Discussion
At least once a week I pass through a part of North London where, for as long as I can remember, I see a couple of homeless guys who appear to be living in makeshift tents at the roadside.
These tents move (not sure if they get moved) from one place to another (always around a busy junction). These shacks are usually made of whatever they can utilise; tarpaulins, bed sheets, cardboard, sheets of ply, or whatever they can find. Exposed to the elements, they don't last long and after a few days - or weeks if they're lucky - another shanty appears (sometimes right next to it) and so the cycle continues.
I'm not sure if they live there full time, however, it looks like they might because they're always there. The only time you see these guys is when they're at the lights with a blanket or duvet draped over their shoulders. They beg; for money. People in the area I know say these guys are addicts. They beg until they get enough and then go and score their next hit from a rendez-vous point. When you think of drug addicts, in this case I believe the substance is heroin, you - or certainly I do - picture an image they might conform to, and here's the twist: these guys, other than looking a bit scruffy, don't look too bad. It got me thinking about what their life must be like.
They're not quite the picture of health, but, for example their hair looks like it gets cut. The clothes they wear don't look that bad. The overall appearance of these guys is synonymous with someone sleeping rough however, that is largely down to the deadpan face and dirty blanket over their shoulders. Begging obviously is working for them. They are at it every day. They are also clearly getting enough to eat, certainly to get by. In one sense, the sight of their shanties is an eyesore and I do wonder how the councils see it, but then again, it's on an industrial road where there are no residents. It is very busy there; a much traffic passes through, stopping at the lights when they switch.
This is their life. And whilst I'm not suggesting they are, or might even be happy, they are living it day to day. You could draw parallels to our own lives where most of us are gainfully employed and perhaps even controlled by those circumstances but life does take a very different catalyst to put you firmly into such a landscape.
My estimate of drug addiction - assuming this is the reason for this kind of living - has always been very different.
These tents move (not sure if they get moved) from one place to another (always around a busy junction). These shacks are usually made of whatever they can utilise; tarpaulins, bed sheets, cardboard, sheets of ply, or whatever they can find. Exposed to the elements, they don't last long and after a few days - or weeks if they're lucky - another shanty appears (sometimes right next to it) and so the cycle continues.
I'm not sure if they live there full time, however, it looks like they might because they're always there. The only time you see these guys is when they're at the lights with a blanket or duvet draped over their shoulders. They beg; for money. People in the area I know say these guys are addicts. They beg until they get enough and then go and score their next hit from a rendez-vous point. When you think of drug addicts, in this case I believe the substance is heroin, you - or certainly I do - picture an image they might conform to, and here's the twist: these guys, other than looking a bit scruffy, don't look too bad. It got me thinking about what their life must be like.
They're not quite the picture of health, but, for example their hair looks like it gets cut. The clothes they wear don't look that bad. The overall appearance of these guys is synonymous with someone sleeping rough however, that is largely down to the deadpan face and dirty blanket over their shoulders. Begging obviously is working for them. They are at it every day. They are also clearly getting enough to eat, certainly to get by. In one sense, the sight of their shanties is an eyesore and I do wonder how the councils see it, but then again, it's on an industrial road where there are no residents. It is very busy there; a much traffic passes through, stopping at the lights when they switch.
This is their life. And whilst I'm not suggesting they are, or might even be happy, they are living it day to day. You could draw parallels to our own lives where most of us are gainfully employed and perhaps even controlled by those circumstances but life does take a very different catalyst to put you firmly into such a landscape.
My estimate of drug addiction - assuming this is the reason for this kind of living - has always been very different.
My partners DiL owns a hairdressing salon and when she first moved in there was a guy who sat begging outside the empty shop next door.
He was well educated, spoke very well, spent his day getting food and drink bought for him by people from the Tesco Express over the road, made quite a bit in cash each day, then drove home for the evening for a good nights sleep, and woke up ready for his next day of begging.
He was quite open about what he was doing and said it was better than working when he took his dole money into consideration as well.
Modern Britain and entrepreneurship at it's best.
He was well educated, spoke very well, spent his day getting food and drink bought for him by people from the Tesco Express over the road, made quite a bit in cash each day, then drove home for the evening for a good nights sleep, and woke up ready for his next day of begging.
He was quite open about what he was doing and said it was better than working when he took his dole money into consideration as well.
Modern Britain and entrepreneurship at it's best.
I was walking home through Ilford with my dad years ago, and we passed a vagrant guy sifting through the litter bins at the bus stops, presumably looking for something edible. I said, “look at that dirty old bugger,” or words to the equivalent. Like a flash, my dad replied,
“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
round where I live is one of the largest concentrations of homeless shelters, NHS doctors which you can register with no fixed abode, food banks, drug dependency clinics, half way houses etc etc etc as such its a magnet for London's addicts, and in turn dealers. Its crack and Heroin.
there are a few who "live" on my street, they walk around begging / robbing cars all day and regroup at 6/7pm to pick up from the same spot, then hit up in a little alcove, where they spend the next 8 hours f
ked and sleeping. pretty bleak life.
there are a few who "live" on my street, they walk around begging / robbing cars all day and regroup at 6/7pm to pick up from the same spot, then hit up in a little alcove, where they spend the next 8 hours f
ked and sleeping. pretty bleak life. Roofless Toothless said:
I was walking home through Ilford with my dad years ago, and we passed a vagrant guy sifting through the litter bins at the bus stops, presumably looking for something edible. I said, “look at that dirty old bugger,” or words to the equivalent. Like a flash, my dad replied,
“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
This^^^^^“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
I know some that have no compassion for the homeless and it sickens me . I pass some on my walk to work most mornings and I also think “ that’s someone’s son”. It massively upsets me.
People with no compassion don’t know their back story or even stop to think there might be one.
I wish as a nation there was more that could be done to help these people.
My mum ran a shop in a town centre for years.
She used to say you had 2 sorts of beggars.
The professional who does it for the money only, often educated and knows exactly what they are doing and how to get the most money out of people. They turn up on time every day with their "uniform" on and once they had made their money they left to go "back to normality".
Then the addicts. They are exactly the same as the first sort.
I used to think it was a weird way of thinking about it but now I understand what she meant.
She used to say you had 2 sorts of beggars.
The professional who does it for the money only, often educated and knows exactly what they are doing and how to get the most money out of people. They turn up on time every day with their "uniform" on and once they had made their money they left to go "back to normality".
Then the addicts. They are exactly the same as the first sort.
I used to think it was a weird way of thinking about it but now I understand what she meant.
GT3Manthey said:
Roofless Toothless said:
I was walking home through Ilford with my dad years ago, and we passed a vagrant guy sifting through the litter bins at the bus stops, presumably looking for something edible. I said, “look at that dirty old bugger,” or words to the equivalent. Like a flash, my dad replied,
“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
This^^^^^“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
I know some that have no compassion for the homeless and it sickens me . I pass some on my walk to work most mornings and I also think “ that’s someone’s son”. It massively upsets me.
People with no compassion don’t know their back story or even stop to think there might be one.
I wish as a nation there was more that could be done to help these people.
Don't get me wrong some of them may have made choices that led to them being where they are but once upon a time as you say they were little boys with dreams & ambitions.
/leftymode off.
Dan_1981 said:
Yup agree with this sentiment. None of these people set out to be where they are.
Don't get me wrong some of them may have made choices that led to them being where they are but once upon a time as you say they were little boys with dreams & ambitions.
/leftymode off.
The people I know who make these comments have kids of their own which is the part I find even harder to comprehend.Don't get me wrong some of them may have made choices that led to them being where they are but once upon a time as you say they were little boys with dreams & ambitions.
/leftymode off.
It can happen to anyone for any number of reasons . It’s not just down to money.
I look at my own kids and pray they never lose their way but you never quite know .
The stress we are all under these days can tip anyone over the edge at any stage
I do understand the "no compassion" side of things and i think its a fine balance.
I watched a TV program a while ago that followed one guy in Central London. He was the director of a reasonably successful small business. Biggest client went off somewhere else. He pumped a load of money into the company to keep people employed and his premises. Remortgaged his house. Then everything fell apart. Company collapsed. Wife left him etc. He ended up homeless. Begged and scrounged food and any money he "earnt" went on a gym membership, food and the longest bus ticket he could afford every night to get some warm, dry kip.
Shower and long workout every morning and evening at the gym, kept a sportsbag full of decent clothes in his locker, including a suit for potential interviews etc. Of course, his unfortunate situation was only temporary and he seemed to be doing "okay" in the grand scheme of things but he was too proud to ask for help and to tell his wider friends and family of his situation.
On the flip side i know of someone who's got a relative that's a user and they exploit every means possible to get the next hit.
They go to thier relatives houses and ask to use the bathroom/shower/cup of tea or whatever and then once inside they steal money, jewellery, electricals. Literally anything that they can sell or trade for some drugs.
His mother is disabled so is vulnerable, and he's ruined her life too. His siblings have absolutely nothing to do with him anymore. Any money she has he gets his hands on. He's taken her phones, TV, anything of any value to sell.
She had sores so one of the siblings took her out for new shoes..
Next time they went round she was wearing her old shoes and she said "oh these old ones are just more comfy". Nope, he'd taken them to sell them for drugs.
He phones round his siblings and family on nearly a monthly basis crying down the phone that he's been told to pay £X money he owes before 10pm or he's gonna get beaten/stabbed/killed.
I watched a TV program a while ago that followed one guy in Central London. He was the director of a reasonably successful small business. Biggest client went off somewhere else. He pumped a load of money into the company to keep people employed and his premises. Remortgaged his house. Then everything fell apart. Company collapsed. Wife left him etc. He ended up homeless. Begged and scrounged food and any money he "earnt" went on a gym membership, food and the longest bus ticket he could afford every night to get some warm, dry kip.
Shower and long workout every morning and evening at the gym, kept a sportsbag full of decent clothes in his locker, including a suit for potential interviews etc. Of course, his unfortunate situation was only temporary and he seemed to be doing "okay" in the grand scheme of things but he was too proud to ask for help and to tell his wider friends and family of his situation.
On the flip side i know of someone who's got a relative that's a user and they exploit every means possible to get the next hit.
They go to thier relatives houses and ask to use the bathroom/shower/cup of tea or whatever and then once inside they steal money, jewellery, electricals. Literally anything that they can sell or trade for some drugs.
His mother is disabled so is vulnerable, and he's ruined her life too. His siblings have absolutely nothing to do with him anymore. Any money she has he gets his hands on. He's taken her phones, TV, anything of any value to sell.
She had sores so one of the siblings took her out for new shoes..
Next time they went round she was wearing her old shoes and she said "oh these old ones are just more comfy". Nope, he'd taken them to sell them for drugs.
He phones round his siblings and family on nearly a monthly basis crying down the phone that he's been told to pay £X money he owes before 10pm or he's gonna get beaten/stabbed/killed.
GT3Manthey said:
I wish as a nation there was more that could be done to help these people.
It's a massively complex issue.It's worth noting that in the UK, there is absolutely no institutionally rooted reason why anyone need sleep on the street or beg for money. No matter how low you find yourself, there is support, a bed, food, water and all the means necessary to provide you the opportunity to haul yourself out of the situation.
The reason you often see so many people in this situation is never singular; addiction, mental health, education....
It's also worth noting that in many parts of the UK, it's estimated that often, well over half those begging are 'professional' beggars; members of gangs that prey on people's generosity.
StevieBee said:
GT3Manthey said:
I wish as a nation there was more that could be done to help these people.
It's a massively complex issue.It's worth noting that in the UK, there is absolutely no institutionally rooted reason why anyone need sleep on the street or beg for money. No matter how low you find yourself, there is support, a bed, food, water and all the means necessary to provide you the opportunity to haul yourself out of the situation.
The reason you often see so many people in this situation is never singular; addiction, mental health, education....
It's also worth noting that in many parts of the UK, it's estimated that often, well over half those begging are 'professional' beggars; members of gangs that prey on people's generosity.
In Thanet, I sometimes see large tents where I think Eastern European families live. They seem very happy and comfortable and spend their leisure time fishing from the various piers and sea walls.
Edited by vikingaero on Wednesday 27th April 10:35
Roofless Toothless said:
I was walking home through Ilford with my dad years ago, and we passed a vagrant guy sifting through the litter bins at the bus stops, presumably looking for something edible. I said, “look at that dirty old bugger,” or words to the equivalent. Like a flash, my dad replied,
“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
Sounds like your dad was a smart man!“That was somebody’s little boy once, and don’t you forget it.”
I had two boys under five at the time, so it struck home, and not for the first time, my dad taught me a valuable lesson in life. None of knows what the future holds for us.
I'm never rude or disrespectul to anyone homeless (or appears to be) but I'm afraid I am guilty of wondering how they get into that situation. How bad does it have to get before you ask for help? Or what's happened that means that no-one will help you? I just can't get my head around how that happens. I guess that means I'm very lucky!
Glassman said:
At least once a week I pass through a part of North London where, for as long as I can remember, I see a couple of homeless guys who appear to be living in makeshift tents at the roadside.
These tents move (not sure if they get moved) from one place to another (always around a busy junction). These shacks are usually made of whatever they can utilise; tarpaulins, bed sheets, cardboard, sheets of ply, or whatever they can find. Exposed to the elements, they don't last long and after a few days - or weeks if they're lucky - another shanty appears (sometimes right next to it) and so the cycle continues.
I'm not sure if they live there full time, however, it looks like they might because they're always there. The only time you see these guys is when they're at the lights with a blanket or duvet draped over their shoulders. They beg; for money. People in the area I know say these guys are addicts. They beg until they get enough and then go and score their next hit from a rendez-vous point. When you think of drug addicts, in this case I believe the substance is heroin, you - or certainly I do - picture an image they might conform to, and here's the twist: these guys, other than looking a bit scruffy, don't look too bad. It got me thinking about what their life must be like.
They're not quite the picture of health, but, for example their hair looks like it gets cut. The clothes they wear don't look that bad. The overall appearance of these guys is synonymous with someone sleeping rough however, that is largely down to the deadpan face and dirty blanket over their shoulders. Begging obviously is working for them. They are at it every day. They are also clearly getting enough to eat, certainly to get by. In one sense, the sight of their shanties is an eyesore and I do wonder how the councils see it, but then again, it's on an industrial road where there are no residents. It is very busy there; a much traffic passes through, stopping at the lights when they switch.
This is their life. And whilst I'm not suggesting they are, or might even be happy, they are living it day to day. You could draw parallels to our own lives where most of us are gainfully employed and perhaps even controlled by those circumstances but life does take a very different catalyst to put you firmly into such a landscape.
My estimate of drug addiction - assuming this is the reason for this kind of living - has always been very different.
@Glassman I drive past there everyday, I'm not saying they all do it, but at least one of those guys drives to the big Tesco's just up the road in a van, parks up, gets the blanket out and starts begging until the end of the day where he get's back in the van and drives home. I'm not sure if they all do it, but It seems to work for him These tents move (not sure if they get moved) from one place to another (always around a busy junction). These shacks are usually made of whatever they can utilise; tarpaulins, bed sheets, cardboard, sheets of ply, or whatever they can find. Exposed to the elements, they don't last long and after a few days - or weeks if they're lucky - another shanty appears (sometimes right next to it) and so the cycle continues.
I'm not sure if they live there full time, however, it looks like they might because they're always there. The only time you see these guys is when they're at the lights with a blanket or duvet draped over their shoulders. They beg; for money. People in the area I know say these guys are addicts. They beg until they get enough and then go and score their next hit from a rendez-vous point. When you think of drug addicts, in this case I believe the substance is heroin, you - or certainly I do - picture an image they might conform to, and here's the twist: these guys, other than looking a bit scruffy, don't look too bad. It got me thinking about what their life must be like.
They're not quite the picture of health, but, for example their hair looks like it gets cut. The clothes they wear don't look that bad. The overall appearance of these guys is synonymous with someone sleeping rough however, that is largely down to the deadpan face and dirty blanket over their shoulders. Begging obviously is working for them. They are at it every day. They are also clearly getting enough to eat, certainly to get by. In one sense, the sight of their shanties is an eyesore and I do wonder how the councils see it, but then again, it's on an industrial road where there are no residents. It is very busy there; a much traffic passes through, stopping at the lights when they switch.
This is their life. And whilst I'm not suggesting they are, or might even be happy, they are living it day to day. You could draw parallels to our own lives where most of us are gainfully employed and perhaps even controlled by those circumstances but life does take a very different catalyst to put you firmly into such a landscape.
My estimate of drug addiction - assuming this is the reason for this kind of living - has always been very different.
In my town, we've seen a big increase in beggars over the last decade or so. They always get referred to as 'the homeless' in the inevitable Facebook posts about them and I'm quite sure some are. But I wonder how many.
I also wonder why they're always male. It's not unknown, but it is extremely rare to see a female beggar.
I also wonder why they're always male. It's not unknown, but it is extremely rare to see a female beggar.
Ari said:
In my town, we've seen a big increase in beggars over the last decade or so. They always get referred to as 'the homeless' in the inevitable Facebook posts about them and I'm quite sure some are. But I wonder how many.
I also wonder why they're always male. It's not unknown, but it is extremely rare to see a female beggar.
Really? I see lots of female Eastern European ones in London and the South East.I also wonder why they're always male. It's not unknown, but it is extremely rare to see a female beggar.
StevieBee said:
GT3Manthey said:
I wish as a nation there was more that could be done to help these people.
It's a massively complex issue.It's worth noting that in the UK, there is absolutely no institutionally rooted reason why anyone need sleep on the street or beg for money. No matter how low you find yourself, there is support, a bed, food, water and all the means necessary to provide you the opportunity to haul yourself out of the situation.
The reason you often see so many people in this situation is never singular; addiction, mental health, education....
It's also worth noting that in many parts of the UK, it's estimated that often, well over half those begging are 'professional' beggars; members of gangs that prey on people's generosity.
From my direct personal experience I can say that in most areas, the vast majority of those who typically rough sleep like the ones described by the OP will have been offered accommodation but many of them prefer to stay out due to complex issues including substance abuse, sexual abuse or MH problems.
I do have a certain amount of sympathy for them but ultimately they need to be prepared to help themselves. Sorry but some just want locking up as a public nuisance. I think well meaning but ultimately naïve people really just encourage the lifestyle by facilitating the problem, particularly by donating cash.
Edited by R56Cooper on Wednesday 27th April 13:50
I read a fascinating book on addiction once, written IIRC by an intelligent woman who had an addict son.
One thing she said struck me, that once somebody becomes an addict all the myriad problems a normal person has go away, to be replaced by just one simple problem, getting the next dose, usually reframed as getting the money for the next dose.
One thing she said struck me, that once somebody becomes an addict all the myriad problems a normal person has go away, to be replaced by just one simple problem, getting the next dose, usually reframed as getting the money for the next dose.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff