Living with a full-time doctor!?

[dhutch]

Just wondering if there are any other PHers who live with a full-time medic, a 'junior doctor' or consultant and how they find that.

We're now three years in, I'm a senior design engineer, she's a forensic psychiatrist registrar, and amount of time and energy her job consumes is absolutely off the scale and quite frankly verging on unsustainable for the both of us. Thoughts, experiences and recommendations welcome.

Daniel

[Second Best]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Rob's got it spot on. I am a senior engineer myself, so the shoe's on the other foot there - I work on-call which does lead to the job being quite prevalent in my personal life. It's probably a large reason why I'm still single (not being able to meet or date women during the pandemic notwithstanding), but I enjoy my working life and wouldn't entertain the idea of changing that for the sake of a partner.

Is it purely her job that's causing friction, or is it a combination of her odd working hours and your 9-5 that always ends up in some form of work conflict - either you can't go out for dinner because she's on call, can't go out for drinks because she's on relief shift, can't do a Weds evening because you have that 8am Chief eng meeeting, etc etc?

I wish you the best of luck but if you're now three years in and she's very happy with her career lifestyle, I don't think there's much you could do to really deter her from her ambitions.

Without wishing to sound callous or insensitive - what's her thoughts on having children? If she's not willing to impact her career for childbirth/childcare etc, then if it's something you wish to pursue in the near future, it's probably worth having the discussion sooner rather than later.

[g3org3y]

Medicine is a bit of a faff. Both in terms of hours (not to mention the job itself) but also the constant relocation to different hospitals/sites around the country for the various years of training. This lack of stability can make it very hard to consider starting a family. Once one gets to consultant level, things are usually more settled but hours can still be long. Some specialities are more family/lifestyle friendly than others.

[Magnum 475]

I can sympathise. Mrs Magnum is actually Dr Magnum - Consultant at our local hospital. I can’t remember the last time she didn’t have to work for at least part of a weekend - it’s been worse than normal with COVID though. As she’s now a consultant, on call sessions don’t require her to be at the hospital all night, but she will get called by juniors at random hours of the night when they’re not quite sure what to do.

Combine that with my role - Business Consultant- that used to require me to stay away several times every month….

It’s not always easy, but we’ll worth it

[SpartacusF]

She's a registrar too (trainee specialist for those confused by the medical hierarchy) so will be in competition with all the other regs for that next consultant job, meaning a ton of extras like writing up cases and papers and training and congresses etc etc. Lots are wedded to the job, however, often resentfully. Tricky one.

[Drawweight]

Although my employment was nowhere near as glamorous as a doctor it still posed problems.

5 / 6 days a week night shift, 2 weeks a year holiday (self employed) it probably contributed a great deal to the end of my first marriage. If I wasn’t working or in bed I was knackered.

I warned the current Mrs D that what I did wasn’t conducive to a long lasting relationship but that didn’t put her off.

Our solution was for her not to work. That way we can make the most of the times I’m at home or not in bed. Go out during the day for lunch or on the motorbike etc. It helped that she was quite content to be home alone.

A drastic move that most couples wouldn’t even consider especially if both have careers but it worked for 20 years.

[Mr Whippy]

A good friend of mine works in senior F1 engineering and his wife a doctor at hospital during early career and they worked it all out and have two kids as well.

So it’s about figuring it out I’d say, and commitment to what you want from your lives more than just your “careers”

[anonymous-user]

SpartacusF said:

She's a registrar too (trainee specialist for those confused by the medical hierarchy) so will be in competition with all the other regs for that next consultant job, meaning a ton of extras like writing up cases and papers and training and congresses etc etc. Lots are wedded to the job, however, often resentfully. Tricky one.

The Mental Health Trust where my Mrs works, always has open vacancies for Forensic Psychiatrists, tbh they seem to have it worked out well bar for the head of service, plenty of time for lucrative Cat II work

[Biglips]

It gets better as a consultant. You are no longer moving around as others have said. On call from home rather than resident(except if you choose the wrong speciality - ask me how I know!). You have more autonomy and I can flex my working patterns to a degree. Still lots of weekends and nights. Lots of stress and responsibility but rewards are good - personally satisfying and financially very secure. Both myself and my wife are full time consultants which was very challenging when we had children but we made it work with a lot of organisation and paid help.

[akirk]

we were married a couple of years ago, and my wife was already a consultant which I think helped... training and moving would have been quite tough... as it was I had to move to her location due to the need to be near the hospitals, but it has worked well... she works long hours but most weekends are free and our pattern of life fits together well...

[oddman]

dhutch said:

Just wondering if there are any other PHers who live with a full-time medic, a 'junior doctor' or consultant and how they find that.

We're now three years in, I'm a senior design engineer, she's a forensic psychiatrist registrar, and amount of time and energy her job consumes is absolutely off the scale and quite frankly verging on unsustainable for the both of us. Thoughts, experiences and recommendations welcome.

Daniel

Probably latter years of registrar and first few years of consultant are the worst in terms of intensity. It's the combination of stepping up to more complex and difficult work; an expectation taht the trainee will work more independently; the volume of work combined with lack of experience to prioritise; work efficiently; say no and delegate. This particularly hits women as this period in their career coincides with the most intense child bearing/rearing years too.

On the other hand, psychiatry in general and forensic in particular is very part time friendly (though need to avoid the trap of making work spill into off days). There is significant medicolegal work not available to bog standard NHS consultants. So the future should get better. I wish I had gone part time from the start of my time as a consultant, as I would have seen more of the kids and cut my cloth financially. The tax cliff at £100k is likely to bite much earlier in her career becuase she will get significant earnings from court reports and appearances. Part time is a way of mitigating this.

The maternity arangements in the NHS are very generous and programme directors in psychiatry usually strictly enforce these and support trainees. This is less the case in general practice for instance. Althought the rights are the same once a consultant, they may more difficult to access from a practical point of view as there may be less support for locums etc. Apart from BMA there is less back up in ensuring rights are honoured once a consultant.

If she is really struggling with workload (rather than enjoying being busy/important - which is a pathology in medics) she should talk to her peers, supervisor and training programme director. Definitely needs to wave a flag before 'unsustainable'. If she was one of my trianees I'd be mortified that her husband was posting here and I didn't know about her plight.

In the longer run, there is plenty of work outside the NHS as a lot of long term hospital care is contracted to private sector. This can be very well remunerated but they want their pound of flesh.

[Sheepshanks]

oddman said:

The maternity arangements in the NHS are very generous

Maybe in time but it's only 2 months full pay - it's 6 in many decent private sector companies.

oddman said:

If she was one of my trianees I'd be mortified that her husband was posting here and I didn't know about her plight.

Daughter works in mental health but not at same level as OP's other half so presumably somewhat lower paid. She has a limited caseload of her own but mainly does supervision & risk which is a lot easier to cope with time wise. Many staff are doing whole days seeing patients then spending the same time again on all the related admin etc. Management don't care and want them to extend their patient facing time.

[OtherBusiness]

My other half is a psychiatrist. She worked all hours (on call, night shifts and all the usual 100 hour week junior doctor path) but then took a 5 year sabbatical to have and raise the children till they were both at school. She is now back part time for 2.5 days per week and it works pretty well as a speciality doctor at our local mental health unit.

[Jefferson Steelflex]

dhutch said:

Just wondering if there are any other PHers who live with a full-time medic, a 'junior doctor' or consultant and how they find that.

We're now three years in, I'm a senior design engineer, she's a forensic psychiatrist registrar, and amount of time and energy her job consumes is absolutely off the scale and quite frankly verging on unsustainable for the both of us. Thoughts, experiences and recommendations welcome.

Daniel

I didn't see anyone ask or you mention how the relationship is in general, and what aspirations you both had or have with regards to the future. If you're 'just' a bit lonely or spend too much time apart, but otherwise get on great and this is a means to an end, then it's doable right?

If you quite literally never see each other, never go out, never get on the job, etc., and have no plan for where it goes, then it's tougher?

My Mrs works as a carer, nothing at all lucrative or stressful I guess, but she is out on funny shifts and some overnight stuff so we only get two evenings a week to do stuff. We always book in weekends away, meals out, etc. and make sure we spend as much time together as we can. The other four of five nights, I'm by myself and make the most of it. There are some benefits.

[oddman]

Sheepshanks said:

Daughter works in mental health but not at same level as OP's other half so presumably somewhat lower paid. She has a limited caseload of her own but mainly does supervision & risk which is a lot easier to cope with time wise. Many staff are doing whole days seeing patients then spending the same time again on all the related admin etc. Management don't care and want them to extend their patient facing time.

Trainee medics are protected. Although providing service work and emergency cover they are supernumerary and can't be told what to do by managers. Their supervisor (consultant) is repsonsible for providing protected teaching time; training; assessment and ensuring the clinical work is providing what has been agreed in a personal development plan. Good trainees are worth their weight in gold and a pleasure to help develop. The poorer ones (not common) take up so much time you'd go home earlier if you didn't have them around.

In addition they get protected time for out of placement training. The work of doctors may be more complex, riskier and higher case load/turnover than other professions but those other professions don't get the same support and training structure post qualification as doctors do.

[bern]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if it's been mentioned but reading 'This is going to hurt' by Adam Kay may help you get your head around her situation. And it's bloody funny too!

[ChocolateFrog]

Coming at it from a different perspective.

Dad was doctor as we were growing up. He had Sunday and 2 other half days off.

A couple of skiing holidays a year didn't really make up for the consistent missing out on normal family stuff.

It's certainly made me want to be there more for my kids.

[dhutch]

Thanks for all the replies, far more than I was expecting when I posted in mild desperation late last night.

Obviously as always, there is more to it that just her job, plenty of difficult things going on with her family, and things from my side of course, as well including working on the house which is a project, me trying to work on my cars a bit, we also own a steamboat which take work, but a significant amount of the issues, including not really having the time to sort out her personal family relationships, does circle back to her job and the huge amount of time and energy it consumes.

Certain aspects have improved now she's a 'Senior Trainee' (Reg) rather than 'Core Trainee' (SHO) including her on-calls being much more about staying at home glued to a phone on loud giving advice (what I would call a busy on call) than camping out in the portacabin in the car park because it isn't worth risking the 40min drive home between calls (which I would call full time nights shift!). And also the recent move from a General Adult (dumping ground) physiotherapy post to the Forensics post (currently medium secure unit) has also helped as, the forensic lot appear have done better at ring fencing the chaos, and the care being co-funded by the CPS as well as NHS, along with low patient turnover/churn helps too.

However she still get up a 5.50 to take the dogs for a half hour walk to clear her head, and the doesn't get home till 6pm earliest, or gone 7pm often, and then at least 2-3 nights a week has a few hours paperwork to do on top, 50 pages of notes to read for someone that's coming in, a 40 page court report for tomorrow, an 250 page essay for a training module (homework from a training course ffs), or something for her special interest work.
All so that she can free up at least one day of the coming weekend, to do something she wants to do! Note, something the she wants to do, rather than something we want to do, because by the time you have grafted most nights of the week in order to have one day to yourself, while she doesn't mind me joining her activity, maybe even want me to join her activity of choice, she certainly isn't going to join me on one of my hobbies, help doing DIY on out house, and likely doesn't even want to host or go over to a BBQ if its predominantly my friends not hers. She doesn't even do it from a selfish or malicious slant, she just doesn't have much free time at all, is generally at least a bit tired, and would just rather get an early night than socialise with my friends. I sort of get that, but its also super hard for me given I would like to do those things together.

We have lived together three years, have two dogs and a family home, with children in the plan if if not realised yet, and I am committed to making it work, but man sometimes it's just hard work when she spends so much time an energy on work.

Thanks

Daniel

Edited by dhutch on Monday 7th March 12:47

[Spare tyre]

I have a couple of friends from school, college etc that were super bright and went on to great things in the medical world

Rarely see or hear from them and they look exhausted and the reward financially certainly doesn’t seem worth it to me. Certainly don’t get to spend time with family as much as me


That said, they may of course get immense job satisfaction, I dunno

[Promised Land]

Spare tyre said:

Rarely see or hear from them and they look exhausted and the reward financially certainly doesn’t seem worth it to me. Certainly don’t get to spend time with family as much as me


That said, they may of course get immense job satisfaction, I dunno

Your second line answered your first, I don't think people go into medicine for the salary, it is to help others and try and change things, rather like vets do it because they have a love for animals.

Reading these posts it sounds a very tough career path to go down though so hats off to anyone that decides to do it, as where would we be without them?