Mandatory modern language at GCSE

[vladcjelli]

Our eldest is starting to receive his GCSE options literature, from which it appears he will be forced to study French as a GCSE in place of another subject of his choice.

This seems to stem from whatever the EBacc is, and is some form of government tinkering with the school system that stifles pupils choice in favour of being able to score schools against each other. Does achieving Ebacc help the individual in anyway?

The upshot is that he only gets to actually choose two subjects that interest him. Wouldn’t have been too bad if we’d been able to select which language he studied, as German at least has a use, but they were randomly dropped into German, Spanish or in our case French in the first year of high school. They’re only forcing the kids they expect to be able to achieve a grade to do it.

What are the chances of fighting this stupidity?

[AJB88]

When I was at high school 2000-2005) you started a language in year 7, my side of the year unfortunately were forced to learn french. I asked to do German but was told no, I taught myself instead and then tried to select German GCSE but was told no.

My sister had the same, she ended up doing German as an out of hours lesson and managed to get it as a GCSE.

[Jimmy Recard]

Don’t worry about the GCSEs at all. Just do whatever - they’re immaterial really. Worry about which A Levels they get.

Plus, by the time he’s 16 he’ll be able to tell French people that he goes to the cinema and plays football with his brother

[FredClogs]

I left school in `92 and I'm pretty sure French gcse was mandatory unless you were a special needs kid.

[AJB88]

FredClogs said:

I left school in `92 and I'm pretty sure French gcse was mandatory unless you were a special needs kid.

Nah I dropped languages in 2004 took GCSE's in 2005.

[g3org3y]

We had a choice of language for GCSE, either French or German. I did both (and Russian).

[Jimmy Recard]

I don’t think many good schools would allow you not to take a language GCSE though

[red_slr]

Mid 90s. Selected at random for first 3 years French or German. My class was French. Actual GCSE was optional, so I didn't bother.

[ATG]

Pity he can't choose the language, perhaps, but being required to do at least one foreign language to GCSE is a good thing, surely? It's a pretty basic feature of a rounded education.

[ajprice]

Did my GCSEs in 1990 to 1992, the 3 years before we did French and Welsh, for GCSE we had to pick one to carry on with. I picked French. I didn't pass.

[Scabutz]

Did my GCSEs in 1993-95. A language was mandatory then. I had the choice of German or French.

Chose German. Learnt very little.

Ich bin ein Berliner

[dudleybloke]

FredClogs said:

I left school in `92 and I'm pretty sure French gcse was mandatory unless you were a special needs kid.

I left in '92 and we could choose GCSE German, French or Urdu.
I took German and the teacher, a lovely tall brunette in her late 20's, had such a broad Highland accent that made the Teutonic language so much funnier.

Edited by dudleybloke on Saturday 1st February 23:18

[vladcjelli]

With regards to a language being a basic part of a rounded education, it has been since year 7, everyone has had the opportunity to try it out, now comes the time where kids should be able to select the things that interest them, as its that interest that will carry them through the more rigorous work ahead.
Forcing them to take a subject they don’t enjoy in place of one that they feel passionate about, just because they look like they might be able to get a grade in it, is putting the interests of the school ahead of the interests of the individual. Frankly, if the school burned down tomorrow life would go on. Kids would go to another school. If my son gets turned off by school because he feels disenfranchised doing study he doesn’t enjoy, it could impact him for many years to come.
When kids are being quietly shuffled to one side because they don’t look like they will pass French, and more able students are being forced to do a subject they don’t want to, it feels like kids are being penalised for being good/trying hard.

[Dabooka]

Regarding the language, I had my options in '89 and included a language (French) or two (French and German). Couldn't do German alone and French was not my thing at the time. I was informed this as essential for the common market and I'd be left behind in my employment if I couldn't speak a foreign language.

Anyway, I had a right problem not chosing one but they did relent when the timetable was shown to not block the option. A lot of this is based on timetabling, much more than you may realise, more so since the general reduction in the breadth of curriculum offered in most schools. I'd suggest that you prepare to have a chat and see what blocks on the timetable would allow other options to open up. That is probably your first point to start.

Secondly, the choice of GCSE, along with predicted and actual grades, is actually very important (for the school too) in relation to progression on to A Levels or, should vocational routes be more desirable, the new T Levels. This will be a similar story whichever institution they go to, school 6th form, local colleges etc., although some schools allow a certain amount of latitude to students they know and have a history with.

Finally the most important thing to do is make sure they get a good grade in GCSE English and maths. To anyone reading this with kids at that age do all you can to get at least a four, preferably five, but the higher the better. Poor or missed grades in these subjects will seriously limit future options anywhere including apprenticeship options. I see it all the time where the limiting grades block the options available and can set kids back a year or more quite easily. Parents kick off frequently about it but there's often very little that can be done.

HTH

Edited by Dabooka on Sunday 2nd February 09:27

Edited by Dabooka on Sunday 2nd February 09:28

[ATG]

vladcjelli said:

With regards to a language being a basic part of a rounded education, it has been since year 7, everyone has had the opportunity to try it out, now comes the time where kids should be able to select the things that interest them, as its that interest that will carry them through the more rigorous work ahead.
Forcing them to take a subject they don’t enjoy in place of one that they feel passionate about, just because they look like they might be able to get a grade in it, is putting the interests of the school ahead of the interests of the individual. Frankly, if the school burned down tomorrow life would go on. Kids would go to another school. If my son gets turned off by school because he feels disenfranchised doing study he doesn’t enjoy, it could impact him for many years to come.
When kids are being quietly shuffled to one side because they don’t look like they will pass French, and more able students are being forced to do a subject they don’t want to, it feels like kids are being penalised for being good/trying hard.

Kids have not received a rounded education by the time they start their GCSEs. They have just begun to scratch the surface. They ought to be taking a wide range of foundational subjects that open as many opportunities as possible. They shouldn't be narrowing their focus yet. Given the number of GCSEs that your kid will be taking, how can including French be significantly limiting his options? What is he being stopped from studying?

[vladcjelli]

ATG said:

Kids have not received a rounded education by the time they start their GCSEs. They have just begun to scratch the surface. They ought to be taking a wide range of foundational subjects that open as many opportunities as possible. They shouldn't be narrowing their focus yet. Given the number of GCSEs that your kid will be taking, how can including French be significantly limiting his options? What is he being stopped from studying?

It works like this, the “compulsory” subjects are as follows:

English Lang/Lit
Maths
Combined Science
PSE (inc RE)
PE
Foreign language if selected by the school

It then goes on to say you have four options available to you. Except if you’ve been selected for a language, so then it’s three. Oh, and one of your choices has to be geography or history.

As it turns out then, my son only actually gets two choices of his own.

Bear in mind that the core subjects of science and PE are also optional subjects to study at greater depth, so any pupil who is unsure of their choices might say, “well if I’m doing those anyway, I might as well pick something different, to get a rounded education” thereby losing the opportunity to excel in them.

Then as mentioned earlier by dabooka, if he picks something he really wants to do, timetable clashes might scupper that too!

It’s just so disappointing that at a tricky age for our children to be engaged, instead of getting the kids to buy into their education, we’re taking almost all their choices and control away from them.

[ATG]

I'm surprised PSE and PE are compulsory to GCSE rather than just being subjects/activities that are part of the curriculum but not examined. I'd be more pissed off about that than the French if my kid was unable to take all the subjects that interested him. I'd certainly be annoyed if the kid's expectations of the amount of choice he'd have had been mismanaged.

[Esceptico]

For a while is was compulsory to study at least one foreign language to 16 but I believe the poorer results (compared to easier subjects) was dragging down the exam results nationally and owing to the obsession of proving school standards were improving year on year then that requirement was dropped, with the consequence that pupils studying foreign languages at 16 and 18 have fallen dramatically.

Being able to speak a foreign language should be seen as a basic skill like basic numeracy. Learning a language isn’t hard per se it just takes a lot of effort and rote learning.

[wisbech]

Plus it teaches you a lot about your own language. We take English grammar for granted, so learning another language with different rules makes you realise about the English rules (actually, something like Mandarin then makes more sense than French, as the rules are more different, no inflection, no tenses, no gender makes for a radically different language)

[GT03ROB]

Whilst at school, there was the opportunity to do French from 12. The school however took the view that it was a waste of time teaching French to a lot of pupils if their English was poor. Accordingly you either did French or extra English.

Think that made a lot of sense.