Are Brits just generally a bit 'yobby'?
Discussion
I am dual national- my dad was French and mum from sunny Sheffield.
I was born in Sheffield but Mum & Dad moved to France when I was 2 years old. I was brought up over there and came to visit grandparents & family in Sheffield every summer.
I always loved going to England. My friends back in France might have gone to more exotic locations but I was never jaelous- in fact I always preferred going to the UK.
Back in those days (late 80s-early 90s) my dad had a very basic Mk2 Golf 'C'. It was literally as basic as they came- the windows were knackered and I always remembered my dad making absolutely sure I would never wound them down as it would mean a costly fix- something we could ill afford at the time.
That car took us everywhere, including the Austrian mountains, barely making up but soldering on..... Anyway, I diagress....
France was great looking back but the school system was very rigid. I wasn't doing too well at school and when you get to 16 over there, well it's time to either go into an apprenticeship or go towards Higher Education. If your Maths and French aren't up to scratch you are essentially forced into apprenticeships. These were regarded as heading for a mediocre life according to my parents, and I suffered quite a bit at the time in terms of it affecting my confidence.
Long story short, I woke up one morning saying I wanted to move to the UK. I'd had enough and it was time for a change. I was only 16 and this was halfway through a school year, in Dec '99.
February 2000 was when I moved to Sheff, with my grandparents. It was initially a shock to the system, as can be imagined.
Firstly, living with 'old' people was a challenge. They had no TV, no heating (just the 70s fireplace that came on a few times a day) and certainly no internet!
However it worked. I joined the local college and the laid back attitude the teachers had here just blew me away. They were everything my French teachers weren't. I loved going to college and moving here turned out to be the best decision.
Fast forward over 20 years and lots has changed. What hasn't though is that perhaps culturally I just don't fit in and never have. I didn't notice it as much in my 20s as I chose to ignore it. I was far too proud to admit that it wasn't working anymore here. My dad would say 'You'll never fit in here- we left years ago as the people here are very 'local'.
Didn't quite know what he meant then but I now do. I've been unhappy the best part of 10 years now. I live in the North (near Leeds now) so am I judging the UK unfairly? I have never lived down South.
There is just this feel of a huge number of people acting like wannabe gangsters..... The drink culture is off the scale- if you dont drink here you are looked on as some form of oddity.
Generally people are unfriendly- they say people are friendly in the North but it just is very superficial. 'Alright love, it's a bit grim today' doesn't cut it as being friendly.... 'See you later' tends to mean I wont see you again.
We all know the weather is rough- nothing can be done about that to be fair but it adds to the general ambience....
I am thinking of moving 'abroad'. I have a family now so for various reasons France has been crossed off the list but we considering Spain. We work online so the job situation will be fine- I am hoping the Spaniards will generally be friendlier and happier. I am also hoping the weather will enable my kids to play outside a lot more. Has society changed so much that kids stay in as long as they do here? Where are tje kids here? No one seems to play outside.
This post has perhaps turned into a bit of a rant but I hope it makes sense. Just looking for general feedback and perhaps advice?
I was born in Sheffield but Mum & Dad moved to France when I was 2 years old. I was brought up over there and came to visit grandparents & family in Sheffield every summer.
I always loved going to England. My friends back in France might have gone to more exotic locations but I was never jaelous- in fact I always preferred going to the UK.
Back in those days (late 80s-early 90s) my dad had a very basic Mk2 Golf 'C'. It was literally as basic as they came- the windows were knackered and I always remembered my dad making absolutely sure I would never wound them down as it would mean a costly fix- something we could ill afford at the time.
That car took us everywhere, including the Austrian mountains, barely making up but soldering on..... Anyway, I diagress....
France was great looking back but the school system was very rigid. I wasn't doing too well at school and when you get to 16 over there, well it's time to either go into an apprenticeship or go towards Higher Education. If your Maths and French aren't up to scratch you are essentially forced into apprenticeships. These were regarded as heading for a mediocre life according to my parents, and I suffered quite a bit at the time in terms of it affecting my confidence.
Long story short, I woke up one morning saying I wanted to move to the UK. I'd had enough and it was time for a change. I was only 16 and this was halfway through a school year, in Dec '99.
February 2000 was when I moved to Sheff, with my grandparents. It was initially a shock to the system, as can be imagined.
Firstly, living with 'old' people was a challenge. They had no TV, no heating (just the 70s fireplace that came on a few times a day) and certainly no internet!
However it worked. I joined the local college and the laid back attitude the teachers had here just blew me away. They were everything my French teachers weren't. I loved going to college and moving here turned out to be the best decision.
Fast forward over 20 years and lots has changed. What hasn't though is that perhaps culturally I just don't fit in and never have. I didn't notice it as much in my 20s as I chose to ignore it. I was far too proud to admit that it wasn't working anymore here. My dad would say 'You'll never fit in here- we left years ago as the people here are very 'local'.
Didn't quite know what he meant then but I now do. I've been unhappy the best part of 10 years now. I live in the North (near Leeds now) so am I judging the UK unfairly? I have never lived down South.
There is just this feel of a huge number of people acting like wannabe gangsters..... The drink culture is off the scale- if you dont drink here you are looked on as some form of oddity.
Generally people are unfriendly- they say people are friendly in the North but it just is very superficial. 'Alright love, it's a bit grim today' doesn't cut it as being friendly.... 'See you later' tends to mean I wont see you again.
We all know the weather is rough- nothing can be done about that to be fair but it adds to the general ambience....
I am thinking of moving 'abroad'. I have a family now so for various reasons France has been crossed off the list but we considering Spain. We work online so the job situation will be fine- I am hoping the Spaniards will generally be friendlier and happier. I am also hoping the weather will enable my kids to play outside a lot more. Has society changed so much that kids stay in as long as they do here? Where are tje kids here? No one seems to play outside.
This post has perhaps turned into a bit of a rant but I hope it makes sense. Just looking for general feedback and perhaps advice?
Large parts of the North are friendly and welcoming as are large parts of the UK in general but i found off my own personal experience that most industrialised areas of Yorkshire tend to have an increasingly large number of generally unhappy people.
Coast areas and the less populated areas tend to be very welcoming as is the case for anywhere else in the UK
Coast areas and the less populated areas tend to be very welcoming as is the case for anywhere else in the UK
I moved from SA to London many years ago.
The grey skies and cooler temps really do add to the grumpiness.
You don’t realise it until you’re in a warm climate with blue skies.
You’re smiling just sitting under a tree away from the heat of the day, relaxing and doing nothing if you like.
People are generally happier as they are out and about doing loads of sports etc.
If you love the uk then move to the south coast.
No offence to the north people. I’ve not been so can’t comment but the lack of decent weather would break me.
I’ve lived in London for 15 years and moved to the south coast last year.
Best decision of my life! Similar weather of course but the 3 min walk to the beach, lack of traffic yet still in a fairly large town do wonders for the mind.
Perhaps take a short break to a larger coastal town. The smaller towns might not have the facilities or economic work you need.
The grey skies and cooler temps really do add to the grumpiness.
You don’t realise it until you’re in a warm climate with blue skies.
You’re smiling just sitting under a tree away from the heat of the day, relaxing and doing nothing if you like.
People are generally happier as they are out and about doing loads of sports etc.
If you love the uk then move to the south coast.
No offence to the north people. I’ve not been so can’t comment but the lack of decent weather would break me.
I’ve lived in London for 15 years and moved to the south coast last year.
Best decision of my life! Similar weather of course but the 3 min walk to the beach, lack of traffic yet still in a fairly large town do wonders for the mind.
Perhaps take a short break to a larger coastal town. The smaller towns might not have the facilities or economic work you need.
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I think it's more down to the type of people you associate with than the area you live in. I'm pretty sure there are people like those you describe everywhere in the UK, but there are also people who are not like that everywhere. Obviously some areas will have more of that sort of cultural influence than others, but it doesn't mean that everyone is like that in any one area.
'Yobby' is probably a good place to start when describing Brits, as well as generally being brash, materialistic, boastful and keen to impress their peers.
Any Brit who wants to live a peaceful, simple, modest life of relative solitude (at least 'solitude' in terms of not feeling the need to partake in Social Media) is probably in a very small minority and more than likely classed as a bit of an oddball and misfit, where as in other countries this is a normal way of life for whole communities.
Any Brit who wants to live a peaceful, simple, modest life of relative solitude (at least 'solitude' in terms of not feeling the need to partake in Social Media) is probably in a very small minority and more than likely classed as a bit of an oddball and misfit, where as in other countries this is a normal way of life for whole communities.
I dislike all this regional bias stuff, it's nonsense. People in the North aren't friendlier or less friendly than people in the South, or the Midlands, or Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland. I've been to London lots of times and had random conversations with strangers, its all down to respective social skills. Notwithstanding that lots of Londoners aren't from London anyway, having moved there from elsewhere to work.
Britain does have a big drinking culture, people drink a lot very quickly and get pissed and behave badly. That said, it is increasingly common for younger people not to drink, people are much more aware of things like physical and mental well being, getting drunk all the time is good for neither.
Britain does have a big drinking culture, people drink a lot very quickly and get pissed and behave badly. That said, it is increasingly common for younger people not to drink, people are much more aware of things like physical and mental well being, getting drunk all the time is good for neither.
The weather is a huge negative in the North. I am from East Yorkshire which although quite dry is very cold.
I have lived in the Middle East and it is the opposite there, But the world looks a lot better with a coat of sunshine.
The people in the North outside of the major cities are generally friendly and welcoming. More so than my experience of the South but again that is genaralising.
Now France- My Mother lived there for 9 years, my Father had a house in the South, I worked there intermittently and my sister still has an apartment there so I know a bit of life there. France is a nightmare for bureaucracy and the speed of getting even the simplist task done is glacial.
There are a lot of problems in French towns & cities with dissafected youths and Islamic fundamentalism. We have our fair share of Islamic terrorism but never on the scale of the French.
I witnessed a huge drinking culture in France but not to the scale we have. Again this is cultural to the Nordics and Anglo saxons.
Looking at Spain, do you never ask why the houses have bars on the windows? House robbery is a huge problem there as well as pick pockets and knife crime in certain tourist areas.
Cocaine use is the highest in Europe.
No where is perfect. I lived in Australia for a while and hated the place. (Mainly the people who really do whine all the time).
Canada is dull beyond words.
America has religious nutters and guns everywhere.
Sweden- Highest rates of sexual assault. Lots of alcoholism.
Italy- Poverty and gangs in every major city. Corruption is endemic.
Far east too hot and sweaty. Corruption. Crime.
Etc etc.
My thinking is try a few places and find out where you are happiest. Stay there.
I am back in East Yorkshire on the coast and happy.
I have lived in the Middle East and it is the opposite there, But the world looks a lot better with a coat of sunshine.
The people in the North outside of the major cities are generally friendly and welcoming. More so than my experience of the South but again that is genaralising.
Now France- My Mother lived there for 9 years, my Father had a house in the South, I worked there intermittently and my sister still has an apartment there so I know a bit of life there. France is a nightmare for bureaucracy and the speed of getting even the simplist task done is glacial.
There are a lot of problems in French towns & cities with dissafected youths and Islamic fundamentalism. We have our fair share of Islamic terrorism but never on the scale of the French.
I witnessed a huge drinking culture in France but not to the scale we have. Again this is cultural to the Nordics and Anglo saxons.
Looking at Spain, do you never ask why the houses have bars on the windows? House robbery is a huge problem there as well as pick pockets and knife crime in certain tourist areas.
Cocaine use is the highest in Europe.
No where is perfect. I lived in Australia for a while and hated the place. (Mainly the people who really do whine all the time).
Canada is dull beyond words.
America has religious nutters and guns everywhere.
Sweden- Highest rates of sexual assault. Lots of alcoholism.
Italy- Poverty and gangs in every major city. Corruption is endemic.
Far east too hot and sweaty. Corruption. Crime.
Etc etc.
My thinking is try a few places and find out where you are happiest. Stay there.
I am back in East Yorkshire on the coast and happy.
mike74 said:
'Yobby' is probably a good place to start when describing Brits, as well as generally being brash, materialistic, boastful and keen to impress their peers.
Any Brit who wants to live a peaceful, simple, modest life of relative solitude (at least 'solitude' in terms of not feeling the need to partake in Social Media) is probably in a very small minority and more than likely classed as a bit of an oddball and misfit, where as in other countries this is a normal way of life for whole communities.
This is me. I'm quite private, I don't do Facebook, Twitter etc, and people think it's because I've got something to hide. PH is my biggest vice, if it could be described as Social Media.Any Brit who wants to live a peaceful, simple, modest life of relative solitude (at least 'solitude' in terms of not feeling the need to partake in Social Media) is probably in a very small minority and more than likely classed as a bit of an oddball and misfit, where as in other countries this is a normal way of life for whole communities.
kambites said:
I think it's more down to the type of people you associate with than the area you live in. I'm pretty sure there are people like those you describe everywhere in the UK, but there are also people who are not like that everywhere. Obviously some areas will have more of that sort of cultural influence than others, but it doesn't mean that everyone is like that in any one area.
Yeah that's fair, i quite like Dorset and in particular the area around Swanage/Weymouth. Met some generally happy people but also some proper miserable a
holes. Same goes for most of areas of the UK, if you go looking for grumpy people then you'll find them.From my own experience, one of the few things that Theresa May ever said that resonated with me was "If you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere".
I am quarter English, quarter Irish, quarter French and quarter Dutch. I was raised to scrupulously understand, value and feel part of all those cultures. I speak French and Dutch & always have done and have lived in both those countries. Added to that, I travelled the world as a child with my father's career in the armed forces and diplomatic service. We lived in Kenya, Hong Kong, Belgium, USA and was always encourage to assimilate with the local community and not live in an expat bubble.
They have all been great experiences that have shaped who I am and I wouldn't change anything for the world but the downside is that it means that I don't feel like I really fit in, either here in the UK or anywhere else
I am quarter English, quarter Irish, quarter French and quarter Dutch. I was raised to scrupulously understand, value and feel part of all those cultures. I speak French and Dutch & always have done and have lived in both those countries. Added to that, I travelled the world as a child with my father's career in the armed forces and diplomatic service. We lived in Kenya, Hong Kong, Belgium, USA and was always encourage to assimilate with the local community and not live in an expat bubble.
They have all been great experiences that have shaped who I am and I wouldn't change anything for the world but the downside is that it means that I don't feel like I really fit in, either here in the UK or anywhere else
kambites said:
I think it's more down to the type of people you associate with than the area you live in. I'm pretty sure there are people like those you describe everywhere in the UK, but there are also people who are not like that everywhere. Obviously some areas will have more of that sort of cultural influence than others, but it doesn't mean that everyone is like that in any one area.
This post covers my thoughts on the matter. The OP mentions wannabe gangsters, heavy drinking and a general lack of community but it has nothing to do with him living in Leeds, West Yorks, the north or even the UK. These problems can occur anywhere in the country or probably the world as well. If the OP wants to get away from negative elements of our culture then running off to Spain won’t necessarily make any difference, but moving to a small village somewhere not far from Leeds could do. There’s an endless amount of beautiful countryside in Yorkshire and I find that village life is good for the soul. Bumping into people you recognise on a regular basis, a sense of community and a general lack of tossers due to there simply not being many people around makes life more enjoyable. As you and your partner can live anywhere why not try staying close to where you are now but in a totally different setting?
You sound quite conceited and miserable, perhaps the problem is you? I've travelled the world over more than enough to last a lifetime for me and the north of England genuinely does have some of the friendliest people you will meet, with the exception of one of two well-known towns and cities, which don't include Leeds.
Only Americans take friendliness further, often to almost excessive levels of cod-familiarity with people they've never met. But I'm not a miserable sort, so I don't mind a smile and polite conversation with someone I've never met.
Only Americans take friendliness further, often to almost excessive levels of cod-familiarity with people they've never met. But I'm not a miserable sort, so I don't mind a smile and polite conversation with someone I've never met.
ClaphamGT3 said:
They have all been great experiences that have shaped who I am and I wouldn't change anything for the world but the downside is that it means that I don't feel like I really fit in, either here in the UK or anywhere else
From your posts it appears that you have picked up the Dutch sense of superiority - I'm not surprised that it puts the English off you...NickCQ said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
They have all been great experiences that have shaped who I am and I wouldn't change anything for the world but the downside is that it means that I don't feel like I really fit in, either here in the UK or anywhere else
From your posts it appears that you have picked up the Dutch sense of superiority - I'm not surprised that it puts the English off you...Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff