Pauper's Funeral for Brother - What should it cost?
Discussion
My brother died on the 20th December. He was diabetic and had his lower leg amputated due to gangrene and mental issues contributed to not taking care of his health properly. He would have been 60 this Friday the 10th.
He was one of three siblings, him, me & our sister and he was the eldest by ten years over me, thirteen over my sister.
No tears have been shed over his passing by my sis & me. He was always the black sheep and we weren't that close due to the age gap and since the passing of our dad in 2013 we have found out he was skimming money from mom's account due to him having access to her PIN.
Mom has been suffering from Dementia for a couple of years or more now and is quite vulnerable (but very stubborn and nasty sometimes!).
On dad's deathbed he warned us about our brother and told us to make sure he didn't know mom had any money left after his passing. We failed to do this. We thought he could help mom with some care and shopping but one day we had a call or letter telling us that mom's bill couldn't be paid. We looked into the reasons why and we found a pattern of ATM transactions. For every £50/£100 withdrawn there would be the same amount withdrawn a few minutes later. It was obviously our brother, he was unemployed and had no cash. Lived with his partner who worked but gave him no money for himself.
It got so bad that the final month of transactions he withdraw about £3000, £1500 in the final week that cleared out mom's account.
We ordered the statements and it adds up to about £15000-£20000 over the five years.
Mom was informed but she didn't want to press charges. We discussed other options and she decided to cut him from her half of her will. He would still be a beneficiary of a third from dad's half, so he will get 1/6th of the bungalow when sold when mom passes (if it isn't sold for care fees). He did not know he was cut out.
A few months later we found out money was missing from the house. We couldn't allow mom to have cash as it kept going missing. In the end, we had to get the police involved and he was cautioned and told to keep away from mom. We also had the witness evidence from one of his daughters who also said he stole money from her house whilst she was on the school run. 'I'll never talk to him again!' was the general attitude from them - obviously, his death has focussed their mind of how much a great father he was to them and the father quotes are out in force on FaceBook...
His family (3 girls, 1 lad, all grown up) are typical 'council'. No savings, loads of tattoos & kids. Smoking all the time etc. Our brother died with zero savings so we thought a government grant would be suffice to give a funeral. They have no savings either but lots of money passes through their hands.
The daughters have asked my sis & I to contribute to the funeral. We have offered to pay for the headstone but my sis & I have agreed between ourselves that we won't give cash. No thanks were rec'd for the offer and we have heard nothing.
Then today we were added to a whatssap group and they have said the funeral will be £3150 and the Directors want £989 up front. They want us to contribute. I have spoken to my sister and we both think they are planning a p!ss up for him as a send off. This was after they all went for a group tattoo session to remember him by.
My sister & I are reluctant to give cash and I wondered what happens for a bog standard funeral paid for by the state? How much should it cost? Are they asking us to contribute to them having a party after he has skimmed so much off mom over the years and been nothing than a constant worry for us and our vulnerable mother?
We are still to hear about the offer of the headstone...
He was one of three siblings, him, me & our sister and he was the eldest by ten years over me, thirteen over my sister.
No tears have been shed over his passing by my sis & me. He was always the black sheep and we weren't that close due to the age gap and since the passing of our dad in 2013 we have found out he was skimming money from mom's account due to him having access to her PIN.
Mom has been suffering from Dementia for a couple of years or more now and is quite vulnerable (but very stubborn and nasty sometimes!).
On dad's deathbed he warned us about our brother and told us to make sure he didn't know mom had any money left after his passing. We failed to do this. We thought he could help mom with some care and shopping but one day we had a call or letter telling us that mom's bill couldn't be paid. We looked into the reasons why and we found a pattern of ATM transactions. For every £50/£100 withdrawn there would be the same amount withdrawn a few minutes later. It was obviously our brother, he was unemployed and had no cash. Lived with his partner who worked but gave him no money for himself.
It got so bad that the final month of transactions he withdraw about £3000, £1500 in the final week that cleared out mom's account.
We ordered the statements and it adds up to about £15000-£20000 over the five years.
Mom was informed but she didn't want to press charges. We discussed other options and she decided to cut him from her half of her will. He would still be a beneficiary of a third from dad's half, so he will get 1/6th of the bungalow when sold when mom passes (if it isn't sold for care fees). He did not know he was cut out.
A few months later we found out money was missing from the house. We couldn't allow mom to have cash as it kept going missing. In the end, we had to get the police involved and he was cautioned and told to keep away from mom. We also had the witness evidence from one of his daughters who also said he stole money from her house whilst she was on the school run. 'I'll never talk to him again!' was the general attitude from them - obviously, his death has focussed their mind of how much a great father he was to them and the father quotes are out in force on FaceBook...
His family (3 girls, 1 lad, all grown up) are typical 'council'. No savings, loads of tattoos & kids. Smoking all the time etc. Our brother died with zero savings so we thought a government grant would be suffice to give a funeral. They have no savings either but lots of money passes through their hands.
The daughters have asked my sis & I to contribute to the funeral. We have offered to pay for the headstone but my sis & I have agreed between ourselves that we won't give cash. No thanks were rec'd for the offer and we have heard nothing.
Then today we were added to a whatssap group and they have said the funeral will be £3150 and the Directors want £989 up front. They want us to contribute. I have spoken to my sister and we both think they are planning a p!ss up for him as a send off. This was after they all went for a group tattoo session to remember him by.
My sister & I are reluctant to give cash and I wondered what happens for a bog standard funeral paid for by the state? How much should it cost? Are they asking us to contribute to them having a party after he has skimmed so much off mom over the years and been nothing than a constant worry for us and our vulnerable mother?
We are still to hear about the offer of the headstone...
Firstly, I'm sorry about your loss regardless of the relationship.
My father passed in February last year and he had a plan with a local funeral directors to cover his costs. The plan was taken out years ago for £2700. The funeral directors said the funeral would have cost about £3300 in today's money but they honored the existing plan so the figures sound right. I'm sure you are not under any legal obligation to pay anything although it's up to you and your family as to whether you think you should or not. I'm not sure how these things are picked up if the family can't or won't pay or if there's no other family to pay.
My father passed in February last year and he had a plan with a local funeral directors to cover his costs. The plan was taken out years ago for £2700. The funeral directors said the funeral would have cost about £3300 in today's money but they honored the existing plan so the figures sound right. I'm sure you are not under any legal obligation to pay anything although it's up to you and your family as to whether you think you should or not. I'm not sure how these things are picked up if the family can't or won't pay or if there's no other family to pay.
That's similar to the price this summer for my mum's, but that included hearse to the crem, coffin, cremation, service at the crem, flowers etc.
Most of that isn't required if you don't want to / can't afford it, I believe the crem will burn and dispose of the ashes for a much lower price (but you don't get to be there/use the chapel/ have a service); I think they do it at a time that's convenient for them when the oven is hot.
There's no requirement for a headstone.
This is where my mum's was
https://www.brecklandcrematorium.co.uk/wp-content/...
Unattended Direct Cremation (No service or music) £500
Attended Direct Cremation (Maximum of 10 persons. No service or music) £600
Most of that isn't required if you don't want to / can't afford it, I believe the crem will burn and dispose of the ashes for a much lower price (but you don't get to be there/use the chapel/ have a service); I think they do it at a time that's convenient for them when the oven is hot.
There's no requirement for a headstone.
This is where my mum's was
https://www.brecklandcrematorium.co.uk/wp-content/...
Unattended Direct Cremation (No service or music) £500
Attended Direct Cremation (Maximum of 10 persons. No service or music) £600
You've done more than enough by offering to pay for the headstone, they've only added you into a whatsapp group purely to ask for cash. Personally I'd reiterate that's what you're willing to do and tell them to contact you when they want that sorting. Other than that it's down to them to pay for anything else. From what you've said I'd say you're being way more generous than you need to be. Then again it sounds like pissing on the grave is being more generous than you need to be.
My reply would be along the lines of:
"As you all know he stole a whole load of cash off our mum and others, we will politely decline to help give him a "send off" and I will be on holiday whenever the funeral happens to be so let me know when I should have the cost of some flowers donated to charity!"
"As you all know he stole a whole load of cash off our mum and others, we will politely decline to help give him a "send off" and I will be on holiday whenever the funeral happens to be so let me know when I should have the cost of some flowers donated to charity!"
i lost my mum at the beginning of November and between me, my brothers and my dad we went for the cheapest we could, within reason, get. Mum hated wasting money so would have been annoyed at spending more than necessary on a funeral - our bill was similar to the OP’s.
Regarding a contribution, I think I’d be inclined to tell the family to FRO were I in the OP’s situation. My dad doesn’t have a great deal put by but he wouldn’t dream of having any of us pay towards mum’s funeral costs.
Regarding a contribution, I think I’d be inclined to tell the family to FRO were I in the OP’s situation. My dad doesn’t have a great deal put by but he wouldn’t dream of having any of us pay towards mum’s funeral costs.
Personally I’d be telling them to FRO
Worth a read here ... https://www.funeralguide.co.uk/help-resources/arra...
And also worth contacting the council - or telling the next of kin to and sort it themselves that way.
Worth a read here ... https://www.funeralguide.co.uk/help-resources/arra...
And also worth contacting the council - or telling the next of kin to and sort it themselves that way.
Cold said:
It's a Midlands thing.
Good call, we’re from Wolves. Where we spake proper...Just heard from the daughter, they aren’t having a plot or headstone. I think they want us to contribute to the whole day which they hope to be a good send off.
I’ve already said we won’t contribute cash.
A good suggestion by another poster is to phone the directors. I may do that.
When he’s all done, I doubt we have any more to do with them all so not bothered about offending .
geeks said:
My reply would be along the lines of:
"As you all know he stole a whole load of cash off our mum and others, we will politely decline to help give him a "send off" and I will be on holiday whenever the funeral happens to be so let me know when I should have the cost of some flowers donated to charity!"
Indeed, a small contribution is all that's needed. "As you all know he stole a whole load of cash off our mum and others, we will politely decline to help give him a "send off" and I will be on holiday whenever the funeral happens to be so let me know when I should have the cost of some flowers donated to charity!"
It's the responsibility of offspring to cover the main cost of a funeral.
However it seems the family has relied on handouts all their lives, so they expect the taxpayer to cover the cost.
If you absolutely must contribute and I can see why you would want to rather than not. Just make a donation to which ever charity is specified direct to the undertakers or place some family flowers on the coffin. Why get drawn into financing the whole day? It's not your call to deal with. Grants can be obtained from the government to help pay for a funeral, its upto them to square that...
https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments
https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments
Could you donate the body to science? I had read that this might only be allowed if the deceased (in their will before death! - obviously) had asked for their body to be so disposed. But worth looking into.
Maybe some ideas here https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/28/fune...
or https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments
If you could get it done for under £1000 perhaps in the interests of family stability it might be better to pay/contribute......
Maybe some ideas here https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/28/fune...
or https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments
If you could get it done for under £1000 perhaps in the interests of family stability it might be better to pay/contribute......
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