The high-street is to blame for their woes. Discuss...
Discussion
Might be a controversial p.o.v. but I was thinking t'other day looking at all the shops that are still there and remembering those that aren't and it struck me that whilst I feel sorry for (some of) those who've lost their jobs the shops/owners themselves have to should a huge amount of the blame.
For years, decades really, we in the UK had to put up with: high prices; surly staff; poor quality goods; no desire to resolve warranty issues... the list goes on. The internet came along and, in the main, the shops didn't react at all (let alone quickly enough) and now the retail trade is crying foul . To be fair they have some valid concerns our glorious councils seem to see them as cash-cows they can just milk and give nothing in return - indeed rather than help with decent pavements, roads, parking they decide to squeeze still harder by charging stupidly high car-parking charges and letting us continue on pavements and roads better suited to third world countries.
Am I being unkind?
For years, decades really, we in the UK had to put up with: high prices; surly staff; poor quality goods; no desire to resolve warranty issues... the list goes on. The internet came along and, in the main, the shops didn't react at all (let alone quickly enough) and now the retail trade is crying foul . To be fair they have some valid concerns our glorious councils seem to see them as cash-cows they can just milk and give nothing in return - indeed rather than help with decent pavements, roads, parking they decide to squeeze still harder by charging stupidly high car-parking charges and letting us continue on pavements and roads better suited to third world countries.
Am I being unkind?
Buster73 said:
When Amazon complete their domination of the retail market and prices and profits surge , maybe just maybe some of you will look back and wish you’d supported your local businesses.
Reap what you sow.
In fairness, despite what I've written, I do try to buy local. 10% higher and I'm generally ok with that - sadly though in some cases it's MUCH higher than that. I'll agree that the once sReap what you sow.
tty service is now much better but it's still lagging behind other countries.Out of curiosity - is this peculiarly British or is this a western phenomenon?
Buster73 said:
When Amazon complete their domination of the retail market and prices and profits surge , maybe just maybe some of you will look back and wish you’d supported your local businesses.
Reap what you sow.
Valid point but if the local high street could offer the level of stock and delivery service that they do, then maybe Amazon wouldn't have grown so big so quick. The World Wide Web has a lot to do with their growth and the decline of the high street, people can get it tomorrow whereas in the high street it might take a couple of days to get it in stock. Those under about 30 yrs of age don't wan't to wait for things, they are conditiond to being able to have it now.Reap what you sow.
Amazon just saw a gap in the market and took their opportunity in both hands and ran with it.
irocfan said:
Might be a controversial p.o.v. but I was thinking t'other day looking at all the shops that are still there and remembering those that aren't and it struck me that whilst I feel sorry for (some of) those who've lost their jobs the shops/owners themselves have to should a huge amount of the blame.
For years, decades really, we in the UK had to put up with: high prices; surly staff; poor quality goods; no desire to resolve warranty issues... the list goes on. The internet came along and, in the main, the shops didn't react at all (let alone quickly enough) and now the retail trade is crying foul . To be fair they have some valid concerns our glorious councils seem to see them as cash-cows they can just milk and give nothing in return - indeed rather than help with decent pavements, roads, parking they decide to squeeze still harder by charging stupidly high car-parking charges and letting us continue on pavements and roads better suited to third world countries.
Am I being unkind?
You have clearly stated the reasons why the local high street retailers are struggling to compete with the huge global tax-avoiding online trading concerns like Amazon. For years, decades really, we in the UK had to put up with: high prices; surly staff; poor quality goods; no desire to resolve warranty issues... the list goes on. The internet came along and, in the main, the shops didn't react at all (let alone quickly enough) and now the retail trade is crying foul . To be fair they have some valid concerns our glorious councils seem to see them as cash-cows they can just milk and give nothing in return - indeed rather than help with decent pavements, roads, parking they decide to squeeze still harder by charging stupidly high car-parking charges and letting us continue on pavements and roads better suited to third world countries.
Am I being unkind?
Hardly a level playing field, is it?
Local councils are slowly strangling their golden egg-laying geese and soon it will be too late.
Hardly the fault of poor local businesses.
Whilst clearly many businesses had a protected market and got lazy the fact they have to pay rates and meaningful U.K. tax means their prices have to reflect this. It's sad when local towns are dominated by costa/William hill/charity shops and have limited independent retailers.
Like most I shop online but make a point of supporting local retailers where possible even when I know they are more expensive.
Like most I shop online but make a point of supporting local retailers where possible even when I know they are more expensive.
glenrobbo said:
You have clearly stated the reasons why the local high street retailers are struggling to compete with the huge global tax-avoiding online trading concerns like Amazon.
Hardly a level playing field, is it?
Local councils are slowly strangling their golden egg-laying geese and soon it will be too late.
Hardly the fault of poor local businesses.
This.... all over..... Hardly a level playing field, is it?
Local councils are slowly strangling their golden egg-laying geese and soon it will be too late.
Hardly the fault of poor local businesses.
1 enterprise pays UK company taxes, high rents, high business rates, and somehow has to encourage customers to make their way into town.
The other funnels all its profits abroad through tax havens, has an out of town warehouse leased quite cheaply, pays much lower business rates, and employs such large economies of scale that they can sell at a lower price than independent shops can buy at.
Hardly difficult to see why the second one can offer cheaper prices to the customer than the first. The ability of global corporations to funnel UK profits abroad without paying any tax means the playing field is totally unbalanced.
Like others here I agree that the playing field is not remotely level, but always support local shops and businesses wherever I can even though this comes at a higher price (because I value them as part of the fabric of my community).
However, there are just some things where buying online is so much more convenient (and these are things that are usually not available locally anyway).
I've often considered that a good business idea would be to set up a website offering a very wide range of items specific to different business and utilising existing logistical delivery infrastructure and then banding these for local business.
This would give local shops and businesses the ability to compete online without having to build such a thing from scratch. Whilst I don't think people would pay the same premium as when buying from a local shop/business, I think they may pay a small addition premium knowing this is going towards keeping their local community shops going.
I could only see this working with independent shops and businesses in close knit areas though, not the general high street.
However, there are just some things where buying online is so much more convenient (and these are things that are usually not available locally anyway).
I've often considered that a good business idea would be to set up a website offering a very wide range of items specific to different business and utilising existing logistical delivery infrastructure and then banding these for local business.
This would give local shops and businesses the ability to compete online without having to build such a thing from scratch. Whilst I don't think people would pay the same premium as when buying from a local shop/business, I think they may pay a small addition premium knowing this is going towards keeping their local community shops going.
I could only see this working with independent shops and businesses in close knit areas though, not the general high street.
Condi said:
This.... all over.....
1 enterprise pays UK company taxes, high rents, high business rates, and somehow has to encourage customers to make their way into town.
The other funnels all its profits abroad through tax havens, has an out of town warehouse leased quite cheaply, pays much lower business rates, and employs such large economies of scale that they can sell at a lower price than independent shops can buy at.
Hardly difficult to see why the second one can offer cheaper prices to the customer than the first. The ability of global corporations to funnel UK profits abroad without paying any tax means the playing field is totally unbalanced.
Why blame business for acting legally to pay less tax? Anyone with an income does exactly the same.1 enterprise pays UK company taxes, high rents, high business rates, and somehow has to encourage customers to make their way into town.
The other funnels all its profits abroad through tax havens, has an out of town warehouse leased quite cheaply, pays much lower business rates, and employs such large economies of scale that they can sell at a lower price than independent shops can buy at.
Hardly difficult to see why the second one can offer cheaper prices to the customer than the first. The ability of global corporations to funnel UK profits abroad without paying any tax means the playing field is totally unbalanced.
Blame the government and local authorities for making the rules.
Ridiculously high rents and rates, high parking charges (Cambidge comes to mind) and internet buying have killed off the independent shops which in turn kill off a high street.
Saw greedy landlords in Saffron Walden kill off the independents in the few years of living there with coffee chains moving in as they were the only ones that could afford it. The place just seemed to lose its charm which was a real shame.
Saw greedy landlords in Saffron Walden kill off the independents in the few years of living there with coffee chains moving in as they were the only ones that could afford it. The place just seemed to lose its charm which was a real shame.
Seventyseven7 said:
Can anyone explain how W.H Smiths is still around and on nearly every high street?
What do they actual sell that’s keeping them going?
They make their money on airport concessions and distribution of magazines/newspapers. They also own the vast majority of their high street stores so their overheads for these are a lot lower than others. Add in minimum staffing levels and they are happy for the stores to tick along making some money just so that they can be the last name left on the high street. Think of them as a glorified corner shop where the majority of their trade is from people buying papers and a bag of sweets.What do they actual sell that’s keeping them going?
NoAdverseDevelopments said:
Seventyseven7 said:
Can anyone explain how W.H Smiths is still around and on nearly every high street?
What do they actual sell that’s keeping them going?
They make their money on airport concessions and distribution of magazines/newspapers. They also own the vast majority of their high street stores so their overheads for these are a lot lower than others. Add in minimum staffing levels and they are happy for the stores to tick along making some money just so that they can be the last name left on the high street. Think of them as a glorified corner shop where the majority of their trade is from people buying papers and a bag of sweets.What do they actual sell that’s keeping them going?
There is a town center car park where I live that has always been free to park with no limitations, sadly parking in it was nigh on impossible due to it being within walking distance to the train station so used by commuters and also employees of town centre business parking all day, the local council didn't apply charges as we all thought they would, what they did was apply a 2 hour free parking limit which has actually increased town center usage now that people can park easily and for free.
It depends what you’re classing as high street.
Chain stores pushed out the independents. The internet is pushing out the chain stores which is fine by me.
Councils certainly aren’t helping in any way though. Since Bristol removed free parking on evenings and weekends I’ve been into town far less than I ever did, I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Chain stores pushed out the independents. The internet is pushing out the chain stores which is fine by me.
Councils certainly aren’t helping in any way though. Since Bristol removed free parking on evenings and weekends I’ve been into town far less than I ever did, I’m sure I’m not the only one.
The main issue seems to be access to parking so you can actually get to the local shops. I used to visit towns quite regularly but over the past few years its declined to almost never going because it's just such a hassle to get through all the one way systems, 20 limits, speedbumps etc.. to reach a carpark, and then the price to park for an hour is ridiculous. And in many places I would need a pocket of change to pay for the ticket, and as everything else now uses cards I rarely have any cash on me.
So I buy everything on Amazon instead.
I would prefer to able to go and wander around the shops and look at stuff as I used to find it quite enjoyable, but it's been made so much of a pain to get there that I just cannot be bothered any more.
So I buy everything on Amazon instead.
I would prefer to able to go and wander around the shops and look at stuff as I used to find it quite enjoyable, but it's been made so much of a pain to get there that I just cannot be bothered any more.
Parking is certainly the biggest issues, around here there’s several towns with free parking and they are really thriving, very few empty units and always busy.
I think the high street will always have a place, I think chains will move out and it will be more like a market with lots of independent businesses selling bespoke things and coffee shops, which if anything is a nicer shopping experience.
Cowbridge is a local town to me, lots of independent shops and coffee shops and restaurants, no empty units, free parking and always very very busy. Only a couple of chains including a Waitrose, Costa, fat face etc.
High streets in poor areas will struggle always because people are poor. If you don’t have the money you can’t spend it. Not rocket science
You have to think why bother going to the high street for generic stuff you can just get from amazon.
I think the high street will always have a place, I think chains will move out and it will be more like a market with lots of independent businesses selling bespoke things and coffee shops, which if anything is a nicer shopping experience.
Cowbridge is a local town to me, lots of independent shops and coffee shops and restaurants, no empty units, free parking and always very very busy. Only a couple of chains including a Waitrose, Costa, fat face etc.
High streets in poor areas will struggle always because people are poor. If you don’t have the money you can’t spend it. Not rocket science
You have to think why bother going to the high street for generic stuff you can just get from amazon.
I have little sympathy for chains and the behaviour of some brands.
Not long along you would have 4 or 5 O2 stores in the same town/street. Why?
Want to buy a Clinique product? Ooh look, it's sold in HoF, Debenhams, this Department Store, that Department Store, and their own store.
Chain restaurants and their incessant openings all based on renting everything - Madness.
Fact is, go from Town A to Town B to Town C and it's an identikit replica.
Not long along you would have 4 or 5 O2 stores in the same town/street. Why?
Want to buy a Clinique product? Ooh look, it's sold in HoF, Debenhams, this Department Store, that Department Store, and their own store.
Chain restaurants and their incessant openings all based on renting everything - Madness.
Fact is, go from Town A to Town B to Town C and it's an identikit replica.
glenrobbo said:
You have clearly stated the reasons why the local high street retailers are struggling to compete with the huge global tax-avoiding online trading concerns like Amazon.
Hardly a level playing field, is it?
Local councils are slowly strangling their golden egg-laying geese and soon it will be too late.
Hardly the fault of poor local businesses.
Indeed, and when we take a step further back - councils are under pressure to find other ways to make up the shortfall of funding after the government reduced subsidies to the councils and capped the rise in council tax.Hardly a level playing field, is it?
Local councils are slowly strangling their golden egg-laying geese and soon it will be too late.
Hardly the fault of poor local businesses.
For example, my local council has started charging for "on-domestic" waste taken to the refuse centre. We have to pay for it one way or the other.
At the end of the day, the funding shortage in councils is akin to the NHS
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