Built in obsolescence
Discussion
A Friday morning third cup of coffee rant.
Had a few of my devices give me problems lately, and I've found that the manufacturers are making it more and more difficult to repair and instead want you to buy a new, whatever it is.
Craftsman lawn tractor. I hit a rock and broke the spindle that the blade connects to.
Sears retail stores are no more but you can still get parts from their on-line store. $65, but it's obsolete and no longer stocked, but...................we can sell you a brand new $2000 mower instead.
Ordered a new one from Ebay for $20 and it works just fine.
My DigiLand tablet wouldn't charge because the USB port was broken. Digiand don't sell the USB connector separately but..........we can give you a discount on a new one ($55 instead of $60)
Ebay again and a pack of 10 assorted USB connectors cost me $3 and about 20 minutes with the soldering iron, and it works just fine.
One of my mini split A/C units threw up an error code showing that the indoor and outdoor units had lost communication.
The official factory service manual starts with the "turn it of and then on again", and if that doesn't fix the problem you have to check 3 separate voltages to see if they are in spec. If they are "Replace the indoor control board" ($100), if that doesn't fix it "Replace the outdoor control board" ($350). That's their idea of a diagnosis from the manual that A/C repairmen use.
I took out both control boards and the outdoor one had a capacitor that was bulging at the top. Took it out to test it and it was shorted. Put in a new one that cost about 5 cents and it now works fine.
Over the years I've noticed the same story for cars.
I need a new solenoid for my starter motor but are told "We don't sell them separately, It only comes as a complete unit with the starter"
Same story if the voltage regulator in your alternator quits, you have to buy the complete alternator.
What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
Had a few of my devices give me problems lately, and I've found that the manufacturers are making it more and more difficult to repair and instead want you to buy a new, whatever it is.
Craftsman lawn tractor. I hit a rock and broke the spindle that the blade connects to.
Sears retail stores are no more but you can still get parts from their on-line store. $65, but it's obsolete and no longer stocked, but...................we can sell you a brand new $2000 mower instead.
Ordered a new one from Ebay for $20 and it works just fine.
My DigiLand tablet wouldn't charge because the USB port was broken. Digiand don't sell the USB connector separately but..........we can give you a discount on a new one ($55 instead of $60)
Ebay again and a pack of 10 assorted USB connectors cost me $3 and about 20 minutes with the soldering iron, and it works just fine.
One of my mini split A/C units threw up an error code showing that the indoor and outdoor units had lost communication.
The official factory service manual starts with the "turn it of and then on again", and if that doesn't fix the problem you have to check 3 separate voltages to see if they are in spec. If they are "Replace the indoor control board" ($100), if that doesn't fix it "Replace the outdoor control board" ($350). That's their idea of a diagnosis from the manual that A/C repairmen use.
I took out both control boards and the outdoor one had a capacitor that was bulging at the top. Took it out to test it and it was shorted. Put in a new one that cost about 5 cents and it now works fine.
Over the years I've noticed the same story for cars.
I need a new solenoid for my starter motor but are told "We don't sell them separately, It only comes as a complete unit with the starter"
Same story if the voltage regulator in your alternator quits, you have to buy the complete alternator.
What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
Brooksay said:
Planned obsolescence. We can blame Osram for that, of course.
Slightly different but didn't Henry Ford send out his engineers to examine Model Ts in scrap yards to work out which components were still in perfect condition. Once these parts were identified he told the engineers to downgrade the materials / quality of those parts so that they expired at the same time as everything else - thus saving a ton of money on components.
TorqueDirty said:
Brooksay said:
Planned obsolescence. We can blame Osram for that, of course.
Slightly different but didn't Henry Ford send out his engineers to examine Model Ts in scrap yards to work out which components were still in perfect condition. Once these parts were identified he told the engineers to downgrade the materials / quality of those parts so that they expired at the same time as everything else - thus saving a ton of money on components.
Monkeylegend said:
That is not necessarily built in obsolescence, more manufacturers either not supporting older spare part supply anymore or ripping you off for replacement parts.
If parts are still available cheaply on ebay where is the issue ?
It's just that if you want to support home industry by buying the genuine parts from the manufacturer you can't, your only recourse is to use cheap foreign made parts that don't last.If parts are still available cheaply on ebay where is the issue ?
I will admit that US made parts are now few and far between and they are all foreign made.
TorqueDirty said:
Brooksay said:
Planned obsolescence. We can blame Osram for that, of course.
Slightly different but didn't Henry Ford send out his engineers to examine Model Ts in scrap yards to work out which components were still in perfect condition. Once these parts were identified he told the engineers to downgrade the materials / quality of those parts so that they expired at the same time as everything else - thus saving a ton of money on components.
We sent out field service engineers, to report back on which parts were failing - then improved those parts.
My main grouch is with the A/C system, and that even the official repair manual says "Do a quick check then start throwing expensive parts at it in the hope that one of them will fix the problem"
On a side note there's a gentleman called Louis Rossmann who fought Apple over their refusal to release information on how to fix their products and won. We now have the right to repair act which forces manufacturers of all sorts of thing, including cars, to have information available to independent repair shops.
An example of why he did this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns
On a side note there's a gentleman called Louis Rossmann who fought Apple over their refusal to release information on how to fix their products and won. We now have the right to repair act which forces manufacturers of all sorts of thing, including cars, to have information available to independent repair shops.
An example of why he did this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns
NMNeil said:
A Friday morning third cup of coffee rant.
What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
I used to have a 2014 Volvo V40, it failed the MOT because one bolt had somehow gone missing from a brake caliper... you can't buy the bolt and there was no way to fix it apart from a whole new Volvo brake caliper... that cost £400+ and took a week to come from Belgium!What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
Whataguy said:
NMNeil said:
A Friday morning third cup of coffee rant.
What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
I used to have a 2014 Volvo V40, it failed the MOT because one bolt had somehow gone missing from a brake caliper... you can't buy the bolt and there was no way to fix it apart from a whole new Volvo brake caliper... that cost £400+ and took a week to come from Belgium!What next "I need brake pads for my car" to be told "Sorry we don't sell them separately you have to buy a complete hub, disc and caliper as a unit"
Rant over
I wonder if EV's will end up being like Apple phones, because the phone is a sealed unit, when the battery dies you have to throw it away and buy another one?
having spent a good part of my life in research and development i can assure that these days everything is designed to only last a certain number of cycles, be it a cheap consumer good from the darkest hovel in China a or the most expensive over priced so called "high end" product from one of the top brands. Every producer needs to constantly get new sales and if their products lasted for ever they would be out of business pretty quickly. The world is full of labs testing stuff to destruction and making sure nothing lasts much longer than it warranty + about 50%. Stuff could easily be manufactured to last for ever as it was back in Victorian times. Even stuff produced in the 50's lasted years, but then there was always new customers. Now days everyone already has one, so they need to wear out to get sales.
NMNeil said:
So it's already happening.
I wonder if EV's will end up being like Apple phones, because the phone is a sealed unit, when the battery dies you have to throw it away and buy another one?
There'll be third parties filling the gap, like there are currently for Apple phones, as well as EV's and hybrids.I wonder if EV's will end up being like Apple phones, because the phone is a sealed unit, when the battery dies you have to throw it away and buy another one?
NMNeil said:
So it's already happening.
I wonder if EV's will end up being like Apple phones, because the phone is a sealed unit, when the battery dies you have to throw it away and buy another one?
Apple will now sell you a replacement battery and rent you all the professional-grade kit you need to replace it yourself at home.I wonder if EV's will end up being like Apple phones, because the phone is a sealed unit, when the battery dies you have to throw it away and buy another one?
What you're describing isn't built in obsolescence, built in obsolescence is when a product has been designed to fail from the offset, whether that be a software update or a limited battery life or a computer says no on your smart dishwasher / microwave / toaster affair.
You're talking about a throw away product, something uneconomical to repair so they sell the whole thing, because it's cheaper to make and more profitable, an electronic component on a car part fails, which is attached to something else, i.e the solenoid on an egr cooler, a module controlling something, just replace the whole thing for £1000 and charge the same to fit it, they are usually poorly made, hence the failure.
What would help in most cases is if people learned basic repair of things, some things are out of reach for an amateur, everyone throws away perfectly repairable things because they believe it's broken beyond repair and it's not, sometimes a vacumn hose comes off a car and they believe their turbo is gone etc.
Why landfill is full of stuff, things become old too, but they still work, old computers, phones, hoovers and millions more consumer products wasted, because people have been brain washed into the belief that a shiny new £1500 phone will make them happy, rinse and repeat.
It's nothing new, if you grew up in the 80's you might have spent most Sundays trying to fix your piece of junk Commodore 64 or terrible smoking hot Spectrum ZX or weld some new doors on to your rusting Ford / Vauxhall / British Leyland junk, if it got you home, it was a bonus, maybe clutch change on the side of the road to.
It's called consumerism and it's been around for as long as we've had money to waste on things.
The more complicated things get, the more they become throw away, I guess in the future we'll be renting our electric cars like we do a phone, you'll throw that away too and rent the next shiny one, why own anything? It doesn't make people richer if you keep hold of something like a 70 year old fridge, they want you to pay for the privilege and own nothing.
Certain things are still well made and last a long time, nothing lasts forever, maybe a Record vice or some Sheffield steel or a 80's Fisher Price toy and your Grandads tool chest.
You're talking about a throw away product, something uneconomical to repair so they sell the whole thing, because it's cheaper to make and more profitable, an electronic component on a car part fails, which is attached to something else, i.e the solenoid on an egr cooler, a module controlling something, just replace the whole thing for £1000 and charge the same to fit it, they are usually poorly made, hence the failure.
What would help in most cases is if people learned basic repair of things, some things are out of reach for an amateur, everyone throws away perfectly repairable things because they believe it's broken beyond repair and it's not, sometimes a vacumn hose comes off a car and they believe their turbo is gone etc.
Why landfill is full of stuff, things become old too, but they still work, old computers, phones, hoovers and millions more consumer products wasted, because people have been brain washed into the belief that a shiny new £1500 phone will make them happy, rinse and repeat.
It's nothing new, if you grew up in the 80's you might have spent most Sundays trying to fix your piece of junk Commodore 64 or terrible smoking hot Spectrum ZX or weld some new doors on to your rusting Ford / Vauxhall / British Leyland junk, if it got you home, it was a bonus, maybe clutch change on the side of the road to.
It's called consumerism and it's been around for as long as we've had money to waste on things.
The more complicated things get, the more they become throw away, I guess in the future we'll be renting our electric cars like we do a phone, you'll throw that away too and rent the next shiny one, why own anything? It doesn't make people richer if you keep hold of something like a 70 year old fridge, they want you to pay for the privilege and own nothing.
Certain things are still well made and last a long time, nothing lasts forever, maybe a Record vice or some Sheffield steel or a 80's Fisher Price toy and your Grandads tool chest.
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