English Pride?

[Condi]

One thing I've noticed being north of the border is that Scottish people are very proud of where they come from, their culture, their history. Some of this may be a clever marketing ploy to attract tourists, but they manage to be proud of their heritage without excluding outsiders, or making foreigners feel unwelcome. There is a much better multicultural mix than down South and the country does seem to be more outward facing to the world.

Why has England lost its sense of nationality? Why do people want to dismantle the Royals, when their benefit to the country is many many times the cost to the taxpayer? Why do so few people celebrate St Georges day, and why is the St Georges cross more commonly associated with the far right, bigots, or football hooligans than anything positive?

Is it simply that there are so many foreigners in England that if you live in Sparkhill in Birmingham it feels more Pakistan than England? Are there so many left wing, Corbyn supporting students who have some embarrassment about some of what happened under the Empire that they are ashamed of being born in a place which was once said to be winning the lottery of life? Do people simply not care about their history?

Just an observation.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Those who moan most are usually the least successful in life. People moaning about immigrants, whilst saying that they're going to leave the country, without a sense of irony. I once unfriended an ex work colleague who commented 'there's nothing great about Great Britain any more'. No space for such mouth breathers in my life.

Empty vessels make the most noise.

[Tony1963]

For a long time the English living in England have shunned nationalism. We are patriotic, but excessive flag-waving etc is frowned upon in polite society.

And Scotland is more multicultural than England? Really?

[Turn7]

I think the English generally lack a bit of the passion required to be truly Nationalistic - look at the Italians for eg, the average man here would rather just shuffle on and not want to make a scene...

That, and also the strangers in our own country feeling these days.

These are very broad brushstrokes I know - before the trolls jump out.

Tony ^^ makes a simialr point.

[bitchstewie]

What's it got to do with foreigners or lefties?

[grumbledoak]

The biggest obstacles to our Glorious Communist Future, "comrade" have long been known to be national identity and the nuclear family. It's not a coincidence that both suffered terribly in the twentieth century.

But the left are not wrong in their aims, or their war, comrade! They will be proven right eventually!

Seriously. Well, not the last bit. Next time they will create an even bigger prison and an even bigger pile of dead bodies, otherwise it'll be a sthole of grinding poverty and corruption much as before.

[J4CKO]

The trouble is, its very easy to look like a jingoistic cretin, anyone who has a tattoo with something "and proud" is probably a penis.

So, people tend to be quieter about such things, you can express pride in your country in many ways, by not dropping litter, doing something positive, working hard and generally just being a good citizen who makes a contribution

Not being a tt when you go abroad seems to be a problem for the more overtly patriotic but is a good way to show your pride, by giving a good impression, conducting yourself respectfully when visiting other countries.

[bloomen]

I like the idea of the UK. I'm fond of my own region.

As for England I feel... nothing. I would feel no more compassion for some bloke from Buckinghamshire than one from Dushanbe. I'm glad nationalism is frowned on in the main. It's puerile.

And being proud of being born somewhere means nothing. You'd be just as 'proud' of Turkmenistan if you born there.

[Condi]

bhstewie said:

What's it got to do with foreigners or lefties?

Because is part of the reason for not being so nationalistic the sensitivity towards upsetting those who have immigrated to the country, and their cultures, at the expense of ours? And are those most likely to be vocal about such things often not the foreigners themselves, but the lefties who take up a cause on someone else's behalf?

Maybe my experiences and understanding differ.

[Rollin]

Tony1963 said:

And Scotland is more multicultural than England? Really?

Nowhere near.

[CzechItOut]

I really struggle with this concept of country and identity.

There is a bloke in the town where I live with a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of his face. He is white and English. I cannot think of any conceivable scenario where getting a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of my face would be a good idea. At the same time a lot of my work colleagues are from India. When you get to know them you find that actually they share a lot of similar values, they want to work hard, have good careers, provide for their families, give their kids every opportunity in life and so on.

I have far more in common with an average Indian IT worker than I do with Mike Tyson-style tattoo face, despite us both being born within the same arbitrary geographical boundary.

[Condi]

Rollin said:

Tony1963 said:

And Scotland is more multicultural than England? Really?

Nowhere near.

I never said it was, but it does have a better multicultural mix with people from different places living along side each other rather than segregating into their own areas. EG Sparkhill, Bradford, etc.

[bitchstewie]

Condi said:

bhstewie said:

What's it got to do with foreigners or lefties?

Because is part of the reason for not being so nationalistic the sensitivity towards upsetting those who have immigrated to the country, and their cultures, at the expense of ours? And are those most likely to be vocal about such things often not the foreigners themselves, but the lefties who take up a cause on someone else's behalf?

Maybe my experiences and understanding differ.

I don't think so.

I suspect we're simply a little more understated, as others like J4CKO have said.

Is there anything you want to do that you feel you can't do?

[Antony Moxey]

CzechItOut said:

I really struggle with this concept of country and identity.

There is a bloke in the town where I live with a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of his face. He is white and English. I cannot think of any conceivable scenario where getting a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of my face would be a good idea. At the same time a lot of my work colleagues are from India. When you get to know them you find that actually they share a lot of similar values, they want to work hard, have good careers, provide for their families, give their kids every opportunity in life and so on.

I have far more in common with an average Indian IT worker than I do with Mike Tyson-style tattoo face, despite us both being born within the same arbitrary geographical boundary.

What about the rest of the white English people in the town where you live?

[Melchett1905]

CzechItOut said:

I really struggle with this concept of country and identity.

There is a bloke in the town where I live with a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of his face. He is white and English. I cannot think of any conceivable scenario where getting a Mike Tyson-style tattoo on the side of my face would be a good idea. At the same time a lot of my work colleagues are from India. When you get to know them you find that actually they share a lot of similar values, they want to work hard, have good careers, provide for their families, give their kids every opportunity in life and so on.

I have far more in common with an average Indian IT worker than I do with Mike Tyson-style tattoo face, despite us both being born within the same arbitrary geographical boundary.

So you're judging someone by their appearance because they have a facial tattoo. Now flip that and judge the Indian IT worker in a negative without knowing them but judging him/her on their appearance....oh I do love hypocrisy. Absolutely laughable.

[CzechItOut]

Antony Moxey said:

What about the rest of the white English people in the town where you live?

Obviously, I have only met a small subset of the white English people in the town where I live. Some I get on with, others not so much. Either way, I find it strange that people feel "pride" for being born in the same location as someone else, while at the same time ignoring things which in my opinion are far more important, such as shared values.

[Lucas CAV]

bloomen said:

I like the idea of the UK. I'm fond of my own region.

As for England I feel... nothing. I would feel no more compassion for some bloke from Buckinghamshire than one from Dushanbe. I'm glad nationalism is frowned on in the main. It's puerile.

And being proud of being born somewhere means nothing. You'd be just as 'proud' of Turkmenistan if you born there.

Indeed.
Truly bizarre to be proud of where you were born rather than your achievements and successes.

[LimaDelta]

I think there is a resurgence in 'English pride'. Local churches proudly fly the St Georges Cross near us, but there is no doubt there are sadly some unpleasant connotations, probably down to the perceived link with football violence in recent decades. When an MP of the party professing to represent the 'working classes' of the country posts sneering messages about English pride ( Did Labour's Emily Thornberry cause Brexit? ), it perhaps goes some way to explaining why there has been such a backlash against the ruling classes in England.

I consider myself a patriotic sort, and living in Scotland as a young student it was immediately apparent that they took that sort of thing way more seriously than your average English man or woman. Perhaps then (late 1990s) they were all just whipped up into a braveheart fever over the devolution referendum?

Condi said:

Are there so many left wing, Corbyn supporting students who have some embarrassment about some of what happened under the Empire that they are ashamed of being born in a place which was once said to be winning the lottery of life? Do people simply not care about their history?

Being ashamed or embarrassed of something which happened hundreds of years ago and in which you had no personal involvement creating, is just as ridiculous as being overly 'proud' of the same shared heritage which you also had no personal involvement in creating.

Essentially, 'Rhodes must fall' is the SJW equivalent of the bulldog-tattooed 'ENGERLAND!' white van man. Polar extremes, but equally ignorant of the accidents of fate which brought us to this point in time.

[Slagathore]

Melchett1905 said:

So you're judging someone by their appearance because they have a facial tattoo. Now flip that and judge the Indian IT worker in a negative without knowing them but judging him/her on their appearance....oh I do love hypocrisy. Absolutely laughable.

Probably the point that the Indian IT worker doesn't have a tattoo on his face, so doesn't have an obvious negative to judge his appearance on.

You must have some real issues if you can't make that connection!

[PositronicRay]

Is this similar to London Pride?