After WW2 - the psychological effects
Discussion
The recent VE-Day flag waving, singing and cake baking got me thinking about what were the long-term impacts on the people involved.
Just because the fighting officially stopped on a particular day how did people cope with peace? not just in the immediate demobbed period but for decades after.
Some books and documentaries have skimmed the issue, anecdotes about nightmares afterwards ect but even in the (very) limited span of my own family my wifes grandfather apparently came back from the navy very unpleasant and more than a little untrustfful having been away from home so long and my grandfather took his life almost 35 years after the end of the war due to the direct consequences of what had happened to him when fighting in north-west Europe.
Just because the fighting officially stopped on a particular day how did people cope with peace? not just in the immediate demobbed period but for decades after.
Some books and documentaries have skimmed the issue, anecdotes about nightmares afterwards ect but even in the (very) limited span of my own family my wifes grandfather apparently came back from the navy very unpleasant and more than a little untrustfful having been away from home so long and my grandfather took his life almost 35 years after the end of the war due to the direct consequences of what had happened to him when fighting in north-west Europe.
Back in 1973 I started a job as a van delivery driver delivering electrical goods to small shops around the Manchester/Lancashire area.
When I started, I was warned that a certain shopkeeper would not entertain anything in his shop that was Japanese as he had been traumatised by his experience on The Burma death railway. I used to get on very well with him, he often made me a cup of tea etc.
One day, I called into his shop with a small box of stuff, valves, cassette tapes etc, but the warehouse lads who had packed the order had put the items in an empty Sharp electronics box.
When I walked into the shop and gave him a cheery hello, he spotted the box, saw red, and started throwing stock off his shelves at me, transistor radios etc. I thought wtf! and beat a hasty retreat....
Bear in mind this was nearly 30 years after the end of the war.
My father was the same. Wouldn't buy Japanese anything. He was in India for the duration and probably never saw a Jap, but it was the stigma.
We had a neighbour who'd been a Jap p.o.w and as kids we were told not to play outside his house and make any noise or fuss. It was 2 doors away and in the 16 years I lived there I never saw him. No idea what he looked like. Presumably he was a mental basket-case.
My father was like so many of that generation - never talked about his experiences. Did his bit, came home, and tried to build a new life. There were three kids in oiur family but we never heard wartime reminiscences except from my mum who would occasionally comment on something to do with the 8th Air Force who would take over Norwich on a Saturday night. It was only in his last few years that my father opened up a bit, and explained about his time there. Less sentimentality in those days - people rolled up their metaphorical sleeves and got on with it.
We had a neighbour who'd been a Jap p.o.w and as kids we were told not to play outside his house and make any noise or fuss. It was 2 doors away and in the 16 years I lived there I never saw him. No idea what he looked like. Presumably he was a mental basket-case.
My father was like so many of that generation - never talked about his experiences. Did his bit, came home, and tried to build a new life. There were three kids in oiur family but we never heard wartime reminiscences except from my mum who would occasionally comment on something to do with the 8th Air Force who would take over Norwich on a Saturday night. It was only in his last few years that my father opened up a bit, and explained about his time there. Less sentimentality in those days - people rolled up their metaphorical sleeves and got on with it.
The World at War has a programme which covers the post war recovery.
Author Stephen Ambrose suggested that only America benefited as they were un-bombed and emerged wealthier and with a huge production capability while Russia lost N-million dead. The UK ended up broke and had to face austerity with a massive debt to repay.
On a personal level, one guy they interviewed mentioned that immediately after the war he attended a local Council meeting and the small talk angered him, having experienced being away for 6 years when living had been just a life or death experience. This anger caused him to become very intense and intolerant and he admitted he was not a nice person to be with for at least 12 months after.
The 50's introduced the concept of 'the angry young man' - actors, authors, etc., or just the young rebels which I suggest was a spin off from the earlier war period.
Author Stephen Ambrose suggested that only America benefited as they were un-bombed and emerged wealthier and with a huge production capability while Russia lost N-million dead. The UK ended up broke and had to face austerity with a massive debt to repay.
On a personal level, one guy they interviewed mentioned that immediately after the war he attended a local Council meeting and the small talk angered him, having experienced being away for 6 years when living had been just a life or death experience. This anger caused him to become very intense and intolerant and he admitted he was not a nice person to be with for at least 12 months after.
The 50's introduced the concept of 'the angry young man' - actors, authors, etc., or just the young rebels which I suggest was a spin off from the earlier war period.
BryanC said:
The 50's introduced the concept of 'the angry young man' - actors, authors, etc., or just the young rebels which I suggest was a spin off from the earlier war period.
Such is the distance of time now from the events its easy to underestimate the level of change and disruption, how many of those 'angry young men' spent a chunk of childhood without a father, disrupted schooling, evacuated. maybe even ending up with siblings that were maybe not 'full' siblings....My Father had a lot of stories from his experiences in WW2.
From blowing bridges in Brussels to slow the Germans as we headed to Dunkirk.
His best mate died in his arms during the retreat.
His fun times in North Africa drinking Absinthe, sabotaging stuff and getting his hair cut by a local.
Hiding in a French forest and finding, "Parachutiste anglais", followed by an arrow, painted on the road at a junction.
Pulling the body of a girl of ca.,14 years out of a river and comforting her limp body.
Getting taken prisoner at Arnhem and being marched all the way to the Czech border to Stalag VII.
Being treated very well by the Prison Commandant, in a hospital and while working on a local farm.
Being freed and taking an old truck and all of the women folk from the farm with him to the west to protect them from the coming Russians.
After the war and back at work in Rolls Royce, Crewe.
He was subject to one of those idiots who liked to come up behind you and dig you in the ribs.
Now, bearing in mind his Commando training gave him all of the quickest ways to respond and kill, he argued that this chap got off very lightly when my dad did actually instinctively respond, bouncing the idiot off the opposing wall.
The Office Manager ask my dad to, "Try not to do it again".
Yes and lots of nightmares.
From blowing bridges in Brussels to slow the Germans as we headed to Dunkirk.
His best mate died in his arms during the retreat.
His fun times in North Africa drinking Absinthe, sabotaging stuff and getting his hair cut by a local.
Hiding in a French forest and finding, "Parachutiste anglais", followed by an arrow, painted on the road at a junction.
Pulling the body of a girl of ca.,14 years out of a river and comforting her limp body.
Getting taken prisoner at Arnhem and being marched all the way to the Czech border to Stalag VII.
Being treated very well by the Prison Commandant, in a hospital and while working on a local farm.
Being freed and taking an old truck and all of the women folk from the farm with him to the west to protect them from the coming Russians.
After the war and back at work in Rolls Royce, Crewe.
He was subject to one of those idiots who liked to come up behind you and dig you in the ribs.
Now, bearing in mind his Commando training gave him all of the quickest ways to respond and kill, he argued that this chap got off very lightly when my dad did actually instinctively respond, bouncing the idiot off the opposing wall.
The Office Manager ask my dad to, "Try not to do it again".
Yes and lots of nightmares.
My grandad suffered after the war. He was in Burma and after VJ Day in Singapore for a while. I don’t think he got home till over a year after VJ Day.
We spoke a lot about the war and he always said he (and his friends) joined up because it was an adventure. After the war he never had the same rank or responsibilities he had during the war and became a ‘big drinker‘, His health was poor after years in the jungle with malaria and hearing damage from his job on the big guns.
Although he still disliked Burma and ‘the japs’ I always got the impression the war was one of the best times of his life. He certainly regretted not staying in the army in Singapore. I’ve read similar accounts from other people who the war gave them opportunity and rank etc that civilian life never replicated.
We spoke a lot about the war and he always said he (and his friends) joined up because it was an adventure. After the war he never had the same rank or responsibilities he had during the war and became a ‘big drinker‘, His health was poor after years in the jungle with malaria and hearing damage from his job on the big guns.
Although he still disliked Burma and ‘the japs’ I always got the impression the war was one of the best times of his life. He certainly regretted not staying in the army in Singapore. I’ve read similar accounts from other people who the war gave them opportunity and rank etc that civilian life never replicated.
My Grandfather was a rear-gunner in Wellingtons.
He had no problem with the prospect of being shot/shot down, but he had nightmares about burning to death on the way down for the rest of his life.
He was a very well adjusted man and my greatest inspiration. He didn't even hold any animosity towards Fritz (they were just doing their job, same as him), though he refused to ever return to his birthplace (Lwów) after the borders changed as I know he saw some pretty despicable things committed by the Russians (he endured a spell in Siberia) which he wouldn't go into detail about.
Lived a peaceful and happy life in the UK for 65 more years after the war.
Still couldn't hardly speak English.
He had no problem with the prospect of being shot/shot down, but he had nightmares about burning to death on the way down for the rest of his life.
He was a very well adjusted man and my greatest inspiration. He didn't even hold any animosity towards Fritz (they were just doing their job, same as him), though he refused to ever return to his birthplace (Lwów) after the borders changed as I know he saw some pretty despicable things committed by the Russians (he endured a spell in Siberia) which he wouldn't go into detail about.
Lived a peaceful and happy life in the UK for 65 more years after the war.
Still couldn't hardly speak English.
El stovey said:
. I’ve read similar accounts from other people who the war gave them opportunity and rank etc that civilian life never replicated.
I have read the same, imagine being William Reid, a Lancaster pilot awarded the VC in 1943 at the age of 21, survived his aircraft being hit by bombs released by another Lancaster in 1944 then the war ends and you are still only 23.I never heard my Grandpa speak about the war, I know he was a Captain and a “desert rat” and there were family rumours about him still having his service revolver. He died two years ago so I can’t ask him, and regret not doing so - a part of me did think that if he didn’t offer to talk about it then don’t ask. After all I can’t imagine it was an easy time...
My dad was very good friends with a ex Japanese prisoner of war. He never talked of his experiences but my dad did tell me some time after John had died that he was tortured and was riddled with scars both physical and mental.
On one occasion Johns wife asked him to check an outside drain that was blocked and over flowing so John and my dad investigated and found a poor hedgehog had got jammed in the drain and was obviously dead and bloated when they pulled it out. This absolutely freaked John out and he went into quite a violent frenzy in his back garden shouting incoherently and smashing things up, eventually he curled up on the lawn and cried himself to sleep.
Mr dad was horrified but Johns wife just took it in her stride and stated it happens some times. When my dad saw him again two days later he was right as rain and it was never mentioned.
I think that would now be classed as PTSD but it just simply was not recognised then.
On one occasion Johns wife asked him to check an outside drain that was blocked and over flowing so John and my dad investigated and found a poor hedgehog had got jammed in the drain and was obviously dead and bloated when they pulled it out. This absolutely freaked John out and he went into quite a violent frenzy in his back garden shouting incoherently and smashing things up, eventually he curled up on the lawn and cried himself to sleep.
Mr dad was horrified but Johns wife just took it in her stride and stated it happens some times. When my dad saw him again two days later he was right as rain and it was never mentioned.
I think that would now be classed as PTSD but it just simply was not recognised then.
One of my regrets was not really talking to my paternal grandfather about some of his experiences (when I was younger he was just a, loveable, boring old fart). Once he was gone I read, and heard, about some of what he did and went through 
During the Japanese advance through Burma he took his squad to the edge of the local village, lay under the huts and (deliberately) gut-shot the Japanese officer thereafter shooting each man who tried to rescue the officer. Later, whilst suffering from dysentery, he carried his wounded CO through 12 miles of teak jungle.
After the war he continued in the military ending up as a Beefeater. In all honesty I never saw a bad side to him - but then it's easier to hide things when you only see them high-days and holidays
During the Japanese advance through Burma he took his squad to the edge of the local village, lay under the huts and (deliberately) gut-shot the Japanese officer thereafter shooting each man who tried to rescue the officer. Later, whilst suffering from dysentery, he carried his wounded CO through 12 miles of teak jungle.After the war he continued in the military ending up as a Beefeater. In all honesty I never saw a bad side to him - but then it's easier to hide things when you only see them high-days and holidays
Just to expand on my above post.
When I was 16 and applying for my first Passport, I asked a friend of my Fathers if he would vouch for me.
He was the owner of a local pluming and central heating company and my eldest brothers boss.
When went round to ask, he invited me in and sat me down for a little chat.
He explained that, after the end of WW2, as a German POW held in England he had met his, to be, Wife and decided not to return to German.
He said that he was very honored that I had asked him and that he was a great admirer of my Father.
He told me that my Father was the first Englishman to invite him to the pub and buy him a drink.
A small but huge gesture, he said.
I have been very proud of my Father for many reasons but this was certainly on of them.
When I was 16 and applying for my first Passport, I asked a friend of my Fathers if he would vouch for me.
He was the owner of a local pluming and central heating company and my eldest brothers boss.
When went round to ask, he invited me in and sat me down for a little chat.
He explained that, after the end of WW2, as a German POW held in England he had met his, to be, Wife and decided not to return to German.
He said that he was very honored that I had asked him and that he was a great admirer of my Father.
He told me that my Father was the first Englishman to invite him to the pub and buy him a drink.
A small but huge gesture, he said.
I have been very proud of my Father for many reasons but this was certainly on of them.
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