Highly likely to receive a shafting on eBay - advice please
Discussion
So looks like after 21 years on eBay, I’m about to take a shafting on eBay.
Posting this in case anyone has a mate in eBay or PayPal that can help me out, or incase anyone has been successful with a similar situation.
My spidey senses started tingling before I sold the item but I decided against my better judgement.
Anyway had an item up for sale for £300 and this buyer in Germany kept on offering me £150 for it, which I declined, as I had seen them sell for up to £400 in the past.
After a few months I relented and said I would take £200 and he agreed, so I sent him an offer for £200 and before he accepted he sent a message offering £180, I declined and he said he would buy for £200.
After accepting the offer it took him two weeks to pay.
The day it was delivered I received a message saying he wanted a 35% discount (It was a plastic figure, brand new and unused, imagine going into a shop and picking it off the shelf, that’s the condition it was in)
I politely told him I didn’t do partial refunds and to instead file a claim via eBay, so that he could return the item to get a full refund. I tried to call his bluff, as the item was impossible to damage and the item was packed so well and in a double walled box which is indestructible.
Three days later I get a message from eBay saying he has filed a dispute outside of eBay for an item not as received and wants a refund of £66 and to keep the item. The message on the claim just said the packaging of the item was not in absolutely perfect condition and there was no damage during shipping. No photos provided to explain what he was claiming for.
I replied to the dispute on ebay, however ebay say they have no control over the outcome as it would be decided by PayPal.
1 week after I had replied to the dispute the buyer has now decided to up the refund to 100% of the purchase, even though nothing has changed.
[url/]
|https://thumbsnap.com/oBFJ6sVd[/url]
I rang eBay and they said I just need to wait for PayPal to decide the outcome, I can’t contact PayPal as the dispute is between the buyer and eBay. Ebay even said that I wouldn’t be covered because the seller circumvented the seller protection promise because the claim was made outside of eBay first.
I did some digging via the buyers feedback and it’s obvious he asks for partial refunds regularly and makes false claims such as items not received or wrong items sent. I can easily see 5+ we such claims from just this past year.
Anyone have any ideas? At this point it’s not about the money it’s the principle.. I did the guy a favour both selling at a discount and waiting for payment and then he still tries to f me over.
Posting this in case anyone has a mate in eBay or PayPal that can help me out, or incase anyone has been successful with a similar situation.
My spidey senses started tingling before I sold the item but I decided against my better judgement.
Anyway had an item up for sale for £300 and this buyer in Germany kept on offering me £150 for it, which I declined, as I had seen them sell for up to £400 in the past.
After a few months I relented and said I would take £200 and he agreed, so I sent him an offer for £200 and before he accepted he sent a message offering £180, I declined and he said he would buy for £200.
After accepting the offer it took him two weeks to pay.
The day it was delivered I received a message saying he wanted a 35% discount (It was a plastic figure, brand new and unused, imagine going into a shop and picking it off the shelf, that’s the condition it was in)
I politely told him I didn’t do partial refunds and to instead file a claim via eBay, so that he could return the item to get a full refund. I tried to call his bluff, as the item was impossible to damage and the item was packed so well and in a double walled box which is indestructible.
Three days later I get a message from eBay saying he has filed a dispute outside of eBay for an item not as received and wants a refund of £66 and to keep the item. The message on the claim just said the packaging of the item was not in absolutely perfect condition and there was no damage during shipping. No photos provided to explain what he was claiming for.
I replied to the dispute on ebay, however ebay say they have no control over the outcome as it would be decided by PayPal.
1 week after I had replied to the dispute the buyer has now decided to up the refund to 100% of the purchase, even though nothing has changed.
[url/]
|https://thumbsnap.com/oBFJ6sVd[/url]I rang eBay and they said I just need to wait for PayPal to decide the outcome, I can’t contact PayPal as the dispute is between the buyer and eBay. Ebay even said that I wouldn’t be covered because the seller circumvented the seller protection promise because the claim was made outside of eBay first.
I did some digging via the buyers feedback and it’s obvious he asks for partial refunds regularly and makes false claims such as items not received or wrong items sent. I can easily see 5+ we such claims from just this past year.
Anyone have any ideas? At this point it’s not about the money it’s the principle.. I did the guy a favour both selling at a discount and waiting for payment and then he still tries to f me over.
Yeah, you've made the offer via eBay and he accepted. I can't see how this doesn't fall within eBay's remit. I would just say you want the item back and then issue refund upon return.
I recently sold something for £100+ and just before the 30 day period was up the buyer decided it was a fake item so wanted to return it (I highly suspect that they wore it a few times then wanted to send it back but no way of proving really). I accepted the return and all he had to do was drop it off at Post Office with a return label provided via eBay. Once I got it back within a certain date, I issued the refund and that was the end of that.
I reckon you'll see some issue here where you don't receive the same item back in the post.
Ah. I've just read through your post again and I see that whilst he had bought via eBay he has paid via Paypal. Is that correct? Thus, he has raised a dispute with Paypal in order to keep the item AND get the money refunded back to him? A quick search online suggests this seems to be the trend... https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Buy...
I would get a hold of Paypal by any means possible and if you can, show screenshots of all the previous correspondence/lowball offers from this buyer in the past before you ultimately sold it to him.
I recently sold something for £100+ and just before the 30 day period was up the buyer decided it was a fake item so wanted to return it (I highly suspect that they wore it a few times then wanted to send it back but no way of proving really). I accepted the return and all he had to do was drop it off at Post Office with a return label provided via eBay. Once I got it back within a certain date, I issued the refund and that was the end of that.
I reckon you'll see some issue here where you don't receive the same item back in the post.
Ah. I've just read through your post again and I see that whilst he had bought via eBay he has paid via Paypal. Is that correct? Thus, he has raised a dispute with Paypal in order to keep the item AND get the money refunded back to him? A quick search online suggests this seems to be the trend... https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Buy...
I would get a hold of Paypal by any means possible and if you can, show screenshots of all the previous correspondence/lowball offers from this buyer in the past before you ultimately sold it to him.
xx99xx said:
"Ebay even said that I wouldn’t be covered because the seller circumvented the seller protection promise because the claim was made outside of eBay first."
How is that your fault? You sold within eBay didn't you?
Yes I sold within eBay and buyer paid within eBay but used PayPal. Exactly none of this is my fault, if you ever want something for free all you need to do is file an item not as received in PayPal and you get the item and your money for free..How is that your fault? You sold within eBay didn't you?
beambeam1 said:
Yeah, you've made the offer via eBay and he accepted. I can't see how this doesn't fall within eBay's remit. I would just say you want the item back and then issue refund upon return.
I recently sold something for £100+ and just before the 30 day period was up the buyer decided it was a fake item so wanted to return it (I highly suspect that they wore it a few times then wanted to send it back but no way of proving really). I accepted the return and all he had to do was drop it off at Post Office with a return label provided via eBay. Once I got it back within a certain date, I issued the refund and that was the end of that.
I reckon you'll see some issue here where you don't receive the same item back in the post.
Ah. I've just read through your post again and I see that whilst he had bought via eBay he has paid via Paypal. Is that correct? Thus, he has raised a dispute with Paypal in order to keep the item AND get the money refunded back to him? A quick search online suggests this seems to be the trend... https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Buy...
I would get a hold of Paypal by any means possible and if you can, show screenshots of all the previous correspondence/lowball offers from this buyer in the past before you ultimately sold it to him.
Cheers yes, that’s the issue here, he didn’t raise a claim on eBay but on PayPal. Buyer is ignoring all my messages to return the item for a full refund. I rang PayPal but they said the dispute is between the buyer and eBay, so I can’t get involved… eBay is saying they are just the middle man.. it’s a sI recently sold something for £100+ and just before the 30 day period was up the buyer decided it was a fake item so wanted to return it (I highly suspect that they wore it a few times then wanted to send it back but no way of proving really). I accepted the return and all he had to do was drop it off at Post Office with a return label provided via eBay. Once I got it back within a certain date, I issued the refund and that was the end of that.
I reckon you'll see some issue here where you don't receive the same item back in the post.
Ah. I've just read through your post again and I see that whilst he had bought via eBay he has paid via Paypal. Is that correct? Thus, he has raised a dispute with Paypal in order to keep the item AND get the money refunded back to him? A quick search online suggests this seems to be the trend... https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Buy...
I would get a hold of Paypal by any means possible and if you can, show screenshots of all the previous correspondence/lowball offers from this buyer in the past before you ultimately sold it to him.
t show, before eBay managed payments you would be able to actually speak to the person that had control over the dispute..I can't help your situation but to avoid this happening in future, would it help if you filmed or photographed the product while you're packing it?
That way you have evidence that it was as described when you sent it. I tend to do that when returning stuff by post so I have some proof if something gets damaged in transit.
That way you have evidence that it was as described when you sent it. I tend to do that when returning stuff by post so I have some proof if something gets damaged in transit.
what a crockdurbster said:
I can't help your situation but to avoid this happening in future, would it help if you filmed or photographed the product while you're packing it?
That way you have evidence that it was as described when you sent it. I tend to do that when returning stuff by post so I have some proof if something gets damaged in transit.
Sadly stuff like that never works, common sense rarely is applied they just take side of buyerThat way you have evidence that it was as described when you sent it. I tend to do that when returning stuff by post so I have some proof if something gets damaged in transit.
I sold some old car badges described as for parts / broken
I had removed the locating pins, 10 pictures showing this, in the title, description etc
Person receives the badges and says the pins are missing
I contact eBay / PayPal saying yes, as per pics and description
But it simply fell on deaf ears
Because of this I only really sell stuff that would ultimately end up in the bin, old car parts, old manuals etc
It’s a real shame but my impression is eBay don’t want the agro of individuals selling old tat
They want big Chinese business with high turnover
What a nuisance! There truly are some very irritating people out there.
I had a similar experience earlier this year, but with an old PC case that instead of taking to the tip I decided to put on ebay. Very quickly got an offer of around £20 or £30 (can't remember) via a message and accepted, asking for a formal offer, which never arrived. For some reason this case was obviously popular and it got lots of bids and ended up selling for around £100 or thereabouts, and the winner was my friend with the previous informal offer. Paid and the case was shipped off. A few days later got a serious of messages telling me that the case was dangerous and he wanted a refund of 70% (i.e. back to the previous informal offer), and to keep the case. Realising that I was being scammed I told him to return it, which he didn't want to do as he liked it. Went through ebay and I said to them that I was happy to accept return and full refund or he keeps the item and pays in full. Time frame for return closed, and then the cycle started again, but the demands were less. Said the same but was so sick of the nonsense that I think I accepted around 30% refund in the end.
I was unaware of this scam until then and now realise that it is very common, sorry to hear you've been stung by it.
I never sell anything through ebay unless it has no value to me and I would otherwise just take it to the tip, therefore reducing the potential for financial loss and it becoming nuisance value only. I used to Freecycle things, but so many of the folk on that were very peculiar and clearly only wanted things to resell themselves, which seems to go against the ethos of the thing.
I don't know what you can do about the current scam, the nuisance scammer that I had to deal with was from Luton IIRC and had 'nurseries' in the user name.
I had a similar experience earlier this year, but with an old PC case that instead of taking to the tip I decided to put on ebay. Very quickly got an offer of around £20 or £30 (can't remember) via a message and accepted, asking for a formal offer, which never arrived. For some reason this case was obviously popular and it got lots of bids and ended up selling for around £100 or thereabouts, and the winner was my friend with the previous informal offer. Paid and the case was shipped off. A few days later got a serious of messages telling me that the case was dangerous and he wanted a refund of 70% (i.e. back to the previous informal offer), and to keep the case. Realising that I was being scammed I told him to return it, which he didn't want to do as he liked it. Went through ebay and I said to them that I was happy to accept return and full refund or he keeps the item and pays in full. Time frame for return closed, and then the cycle started again, but the demands were less. Said the same but was so sick of the nonsense that I think I accepted around 30% refund in the end.
I was unaware of this scam until then and now realise that it is very common, sorry to hear you've been stung by it.
I never sell anything through ebay unless it has no value to me and I would otherwise just take it to the tip, therefore reducing the potential for financial loss and it becoming nuisance value only. I used to Freecycle things, but so many of the folk on that were very peculiar and clearly only wanted things to resell themselves, which seems to go against the ethos of the thing.
I don't know what you can do about the current scam, the nuisance scammer that I had to deal with was from Luton IIRC and had 'nurseries' in the user name.
eBay plain sucks now imho. They rinse the hell out of you if you sell something, I'll never sell anything on there again.
This has happened to the place i work at more than a few times ( with paypal particularly)..... if he sends you an EMPTY box back on a tracked service, he can claim he sent it back for a refund, he'll have tracking details and proof of delivery...he'll get his money back. (if paypal).
For example... We had a guy return a full water bottle, which should have been a pair of £300 shoes, as he had proof of return, paypal ruled in his favour.
We've had people buy jackets and they returned a towel.
My advice.. take the hit and put the cost down to a lesson and learn from it.
Some people are just scamming scum.
This has happened to the place i work at more than a few times ( with paypal particularly)..... if he sends you an EMPTY box back on a tracked service, he can claim he sent it back for a refund, he'll have tracking details and proof of delivery...he'll get his money back. (if paypal).
For example... We had a guy return a full water bottle, which should have been a pair of £300 shoes, as he had proof of return, paypal ruled in his favour.
We've had people buy jackets and they returned a towel.
My advice.. take the hit and put the cost down to a lesson and learn from it.
Some people are just scamming scum.
The same reason I've stopped selling stuff on ebay. Its just not worth the hassle.
I sold a mac keyboard (that I'm using to type this) on ebay, only for it to be sent back as it apparently didn't work.
I once sold something, and 30 mins later the person had both paid and left me negative feedback!
Unfortunately during disputes ebay or PayPal always side with the buyer
I sold a mac keyboard (that I'm using to type this) on ebay, only for it to be sent back as it apparently didn't work.
I once sold something, and 30 mins later the person had both paid and left me negative feedback!
Unfortunately during disputes ebay or PayPal always side with the buyer
Edited by james6546 on Wednesday 24th November 09:24
Edited by james6546 on Wednesday 24th November 09:35
If asking for the buyer to return the item, all he has to do is post an empty parcel and provide tracking info to Paypal proving the item has been posted. You end uo with an empty parcel and Paypal refund the buyer.
PayPal seems to favour the buyer and take their side. This is good when you are the buyer and the seller rips you off. I once had a seller post my item in a Jiffy bag which was empty when I opened it. I raised a dispute with Paypal, the seller sent another empty Jiffy bag and provided tracking info to Paypal. This went on for a while but Paypal sided with me and I eventually got a refund. There was no way for Paypal to prove whether the seller or me was telling the truth, but they sided with me.
PayPal seems to favour the buyer and take their side. This is good when you are the buyer and the seller rips you off. I once had a seller post my item in a Jiffy bag which was empty when I opened it. I raised a dispute with Paypal, the seller sent another empty Jiffy bag and provided tracking info to Paypal. This went on for a while but Paypal sided with me and I eventually got a refund. There was no way for Paypal to prove whether the seller or me was telling the truth, but they sided with me.
Surly if Paypal side with the buyer he has to send it back (fully understand he can send an empty box) but can't figure out how Paypal can side with the buyer, allow him to keep the item and a full refund? Surly that's just theft no? Would you then have to open a small claims case?
Absolutely crazy what we have to deal with nowadays!
Absolutely crazy what we have to deal with nowadays!
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