Can people live under the radar in 2018?
Discussion
I'm reading a Jack Reacher book at the moment (I know, Dickens it is not) and for those that don't know, the main character is a US army veteran, no fixed abode, no phone, pays cash for everything via regular western union transfer wallet top ups and carries no possessions. Nothing can find him other than trouble which in fact finds him quite a lot.
But I'm curious as to how a 'normal' an existence one could have these days whilst staying fairly anonymous and legal. I'm assuming you can't do much at all without leaving a trail.
I'll emphasise now that this isn't some sort of tin foil hat post, I sold my soul to Amazon, Apple and Google a long time ago and am firmly beyond repair. Simply a matter of curiosity.
But I'm curious as to how a 'normal' an existence one could have these days whilst staying fairly anonymous and legal. I'm assuming you can't do much at all without leaving a trail.
I'll emphasise now that this isn't some sort of tin foil hat post, I sold my soul to Amazon, Apple and Google a long time ago and am firmly beyond repair. Simply a matter of curiosity.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Friday 20th July 13:44
Puggit said:
Was going to mention that in my post. It's a bit of a contrived program but does bring home just how difficult it is to operate undetected. And that is when you're on the run not just trying to get on with a normal existence. For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
Can someone work for cash and not declare it as long they stay under their tax allowance? In which case, can you live without a bank account all together?
ker has written a load of books documenting his every move! Gad-Westy said:
Was going to mention that in my post. It's a bit of a contrived program but does bring home just how difficult it is to operate undetected. And that is when you're on the run not just trying to get on with a normal existence.
For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
Yes, very contrived. For example, the rules say they have to use cash machines. Strangely the website which stated that has vanished. For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
Puggit said:
Gad-Westy said:
Was going to mention that in my post. It's a bit of a contrived program but does bring home just how difficult it is to operate undetected. And that is when you're on the run not just trying to get on with a normal existence.
For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
Yes, very contrived. For example, the rules say they have to use cash machines. Strangely the website which stated that has vanished. For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
I think you could probably do it but not for long periods of time.
Hunted is all fake as they obviously need drama to keep the show going.
I can see winning Hunted would be easy you could get out of sight and leave no trail when getting out the van.
If you wanted to hide away in a hotel then all you'd need is a reasonably good fake ID or passport that gets you into a hotel room and a money card with a balance to pay for everything. It's not hard to find a money card that you can top up with cash. They wouldn't be able to look through bank records to see where you've spent your cash. But thats boring and wouldn't make a very good tv show.
Hunted is all fake as they obviously need drama to keep the show going.
I can see winning Hunted would be easy you could get out of sight and leave no trail when getting out the van.
If you wanted to hide away in a hotel then all you'd need is a reasonably good fake ID or passport that gets you into a hotel room and a money card with a balance to pay for everything. It's not hard to find a money card that you can top up with cash. They wouldn't be able to look through bank records to see where you've spent your cash. But thats boring and wouldn't make a very good tv show.
cbmotorsport said:
Obvious one - where would you live? It's all well and good if you live in a tent or a caravan, but if you want to buy or rent a house you'd need ID, if you want to stay in a hotel you'd need id or a credit card.
I doubt a cheap bedsit or b&b would care. I've always said to the family that if I was in 'Hunted' I would find a farm and offer to work free for lodging. Boring TV, for sure (hence why they prevent it). But the farmer would be grateful for extra hands without really having to fork out
Gad-Westy said:
Puggit said:
Was going to mention that in my post. It's a bit of a contrived program but does bring home just how difficult it is to operate undetected. And that is when you're on the run not just trying to get on with a normal existence. For example, can Mr or Mrs normal buy something online without the purchase being tied to them? Amazon vouchers bought in cash, delivered to a pick up point but I assume a billing address still needed.
Can someone work for cash and not declare it as long they stay under their tax allowance? In which case, can you live without a bank account all together?
TX.
cbmotorsport said:
Obvious one - where would you live? It's all well and good if you live in a tent or a caravan, but if you want to buy or rent a house you'd need ID, if you want to stay in a hotel you'd need id or a credit card.
Renting a room can be simple. Find someone letting a room through gumtree. Turn up looking respectable and offer to pay the rent and deposit in cash.If you pay the rent money in cash on time and cause no fuss I doubt the landlord would ever ask any more questions.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 20th July 20:17
Gad-Westy said:
I'm reading a Jack Reacher book at the moment (I know, Dickens it is not) and for those that don't know, the main character is a US army veteran, no fixed abode, no phone, pays cash for everything via regular western union transfer wallet top ups and carries no possessions. Nothing can find him other than trouble which in fact finds him quite a lot.
But I'm curious as to how a 'normal' an existence one could have these days whilst staying fairly anonymous and legal. I'm assuming you can't do much at all without leaving a trail.
I'll emphasise now that this isn't some sort of tin foil hat post, I sold my soul to Amazon, Apple and Google a long time ago and am firmly beyond repair. Simply a matter of curiosity.
Yes you can live under the radar, but your options will be limited.But I'm curious as to how a 'normal' an existence one could have these days whilst staying fairly anonymous and legal. I'm assuming you can't do much at all without leaving a trail.
I'll emphasise now that this isn't some sort of tin foil hat post, I sold my soul to Amazon, Apple and Google a long time ago and am firmly beyond repair. Simply a matter of curiosity.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Friday 20th July 13:44
You'd have to work and live like a traveller basically (not the "carnival folk" kind of traveller either). Its a lot easier in less developed countries where a lot of transactions aren't entirely electronic and a lot of the economy is still cash. Of course that carries its own dangers, if the Colombian government finds out you're running a bookmaking operation they wont be too pleased. It wont just be a stern letter from HMRC, officer Juan will beat down your door and drag you off (along with helping himself to whatever spare cash/valuable goods you have lying around).
OTOH, it's easier these days to go off the grid, which is a bit different to trying to live under the radar. You can produce your own food, even your own power easily enough these days and as long as you don't fall foul of anything like zoning regulation el govt will leave you alone. They'll still know who you are though.
Given the erm... strong negative sentiment... towards the undocumented, is it something that really appeals to anyone (I mean beyond the Hollywood trope of a puckish rogue on the run from a crime he didn't commit)?
captain_cynic said:
Yes you can live under the radar, but your options will be limited.
You'd have to work and live like a traveller basically (not the "carnival folk" kind of traveller either). Its a lot easier in less developed countries where a lot of transactions aren't entirely electronic and a lot of the economy is still cash. Of course that carries its own dangers, if the Colombian government finds out you're running a bookmaking operation they wont be too pleased. It wont just be a stern letter from HMRC, officer Juan will beat down your door and drag you off (along with helping himself to whatever spare cash/valuable goods you have lying around).
OTOH, it's easier these days to go off the grid, which is a bit different to trying to live under the radar. You can produce your own food, even your own power easily enough these days and as long as you don't fall foul of anything like zoning regulation el govt will leave you alone. They'll still know who you are though.
Given the erm... strong negative sentiment... towards the undocumented, is it something that really appeals to anyone (I mean beyond the Hollywood trope of a puckish rogue on the run from a crime he didn't commit)?
In all honesty I have no particular desire to reduce my 'digital footprint', I'm too used to convenient living and really couldn't be bothered with the hassle but it is often irritating when you're reminded how rapidly your information is circulated. Have a bump in your car, stand by for 100 helpful lawyers to be your new phone friends, probably whilst you're still being cut from the wreckage. Online stuff is worse still. Since I started this thread, I'm now getting sponsored links to army surplus type gear. Never seen them before so I'm assuming it's picking up on some key words from this thread. You'd have to work and live like a traveller basically (not the "carnival folk" kind of traveller either). Its a lot easier in less developed countries where a lot of transactions aren't entirely electronic and a lot of the economy is still cash. Of course that carries its own dangers, if the Colombian government finds out you're running a bookmaking operation they wont be too pleased. It wont just be a stern letter from HMRC, officer Juan will beat down your door and drag you off (along with helping himself to whatever spare cash/valuable goods you have lying around).
OTOH, it's easier these days to go off the grid, which is a bit different to trying to live under the radar. You can produce your own food, even your own power easily enough these days and as long as you don't fall foul of anything like zoning regulation el govt will leave you alone. They'll still know who you are though.
Given the erm... strong negative sentiment... towards the undocumented, is it something that really appeals to anyone (I mean beyond the Hollywood trope of a puckish rogue on the run from a crime he didn't commit)?
LordGrover said:
captain_cynic said:
...is it something that really appeals to anyone (I mean beyond the Hollywood trope of a puckish rogue on the run from a crime he didn't commit)?
Yep. I'd be happy with a smallholding large enough to grow/rear my own food, and clean water. 
I kind of meant the whole trying live under the radar thing, paying for everything in cash, doing oddjobs for cash, keeping names off records kind of thing rather than living off the grid (which has become far easier than it used to be, back when I was a lad, going off the grid meant becoming Amish).
Puggit said:
Yes, very contrived. For example, the rules say they have to use cash machines. Strangely the website which stated that has vanished.
The second season I didn't bother with because of all this. Take all the cash you can out on day 1, find somewhere remote and stay there. Season 2 they said they couldn't stay in one place, they were "on the run" not "off the grid" and that false jeopardy didn't appeal Gad-Westy said:
But I'm curious as to how a 'normal' an existence one could have these days whilst staying fairly anonymous and legal.
The two constraining issues are the words 'normal' and 'legal'.On the assumption that you need to work, you need to prove that you have the right to do so which requires you to prove who you are and that this information is provided to and retained by your employer.
StevieBee said:
The two constraining issues are the words 'normal' and 'legal'.
On the assumption that you need to work, you need to prove that you have the right to do so which requires you to prove who you are and that this information is provided to and retained by your employer.
Could a business individual not simply pay you cash as a contractor, possibly against a paper invoice but you wouldn't need to be an employee as such. I guess it might depend a lot on the line of work but the example above of farm help etc is probably what I imagined. On the assumption that you need to work, you need to prove that you have the right to do so which requires you to prove who you are and that this information is provided to and retained by your employer.
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