The Imponderability of Desirable Things
Discussion
My favourite watch is clockwork. I would love a hand built car. But my Olympus OM2 with its lenses, motor drive and spare body I haven't looked at since I bought a little digital camera.
How does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
How does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
Because the end product of using a camera is the photos. Not the actual using it or admiring it.
If another device, such as a digital camera, produces those images in a better way, then that will be used instead.
Unless you are a Hipster of course.
A watch is totally different. It doesn’t ‘produce things’. It is there to wear like a piece of jewellery and occasionally tell you the time. As long as it mostly tells the correct time then all is well.
If another device, such as a digital camera, produces those images in a better way, then that will be used instead.
Unless you are a Hipster of course.
A watch is totally different. It doesn’t ‘produce things’. It is there to wear like a piece of jewellery and occasionally tell you the time. As long as it mostly tells the correct time then all is well.
blueST said:
Because having to wind a watch once a day or whatever is not much of an inconvenience, but having to wait two weeks to see if the photo you took today is any good is just a pain.
Yes, I see that but I would say part of the pleasure of owning the watch is having the result of five hundred of highly advanced but now superseded technology, expertise and craftsmanship and all that old malarkey which isn't present in a quartz watch. Why does that no longer apply to owning a lovely old school camera?Maybe a pre-war Leica would do it for me. Honestly, I haven't looked at my Olympus for years.
I'm aghast to think that what I find desirable is simply a reflection of what other people think is desirable.
Lord Marylebone said:
Because the end product of using a camera is the photos. Not the actual using it or admiring it.
If another device, such as a digital camera, produces those images in a better way, then that will be used instead.
Unless you are a Hipster of course.
A watch is totally different. It doesn’t ‘produce things’. It is there to wear like a piece of jewellery and occasionally tell you the time. As long as it mostly tells the correct time then all is well.
Yeah, but, no, but, I have a really battered old Mamod steam engine that can still be persuaded to work that spends most its time on a shelf in the downstairs loo and I like to see it. It makes me smile. I wouldn't park my old camera there. If another device, such as a digital camera, produces those images in a better way, then that will be used instead.
Unless you are a Hipster of course.
A watch is totally different. It doesn’t ‘produce things’. It is there to wear like a piece of jewellery and occasionally tell you the time. As long as it mostly tells the correct time then all is well.
I'm not getting it.
You really aren’t getting it are you?
The sole purpose of a camera is to produce photos.
Whatever camera does that best will be used.
It doesn’t matter what they look like or feel like. I shoot with Sony A7II bodies, and they aren’t attractive in the slightest, and their ergonomics leave a little to be desired.
But they produce great images that can be edited that same day on my laptop, so that’s all that matters.
The sole purpose of a camera is to produce photos.
Whatever camera does that best will be used.
It doesn’t matter what they look like or feel like. I shoot with Sony A7II bodies, and they aren’t attractive in the slightest, and their ergonomics leave a little to be desired.
But they produce great images that can be edited that same day on my laptop, so that’s all that matters.
I've got some beautiful old Nikon's, I bought them as I wanted them, but also was sensible enough to buy them cheap when they came with lenses I wanted for my digital gear. I'd love to use them, but the whole developing thing is a pain.
I also have a few mechanical watches, they are also a pain as they "go flat" it not worn daily, but the hassle factor is minimal. Classic cars are the same, they still work well as a car.
But I do lament the death of film.
I also have a few mechanical watches, they are also a pain as they "go flat" it not worn daily, but the hassle factor is minimal. Classic cars are the same, they still work well as a car.
But I do lament the death of film.
DickyC said:
My favourite watch is clockwork. I would love a hand built car. But my Olympus OM2 with its lenses, motor drive and spare body I haven't looked at since I bought a little digital camera.
How does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
I don’t know much about cameras, but I don’t think the OM2 was ever seen as a mechanical masterpiece ... ? I actually have an OM2 from my Dad! Happy to be corrected!How does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
There seems to be no rhyme nor reason for things we like.
I was going to say that we have feelings for things which are closer to us in operation, but thinking some more I'm not so sure.
I can understand people who love steam trains, they live and breathe, they need feeding and looking after. But then people like diesel trains too and I can't understand that. But they also live, breathe and need looking after....
Same goes for 'things' with personality, like an old car, an old watch perhaps. The more clinical, perfect, maintenance free and reliable they are the easier they are to leave behind. Anthropomorphism? Perhaps.
Life like blow up dolls? Lets not go there
To sum up, I have no idea, for every rule you dream up, someone will break it
I was going to say that we have feelings for things which are closer to us in operation, but thinking some more I'm not so sure.
I can understand people who love steam trains, they live and breathe, they need feeding and looking after. But then people like diesel trains too and I can't understand that. But they also live, breathe and need looking after....
Same goes for 'things' with personality, like an old car, an old watch perhaps. The more clinical, perfect, maintenance free and reliable they are the easier they are to leave behind. Anthropomorphism? Perhaps.
Life like blow up dolls? Lets not go there
To sum up, I have no idea, for every rule you dream up, someone will break it
Edited by 227bhp on Wednesday 1st January 21:53
It's a bit "Old Skool", but I play my guitar through a Fender amplifier that has nothing more than a proper, built-in, spring reverb.
It looks great, has a wonderful warm clean sound, lots of knobs to twiddle, and is loud
I'm sure there are modern "modelling" amps out there that will do the same thing, but I know I wouldn't get the same pleasure as I do plugging in to the Princeton.
It looks great, has a wonderful warm clean sound, lots of knobs to twiddle, and is loud
I'm sure there are modern "modelling" amps out there that will do the same thing, but I know I wouldn't get the same pleasure as I do plugging in to the Princeton.
I think I understand this.
I have a GPO 776 telephone (sort of: https://www.britishtelephones.com/tsa4271.htm ) hooked up by the front door. It is never used and is surpassed by far by the basic iDect cordless phones dotted about. However, I love the sound of the ring and it means that we never miss the phone so it stays.
I have a Sony HiFi from the late 80s that is used for playing records as it sounds good but 4x Amazon Echos for any music you can imagine the rest of the time.
Then there is my wife's series 2 iPod, that sits in a drawer and is never even touched. It should be a design classic as it was the version that really got the iPod into the mainstream but it is forgotten. I think that this is mainly because vinyl was the glorious heyday of music recordings of the past, so I keep that but streaming now is just a version of mp3 without having to download so the iPod is just hassle.
OP, your camera is like our iPod. It was special at the time but newer technology has seen it become a forgotten stepping stone between the more iconic previous iteration and the current trend. Your Olympus fits between the iconic Leicas and the amazing digital cameras of today.
I have a GPO 776 telephone (sort of: https://www.britishtelephones.com/tsa4271.htm ) hooked up by the front door. It is never used and is surpassed by far by the basic iDect cordless phones dotted about. However, I love the sound of the ring and it means that we never miss the phone so it stays.
I have a Sony HiFi from the late 80s that is used for playing records as it sounds good but 4x Amazon Echos for any music you can imagine the rest of the time.
Then there is my wife's series 2 iPod, that sits in a drawer and is never even touched. It should be a design classic as it was the version that really got the iPod into the mainstream but it is forgotten. I think that this is mainly because vinyl was the glorious heyday of music recordings of the past, so I keep that but streaming now is just a version of mp3 without having to download so the iPod is just hassle.
OP, your camera is like our iPod. It was special at the time but newer technology has seen it become a forgotten stepping stone between the more iconic previous iteration and the current trend. Your Olympus fits between the iconic Leicas and the amazing digital cameras of today.
Edited by TwyRob on Wednesday 1st January 23:14
DickyC said:
Olympus OM2 with its lenses, motor drive and spare body I haven't looked at since I bought a little digital camera.
How does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
I had an OM2 myself, various lenses, filters, attachable motor drives etc. Good back in it's day but not on the level of a Hasselblad or similarHow does that add up? It doesn't really does it?
Why isn't my mechanical masterpiece of a camera as desirable as a watch I have to wind or a car I would have to care for like a thoroughbred racehorse?
It did the job though, I'm no photographer but got a few decent captures over the years.
Unless you are hugely downplaying the spec of your "little digital camera"; if you take better photos with that then the OM2 then perhaps a few lessons wouldn't go amiss?
I'm not sure what you're trying to get?
Some things tick our boxes, others don't.
Just because you like one wind-up mechanical thing doesn't mean you must yearn for a steam powered phone.
If you were a camera enthusiast I'm sure you'd use the camera more. You're clearly not. I certainly wouldn't waste valuable time worrying about it.
Some things tick our boxes, others don't.
Just because you like one wind-up mechanical thing doesn't mean you must yearn for a steam powered phone.
If you were a camera enthusiast I'm sure you'd use the camera more. You're clearly not. I certainly wouldn't waste valuable time worrying about it.
My apologies, I've bogged the discussion down using specific examples. I'll try it more generally:
Why are some types of equipment based on old technology more desirable than others?
…..
And back to examples:
I can't imagine a time when I will be oohing and aahing over an all electric car.
I like fast cars, I've driven fast cars and owned fast cars but a trip in a Tesla X - although it was hilarious - didn't fill me with a desire to own one.
In fact, it's more than that. Back with the internal combustion engine, I've driven several Cayman but I wouldn't want to own one as I can't see the engine. How bonkers is that? I like the traditional lifting the bonnet and admiring the architecture of the engine bay ritual.
What is it that could possibly make checking the levels of an Austin Healey 3000 more fulfilling than checking them in a Cayman? For me it would be but why then can't I apply the 'enjoying the rituals' notion to my mechanical camera?
I do understand the move-on-with-your-life type comments but I genuinely think it's interesting.
Why are some types of equipment based on old technology more desirable than others?
…..
And back to examples:
I can't imagine a time when I will be oohing and aahing over an all electric car.
I like fast cars, I've driven fast cars and owned fast cars but a trip in a Tesla X - although it was hilarious - didn't fill me with a desire to own one.
In fact, it's more than that. Back with the internal combustion engine, I've driven several Cayman but I wouldn't want to own one as I can't see the engine. How bonkers is that? I like the traditional lifting the bonnet and admiring the architecture of the engine bay ritual.
What is it that could possibly make checking the levels of an Austin Healey 3000 more fulfilling than checking them in a Cayman? For me it would be but why then can't I apply the 'enjoying the rituals' notion to my mechanical camera?
I do understand the move-on-with-your-life type comments but I genuinely think it's interesting.
Because we like nostalgia.
I'd love an old classic, a Rover P5B or something. Would I want to drive it every day? No.
I have my grandfather's watch, do I wear it every day? No.
I wouldn't mind an old film camera, but would it be anything more than a novelty? No.
Technology has moved on. We generally embrace it. But still like to keep a hand on the past.
I'd love an old classic, a Rover P5B or something. Would I want to drive it every day? No.
I have my grandfather's watch, do I wear it every day? No.
I wouldn't mind an old film camera, but would it be anything more than a novelty? No.
Technology has moved on. We generally embrace it. But still like to keep a hand on the past.
I like to mix the old and new eg, my 90’s Technics amp and 2019 Cambridge speakers, sub and bluetooth device.
I’d do it with my cars if I had the time and the money, something like a 944 built from an empty shell using a 2.5 Busso on throttle bodies and a modern emerald ecu (minus the awful Porsche steering wheel) Just a pipe dream though.
I’d do it with my cars if I had the time and the money, something like a 944 built from an empty shell using a 2.5 Busso on throttle bodies and a modern emerald ecu (minus the awful Porsche steering wheel) Just a pipe dream though.
Because you can understand how they work, they can be repaired by hands and simple tools, and they produce something as good as we have now in many ways.
The workings of a gramophone, mechanical watch, carburetor, simple radio or telephone can all be encompassed in the head of an intelligent and curious individual. An iPhone, Garmin 6X, ECU and 5G can perhaps be understood in a general sense, but you would be hard pressed to build or even repair one from scratch as an individual.
I think this gives a more immediate connection to the 'artifact', a sense that it is direct and tangible rather than obscure and complex.
I have nothing against new technology, but I can relate to an unconscious feeling of powerlessness when you consider the fragile and interdependent jenga pile we now depend upon.
The workings of a gramophone, mechanical watch, carburetor, simple radio or telephone can all be encompassed in the head of an intelligent and curious individual. An iPhone, Garmin 6X, ECU and 5G can perhaps be understood in a general sense, but you would be hard pressed to build or even repair one from scratch as an individual.
I think this gives a more immediate connection to the 'artifact', a sense that it is direct and tangible rather than obscure and complex.
I have nothing against new technology, but I can relate to an unconscious feeling of powerlessness when you consider the fragile and interdependent jenga pile we now depend upon.
andy_s said:
Because you can understand how they work, they can be repaired by hands and simple tools, and they produce something as good as we have now in many ways.
The workings of a gramophone, mechanical watch, carburetor, simple radio or telephone can all be encompassed in the head of an intelligent and curious individual. An iPhone, Garmin 6X, ECU and 5G can perhaps be understood in a general sense, but you would be hard pressed to build or even repair one from scratch as an individual.
I think this gives a more immediate connection to the 'artifact', a sense that it is direct and tangible rather than obscure and complex.
I have nothing against new technology, but I can relate to an unconscious feeling of powerlessness when you consider the fragile and interdependent jenga pile we now depend upon.
By Jove! I believe you're right! My Good Lady's Nissan Leaf may save us money and be ideal for tootling around, but it doesn't inspire nor do any of its foibles make the slightest sense to me, the layman (or a lot of workshop technicians either). My Westfield with its 'clockwork' Ford Pinto engine (carburettors, distributor, un-servoed brakes and steering) holds no fears should it cough or splutter (which it does). I have mainly 1970s and 80s music equipment which I can diagnose and repair as well. It sounds pretty good but I have to get off my arse to adjust it.The workings of a gramophone, mechanical watch, carburetor, simple radio or telephone can all be encompassed in the head of an intelligent and curious individual. An iPhone, Garmin 6X, ECU and 5G can perhaps be understood in a general sense, but you would be hard pressed to build or even repair one from scratch as an individual.
I think this gives a more immediate connection to the 'artifact', a sense that it is direct and tangible rather than obscure and complex.
I have nothing against new technology, but I can relate to an unconscious feeling of powerlessness when you consider the fragile and interdependent jenga pile we now depend upon.
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