Coin collectors!!... have I wasted money?! Antique Russian!

[extraT]

Hello,

I was out looking at an antique market today when I came across this Russian coin from 1803… I paid €75 for it which is about £66.

The guy I bought it from claims not to have any knowledge about coins… He said he did an Internet search and the lowest price he could find for this coin (in a terrible condition) was €80 or about £70… (So by that reckoning it should be worth more because it looks in pretty good condition to my untrained eye!)

I purchased it on a punt, figuring if I ever sold it I would at least get my money back or make a nice heirloom for my daughter.

Thoughts and comments (especially on worth) Very much appreciated!



(Last pic is to try and show some of the ware...)

[extraT]

[sc0tt]

I’ve a bag of magic beans if you are interested

[anonymous-user]

I know nothing about the coin, but if the dealer says that the absolute lowest it could sell for (in poor condition) is £70, why is he selling one in good condition for £66?

Did that question not cross your mind?

[dagovernor]

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32319101337.html?tra...

[extraT]

[quote=ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff]I know nothing about the coin, but if the dealer says that the absolute lowest it could sell for (in poor condition) is £70, why is he selling one in good condition for £66?

Did that question not cross your mind?[/quote

I negotiated with him and split the difference. He said €80, I said €70 and we met in the middle of €75. I should also add that I live in the middle of Austria… That makes a difference because we live in such a small place reputations travel quickly… And this has a pretty good reputation locally. But overhear World War II memorabilia, Russian Memorabilia can be found in most antique shops. I have no doubt asked the Coins authenticity, I just don’t know what it would be worth. Hence why I said if I sell it for what I bought it for that’s fine!

[anonymous-user]

extraT]hatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

I know nothing about the coin, but if the dealer says that the absolute lowest it could sell for (in poor condition) is £70, why is he selling one in good condition for £66?

Did that question not cross your mind?[/quote

I negotiated with him and split the difference. He said €80, I said €70 and we met in the middle of €75. I should also add that I live in the middle of Austria… That makes a difference because we live in such a small place reputations travel quickly… And this has a pretty good reputation locally. But overhear World War II memorabilia, Russian Memorabilia can be found in most antique shops. I have no doubt asked the Coins authenticity, I just don’t know what it would be worth. Hence why I said if I sell it for what I bought it for that’s fine!

But a quick google of a good condition 5 Kopek coin shows that it would go for hundreds.

Looks to me like you’ve bought a reproduction coin. Probably worth the scrap of whatever metal it’s made from.

[extraT]

Now I’m home I can try and show the wear a bit better...

[DannyScene]

Russian 5 Kopek coin, theres loads on ebay for around $100

[Nickyboy]

Genuine ones are poorly struck and generally rough, yours is perfectly made and clean. Almost certainly reproduction on a modern machine

[Halb]

I have a silver dollar given to my gran's brother by Elvis
it's not for sale

[ApOrbital]

Will give you a frozen bag of minted peas for it.

[Smiler.]

Try peeling the foil off & eating it.

Not the foil, obviously.

[bongtom]

Smiler. said:

Try peeling the foil off & eating it.

Not the foil, obviously.

Yeah. There might get be some tasty Afghans underneath!

[JulianPH]

I've just shown this to my wife (she is Russian) and she says that whilst the turning on the side, the crest and the Cyrillic lettering is all age appropriate (it has two Cyrillic letters that are no longer in use) it does not look genuine.

According to her, the 'full stops' on an original would have more spacing between them and the preceding letter or number, there is a full stop missing after the date and the five small circles around the edge of the coin face (like time markings on a watch) only have one circular line wrapped round the solid circles (when there should be two).

She says she may be wrong as they were badly made and often not struck well. If it was an original it would be worth several hundred pounds (potentially up to a thousand) and it is worth taking it to an expert to find out.

She advises not to pay any more money for such an appraisal though (pretend you are interested in selling it)...

Sorry if I am the bearer of bad news.

[Saleen836]

Have you weighed the coin?
A quick google will tell you what the weight should be, I know this might not be difinitive as a lot of fakes are very good and made to weigh as a genuine coin

[extraT]

JulianPH said:

I've just shown this to my wife (she is Russian) and she says that whilst the turning on the side, the crest and the Cyrillic lettering is all age appropriate (it has two Cyrillic letters that are no longer in use) it does not look genuine.

According to her, the 'full stops' on an original would have more spacing between them and the preceding letter or number, there is a full stop missing after the date and the five small circles around the edge of the coin face (like time markings on a watch) only have one circular line wrapped round the solid circles (when there should be two).

She says she may be wrong as they were badly made and often not struck well. If it was an original it would be worth several hundred pounds (potentially up to a thousand) and it is worth taking it to an expert to find out.

She advises not to pay any more money for such an appraisal though (pretend you are interested in selling it)...

Sorry if I am the bearer of bad news.

Thanks for taking the time to ask your wife (and to everyone else here who has taken the time to reply )

Interesting that you mention the missing dot. I was watching a YouTube video about his coin, and there are six (I think) variants of the coin, to give you an example if A and B (heads and tails) were the “original” design, the following minted coin might have design C (for a new head) and and B with the old tails... make sense? If not the. Just search for my coin on YouTube, the video is about 14 mins long. My point is, not all variants had the same design and the points were missing in some of them according to the YouTube video.

RE the weight: I’ve not weighed it yet, but I can tell you it’s “weighty” That is to say it is what one would expect. It also does fee like “money” if that makes sense (if you’ve ever handled a forged £1 you can tell the difference it doesn’t feel right and doesn’t sound right when it’s rattling in change)

RE: Imperfections - there are a few that can and can’t be seen in the picture. For example, to my eyes, the five looks off centre (perhaps it’s not but my dodgy eyes! There is a definite stress from the “E” to the dividing line on the same side as the 5. Looking closely at the circles bordering the coin, they are often not centric, the distances between them are uneven at points (on the same side as the double headed eagle between the points at the 3oclock and 5oclock positions is probably where this is most noticeable) there are other imperfections that perhaps can’t be seen as clearly because of the thumbsnap upload to these forums, but viewing the same pictures on my iPhone and in real life, they can clearly be seen.

Like I said, I don’t doubt it’s genuine. It’s hard to explain really, but where we live it’s an old fashioned kind of place, business done on a hand shake, front doors left open etc... reputation counts for a lot. If you get stuck with a bad reputation your business can be ruined. Coupled with the feel of the coin... I believe it’s genuine.

BUTI’ll be in Salzburg in two weeks, I’ll take the coin to a a shop there which specialises in antiques and see what they say (and I’ll take the advice about making out as if I’m going to sell it!) if it turns out to be fake, I’ve not broken the bank and makes for a good dinner party story, if it’s the real deal, happy days

[JulianPH]

Good luck, I hope it turns out you have a rare coin. That may be the case.

Keep us updated and all the best!

Julian