Sending parcels to Europe, trade tariffs
Discussion
Just sold a low value car part to somebody in the community, turns out they want it send to Germany. I am tying myself in knots trying to sort it out, could use a bit of help. It's just a couple of bits of small lightweight plastic, but with a value of £100 or so. It would seem that I need to declare it with a "car parts" code that attracts a 20% tariff. Can this really be right? It's a second hand part that I've already paid VAT on.
It also begs the question, what if I were sending something to somebody as a gift? Would they still have to pay tax on a gift?
It also begs the question, what if I were sending something to somebody as a gift? Would they still have to pay tax on a gift?
The person buying it is importing it to Germany so needs to pay German import tax and German VAT when it arrives.
You, the exporter, won't need to do anything except the necessary paperwork (usually a proforma invoice detailing the goods and their value)
There's various limits on import tax and VAT depending on the value - see here for more detail
You, the exporter, won't need to do anything except the necessary paperwork (usually a proforma invoice detailing the goods and their value)
There's various limits on import tax and VAT depending on the value - see here for more detail
I live in France. Many, many UK suppliers that previously sent here with no problems have now stopped sending to the EU countries due to a) the paperwork and b) the duties payable.
It's a nightmare sending stuff back to the UK too, so it's (not) working both ways.
Your situation sounds about right. 20% import duty is the norm now, apparently.
"Frictionless" my arse.
It's a nightmare sending stuff back to the UK too, so it's (not) working both ways.
Your situation sounds about right. 20% import duty is the norm now, apparently.
"Frictionless" my arse.
You can send certain car parts with parcelforce, see here
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
essayer said:
The person buying it is importing it to Germany so needs to pay German import tax and German VAT when it arrives.
You, the exporter, won't need to do anything except the necessary paperwork (usually a proforma invoice detailing the goods and their value)
There's various limits on import tax and VAT depending on the value - see here for more detail
That's interesting - less than 22 euros would make it free from taxes, and up to 150 euros free from customs duties - but not import tax which is the biggie.You, the exporter, won't need to do anything except the necessary paperwork (usually a proforma invoice detailing the goods and their value)
There's various limits on import tax and VAT depending on the value - see here for more detail
There are no duties - that's why we have a free trade agreement. That duty is solely for goods sent or produced in a nation without a free trade agreement with the EU - the UK does.
If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
Pitre said:
I live in France. Many, many UK suppliers that previously sent here with no problems have now stopped sending to the EU countries due to a) the paperwork and b) the duties payable.
It's a nightmare sending stuff back to the UK too, so it's (not) working both ways.
Your situation sounds about right. 20% import duty is the norm now, apparently.
"Frictionless" my arse.
Then frankly the firms you're engaged with are either:It's a nightmare sending stuff back to the UK too, so it's (not) working both ways.
Your situation sounds about right. 20% import duty is the norm now, apparently.
"Frictionless" my arse.
Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
Sway said:
There are no duties - that's why we have a free trade agreement. That duty is solely for goods sent or produced in a nation without a free trade agreement with the EU - the UK does.
The reality is not like that.They may charge the correct import duty - which as you rightly say is often low or zero, but the couriers are cashing in on very high admin fees eg £16 TNT, £22 for UPS which makes small orders disproportionately high.
Then there are "government surcharges" which are completely illegal and against the trade agreement. About half our customers in the EU (literally hundreds of packages every day) are being hit with unexplained and unchallangeable government surcharges,
They are basically punishment charges made up by various countries to spite us and ruin the trade flow.
Eg a customer had an £870 order about 90% of which was UK and EU origin goods. He had a Import duty fee of around £80 all in. He then had a £320 Government surcharge added to it. Plus VAT but he would have had that anyway.
Psycho Warren said:
Sway said:
There are no duties - that's why we have a free trade agreement. That duty is solely for goods sent or produced in a nation without a free trade agreement with the EU - the UK does.
The reality is not like that.They may charge the correct import duty - which as you rightly say is often low or zero, but the couriers are cashing in on very high admin fees eg £16 TNT, £22 for UPS which makes small orders disproportionately high.
Then there are "government surcharges" which are completely illegal and against the trade agreement. About half our customers in the EU (literally hundreds of packages every day) are being hit with unexplained and unchallangeable government surcharges,
They are basically punishment charges made up by various countries to spite us and ruin the trade flow.
Eg a customer had an £870 order about 90% of which was UK and EU origin goods. He had a Import duty fee of around £80 all in. He then had a £320 Government surcharge added to it. Plus VAT but he would have had that anyway.
"Government surcharges" - I'd love to see some examples, we've not experienced any of that, but we're a larger operator acting under AEO certification. They most definitely will be legally challengeable - although I'll acknowledge after the event. One key element there is the point of entry...
Logistics firms gouging? Quelle surprise - choose another. I'd suggest the Post Office.
Your example with duties implies a customs duty rate applied of nearly 100% - which is nonsense.
Apologies - slightly terse response there, but due to being busy. More than happy to help off forum, or if you prefer on here as it might be helpful to a wider audience.
Sway said:
There are no duties - that's why we have a free trade agreement. That duty is solely for goods sent or produced in a nation without a free trade agreement with the EU - the UK does.
If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
Why are DPD asking for the tariff code? I'm thoroughly confused...If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Sway said:
There are no duties - that's why we have a free trade agreement. That duty is solely for goods sent or produced in a nation without a free trade agreement with the EU - the UK does.
If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
Why are DPD asking for the tariff code? I'm thoroughly confused...If sent prior to end June, then you're not responsible for German VAT, the buyer is (and I believe the low value exemption still applies).
Worst case, send as two separate packages so each package is below the threshold for VAT. It's a fairly straightforward shipment that doesn't need logistics firms or anything like that - just send via the Post Office.
That, plus the Country of Origin (CoO) determines the applicable duty rate - which is zero due to the FTA.
Sway said:
Then frankly the firms you're engaged with are either:
Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I think you may be speaking from a 'theoretical' position, rather experience. The reality of receiving stuff from the UK is that it is really difficult and often expensive, leading to many companies simply refusing to ship stuff to France. Other expats tell horrific tales of post-delivery charges, whether VAT(TVA here) or duty, and the numbers are often ludicrously high and some couriers seem to be making it up as they go along. Some traders here selling 'Uk' goods are now getting them from Ireland as they can't get them from the UK any more.Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I kid you not. Frictionless my arse.
Pitre said:
Sway said:
Then frankly the firms you're engaged with are either:
Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I think you may be speaking from a 'theoretical' position, rather experience. The reality of receiving stuff from the UK is that it is really difficult and often expensive, leading to many companies simply refusing to ship stuff to France. Other expats tell horrific tales of post-delivery charges, whether VAT(TVA here) or duty, and the numbers are often ludicrously high and some couriers seem to be making it up as they go along. Some traders here selling 'Uk' goods are now getting them from Ireland as they can't get them from the UK any more.Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I kid you not. Frictionless my arse.
If a "courier" is calculating VAT or Duties - then you're doing something very, very wrong...
Pitre said:
I live in France. Many, many UK suppliers that previously sent here with no problems have now stopped sending to the EU countries due to a) the paperwork and b) the duties payable.
It isn't that at all, it's because no-one knows what they are doing and goods sent get held for weeks or months before either carrying on to the destination or being returned.Sway said:
Pitre said:
Sway said:
Then frankly the firms you're engaged with are either:
Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I think you may be speaking from a 'theoretical' position, rather experience. The reality of receiving stuff from the UK is that it is really difficult and often expensive, leading to many companies simply refusing to ship stuff to France. Other expats tell horrific tales of post-delivery charges, whether VAT(TVA here) or duty, and the numbers are often ludicrously high and some couriers seem to be making it up as they go along. Some traders here selling 'Uk' goods are now getting them from Ireland as they can't get them from the UK any more.Complete idiots who do not understand what a free trade agreement is.
Or,
Aren't selling 'British' goods and are instead importing from the wider world and then shipping onwards to the EU.
Now, you may be confusing customs duties with VAT. Which is essentially a zero sum game now - as you no longer pay UK VAT, but are liable for French VAT. That's a max of a couple of percent different.
I kid you not. Frictionless my arse.
If a "courier" is calculating VAT or Duties - then you're doing something very, very wrong...
Sway, that was an actual example i put up. 3 countries are really bad for it, france, italy and spain are the worst. germany are the best for following everything to the letter. even then there are plenty of really bad delays in both directions. even despite having the correct eu agreed paperwork.
I used to have a small website that shipped gifts worldwide.
When the USA introduced electronic customs data with HS codes it was a PITA but bearable. It took more time as we were a small business and had to enter everything onto the Royal Mail business account
But you knew exactly where you were and it never went wrong.
It seems that sending to the EU is as much a pain if not more but the problem seems to be that every company whether seller or shipper has their own idea of procedures. And that’s going to take a while to sort out.
To be honest if I’d still had my business I’d have tried to fulfill a few orders and if it wasn’t going smoothly then I’d just stop servicing that market.
I can see the problem if that’s a large percentage of your customers but you can’t blame EU suppliers for just giving up on the U.K.
Sway said:
If a "courier" is calculating VAT or Duties - then you're doing something very, very wrong...
But at the retail level this is exactly what happens. FedEx, DHL etc calculate the VAT/duty on your behalf and pay it in advance - plus a fee - if they’re not sure what the parcel is they often hold it while you clarify
essayer said:
Sway said:
If a "courier" is calculating VAT or Duties - then you're doing something very, very wrong...
But at the retail level this is exactly what happens. FedEx, DHL etc calculate the VAT/duty on your behalf and pay it in advance - plus a fee - if they’re not sure what the parcel is they often hold it while you clarify
My point, is that they certainly shouldn't be 'making it up as they go along', and inventing wildly variable duties and VAT as suggested.
citizensm1th said:
But Sway is an expert, he has told us this several times on several threads, even when people have posted real life examples the common answer is the people posting actual examples are doing it wrong.
Except you're ignoring the times where my advice has lead to the business owner realising he was being taken for a ride (or dealing with a firm that really were out of their depth) - and then used my advice to change their approach. Which then realised in massively reduced costs or issues...Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff