"
Take pleasure in the little things and you'll always be happy - that's what I tell my wife anyway
For us its fairly simple. Always live within our means but also try to enjoy life where possible.
We intend to reach a point (fairly soon) where our only debt will be a mortgage, my car and my wife's car. This may not be acceptable to some but for us it's perfectly fine.
My wife's car/family car will most likely be PCP as it will be nice to have a new car all the time that has a warranty. My car will be a toy and I will always own 80%-90% of the car so if need be I can sell it to realise the money.
As well as doing this we will be saving for the future, putting money aside each month for our daughter and looking to invest in a second property at some stage. One key things for us is not taking out finance on other items (items not stated above) such as watches, holidays etc
Stu
We intend to reach a point (fairly soon) where our only debt will be a mortgage, my car and my wife's car. This may not be acceptable to some but for us it's perfectly fine.
My wife's car/family car will most likely be PCP as it will be nice to have a new car all the time that has a warranty. My car will be a toy and I will always own 80%-90% of the car so if need be I can sell it to realise the money.
As well as doing this we will be saving for the future, putting money aside each month for our daughter and looking to invest in a second property at some stage. One key things for us is not taking out finance on other items (items not stated above) such as watches, holidays etc
Stu
I plan to work 'til I drop. (Not because love it I might add, but because it gives me something I feel I need that hobbies don't provide.)
As such, I spend pretty much what I like as does my wife.
We have a target savings amount annually and usually get somewhere near that. It would probably allow us to retire in comfort in our late fifties.
Not fussed about paying off the mortgage.
Not planning on kids.
Eat well, drink well, holiday, socialise, be merry.
Obviously, having kids would change everything...
Late thirties both of us btw.
Eta. I'm not saying this will make anyone happy - I've been a miserable bd for decades but my wife is as zen as can be. Yet outwardly we have pretty much the same life.
As such, I spend pretty much what I like as does my wife.
We have a target savings amount annually and usually get somewhere near that. It would probably allow us to retire in comfort in our late fifties.
Not fussed about paying off the mortgage.
Not planning on kids.
Eat well, drink well, holiday, socialise, be merry.
Obviously, having kids would change everything...
Late thirties both of us btw.
Eta. I'm not saying this will make anyone happy - I've been a miserable b
d for decades but my wife is as zen as can be. Yet outwardly we have pretty much the same life.Edited by freenote on Monday 16th April 16:22
On the spending dial, I would say my needle is pointed to the 'you only live once' direction, but its not fully that way. I put money away for a pension every month (been doing that since my early 20's) simply because someone said to me its a good idea and I'd hardly notice not having the money. That turned out to be great advice, and at 41 years old now, I don't even need to save anymore pension money as I've got enough built up already. I still put money in though as it would be foolish not to, especially considering my employers puts in a big whack too.
After that though - its fair game - lets enjoy whats available. Invested in a really good home AV set up at home, I pick up my new lease car on Wednesday, just back from Dubai last week which is our 4th family holiday in 13 months (Dubai/Florida/Canaries/Disneyland Paris) Probably about £20-£25k blown in those holidays but fk it - the kids are only young once.
Was chatting with a chap who paid his mortgage off and decided to take his kids (late teen's) to Disneyland as a celebration. Kids weren't a bit interested and he can't rewind the clock now. Me, the missus, and the kids will have wonderful memories of those family holidays/experiences and you can't put a price on that st. Hope to have the house paid off in 10 years ish and after that, kids will be up and it'll be a matter of looking at ways to get an early retirement. Its all about balance. Think about the future but don't forget to live the present.
After that though - its fair game - lets enjoy whats available. Invested in a really good home AV set up at home, I pick up my new lease car on Wednesday, just back from Dubai last week which is our 4th family holiday in 13 months (Dubai/Florida/Canaries/Disneyland Paris) Probably about £20-£25k blown in those holidays but f
k it - the kids are only young once. Was chatting with a chap who paid his mortgage off and decided to take his kids (late teen's) to Disneyland as a celebration. Kids weren't a bit interested and he can't rewind the clock now. Me, the missus, and the kids will have wonderful memories of those family holidays/experiences and you can't put a price on that s
t. Hope to have the house paid off in 10 years ish and after that, kids will be up and it'll be a matter of looking at ways to get an early retirement. Its all about balance. Think about the future but don't forget to live the present.Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff