Hierarchy of 'ism's / discrimination - obesity
Discussion
Following on from the thread about low intelligence, what about obesity, is that fair game for ridicule? There is a school of though surrounding shaming people in to doing something about their weight on the premise of wanting to help, while the subjects themselves say they have been shamed enough and maintain there is little that can be done other than surgery.
I note an account by an employee of Dan Savage, (the podcaster journalist on sex and LGBT matters), who took exception to her boss' frequent articles about fat people, but failed to suppress these despite them being quite offensive. It would seem that the obese don't get much sympathy even from oppressed minorities.
While I'm sympathetic, I would worry about normalising something that takes such a financial toll on the NHS. Common sense may be prevailing in that this isn't something we encourage due to the health implications, but is it fair that being overweight will get you nowhere in the victimhood stakes, due to the perception that you're not the victim and obesity is self inflicted? Conversely I'm hearing people presenting the notion of 'coming out' as fat. In that sense I could see why Savage would take that stance that it's not a condition/ mindset/ persuasion that the individual should choose to embrace.
I note an account by an employee of Dan Savage, (the podcaster journalist on sex and LGBT matters), who took exception to her boss' frequent articles about fat people, but failed to suppress these despite them being quite offensive. It would seem that the obese don't get much sympathy even from oppressed minorities.
While I'm sympathetic, I would worry about normalising something that takes such a financial toll on the NHS. Common sense may be prevailing in that this isn't something we encourage due to the health implications, but is it fair that being overweight will get you nowhere in the victimhood stakes, due to the perception that you're not the victim and obesity is self inflicted? Conversely I'm hearing people presenting the notion of 'coming out' as fat. In that sense I could see why Savage would take that stance that it's not a condition/ mindset/ persuasion that the individual should choose to embrace.
R Mutt said:
98elise said:
Anything that's a personal choice should be open to ridicule.
That could serve as a very loose rule of thumb, but then people claim they can't help being obese.What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
R Mutt said:
That could serve as a very loose rule of thumb, but then people claim they can't help being obese.
What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
Well if you're going to let psycopaths off, what about paedophiles? I doubt they chose to be the way they are.What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
Well you can choose not to act on your impulses, but there's the myth that free will is itself a myth.
Guess I'm playing devils advocate here in asking how liberal you can be in terms of not criticising the way people are, whether that be concerning their appearance, beliefs, or actions.
Guess I'm playing devils advocate here in asking how liberal you can be in terms of not criticising the way people are, whether that be concerning their appearance, beliefs, or actions.
Edited by R Mutt on Wednesday 15th May 12:21
WinstonWolf said:
R Mutt said:
98elise said:
Anything that's a personal choice should be open to ridicule.
That could serve as a very loose rule of thumb, but then people claim they can't help being obese.What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
Obesity and gingers are all we have left to legally hate. We have to put our own anger and disappointment for our own lives onto someone. 
But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
Mr Pointy said:
R Mutt said:
That could serve as a very loose rule of thumb, but then people claim they can't help being obese.
What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
Well if you're going to let psycopaths off, what about paedophiles? I doubt they chose to be the way they are.What about psycopaths? They can't help the way they are. Should they be punished?
NoVetec said:
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
Definitely one aspect from which they should be portraying themselves as the victims. I'm on the verge of fat on the BMI scale i.e. a normal weight for anyone with any muscle but want to eat everything anyone ever posts on social media.Counter-intuitive then to 'embrace' it. I could very plausibly embrace all food rather than exercising will power.
The problem is that ridiculing those who are obese hasn't really shown to yield any positive results. In fact, it could be argued that it makes things worse in some cases.
Obesity is now a very real issue and it is getting worse not better. Having said that, fat acceptance is as detrimental as fat shaming. We should not glamourise obesity in any way as it is an extremely unhealthy way of living.
People who are obese invariably have an unhealthy relationship with food for whatever reason. Obesity is a mental health issue and needs to be treated as such.
Obesity is now a very real issue and it is getting worse not better. Having said that, fat acceptance is as detrimental as fat shaming. We should not glamourise obesity in any way as it is an extremely unhealthy way of living.
People who are obese invariably have an unhealthy relationship with food for whatever reason. Obesity is a mental health issue and needs to be treated as such.
Mothersruin said:
98elise said:
Anything that's a personal choice should be open to ridicule.
100%Rob_R said:
The problem is that ridiculing those who are obese hasn't really shown to yield any positive results. In fact, it could be argued that it makes things worse in some cases.
Obesity is now a very real issue and it is getting worse not better. Having said that, fat acceptance is as detrimental as fat shaming. We should not glamourise obesity in any way as it is an extremely unhealthy way of living.
People who are obese invariably have an unhealthy relationship with food for whatever reason. Obesity is a mental health issue and needs to be treated as such.
Mental health can be helped to an extent through understanding, and acceptance. I can't see how that would translate to obesity.Obesity is now a very real issue and it is getting worse not better. Having said that, fat acceptance is as detrimental as fat shaming. We should not glamourise obesity in any way as it is an extremely unhealthy way of living.
People who are obese invariably have an unhealthy relationship with food for whatever reason. Obesity is a mental health issue and needs to be treated as such.
NoVetec said:
Obesity and gingers are all we have left to legally hate. We have to put our own anger and disappointment for our own lives onto someone.
But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
What about the deaf, after all they won't hear it anyway But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
TurboHatchback said:
Quite. You can't pick the colour of your skin, how short or ugly you are or what turns you on but you do choose how fat to be. Likewise you choose what to wear, what pieces of metal to stick through yourself, what pictures to have someone draw on yourself and what godimaginary friend to devote your life to etc, all perfectly fair subjects for ridicule as long as you're prepared to take as good as you give in return.
At the weekend a friend bumped in to his friend, a very ordinary looking, slightly over weight, under height, middle class blonde lad, except covered from head to toe in tattoos. Were I to have openly expressed my opinion that he looked like an idiot I'd have been a bigot. NoVetec said:
Obesity and gingers are all we have left to legally hate. We have to put our own anger and disappointment for our own lives onto someone.
But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
Most fat people let things slide a bit and then can't be arsed to make the effort to reverse it.But really, it's how the perceived 'discrimination' against the obese is more borne out of practicalities, rather than out and out prejudice. Although of course some will make value judgements when seeing a rather big person.
It's worth considering that a fair whack of the really obese people got to that stage due being psychologically damaged. Couple that with a 24/7 culture of food, delivery apps and fat pride people you get more unhealthy and unhappy people = more obese people.
They're fundamentally lazy. Then comes the self-loathing and unhappiness because they know it's their fault.
I can't respect someone that doesn't respect themselves.
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