Teen son stealing money
Discussion
Far wider issues here, which I don't want to go into but need some techy info.
How is it possible?
His mum says that he stole £150 the other night using her First Direct app on her phone.
She claims that he used the face ID on her whilst she was asleep.
I thought that to send money to a new account you also needed the security code?
Last night he took £100 by setting up a PayPal account connected to her bank card.
Is it really that easy to do?
I only ask as I'm incredulous and wonder if she is the one making things up.
Although saying that, ages ago, the older boy found a way of charging PlayStation stuff to the long number of the SIM card on her boyfriend's phone
How is it possible?
His mum says that he stole £150 the other night using her First Direct app on her phone.
She claims that he used the face ID on her whilst she was asleep.
I thought that to send money to a new account you also needed the security code?
Last night he took £100 by setting up a PayPal account connected to her bank card.
Is it really that easy to do?
I only ask as I'm incredulous and wonder if she is the one making things up.
Although saying that, ages ago, the older boy found a way of charging PlayStation stuff to the long number of the SIM card on her boyfriend's phone
Edited by croyde on Thursday 6th April 09:09
Face ID is treated as a strong level of authentication. And even if you did need a code, if he has her phone, then he’ll have access to any security codes that would be sent.
And setting up a linked PayPal would be possible, if he has access to her phone.
Get her to update her pins, and require eyes to be open for faceID.
And setting up a linked PayPal would be possible, if he has access to her phone.
Get her to update her pins, and require eyes to be open for faceID.
Not sure about First Direct, but with other banks you can certainly send small amounts (ie, sub £1000) from the apps to new payees without going through lots of additional security (my main account is with NatWest and I recently had to do a transfer that need the card reader to generate a code, but the battery was flat so I just did in in two transactions over two days).
If you had access to the physical bank card then I can't see why you couldn't setup paypal against it. The card holder would find out fairly quickly, as sounds like is the case here.
If you had access to the physical bank card then I can't see why you couldn't setup paypal against it. The card holder would find out fairly quickly, as sounds like is the case here.
croyde said:
So disturbingly easy if she has left her phone lying around, along with her bank cards.
Blimey!
I've no Idea, but having read quite a few posts from you about her before, I'd be approaching with a large dose of skepticism. Especially if she's asking you to help with the funds.Blimey!
I would actually be inclined to:
1) Change the passcode(s)
2) Remove FaceID completely and then re-set it up - he may have added his own face to the security system (this is easily done under the "Alternative Appearance" functionality
3) Make sure that "Require Attention" is activated so its not just eyes open, but eyes open looking at the FaceID sensor(s)
I would also stop access to all items when locked (control centre / widgets / Siri / etc.)
1) Change the passcode(s)
2) Remove FaceID completely and then re-set it up - he may have added his own face to the security system (this is easily done under the "Alternative Appearance" functionality
3) Make sure that "Require Attention" is activated so its not just eyes open, but eyes open looking at the FaceID sensor(s)
I would also stop access to all items when locked (control centre / widgets / Siri / etc.)
croyde said:
Far wider issues here, which I don't want to go into but need some techy info.
How is it possible?
His mum says that he stole £150 the other night using her First Direct app on her phone.
She claims that he used the face ID on her whilst she was asleep.
I thought that to send money to a new account you also needed the security code?
Last night he took £100 by setting up a PayPal account connected to her bank card.
Is it really that easy to do?
I only ask as I'm incredulous and wonder if she is the one making things up.
Although saying that, ages ago, the older boy found a way of charging PlayStation stuff to the long number of the SIM card on her boyfriend's phone
I tested just now and struggled to get the iphone to unlock without having my eyes open. However you can unlock it with the code anyway, so maybe he just knows the code. Kids can be very quick to learn things and guess them - my kids worked out the code for ScreenTime on their ipads and it was a while before we really noticed they were still using them beyond the officially allowed time limits.How is it possible?
His mum says that he stole £150 the other night using her First Direct app on her phone.
She claims that he used the face ID on her whilst she was asleep.
I thought that to send money to a new account you also needed the security code?
Last night he took £100 by setting up a PayPal account connected to her bank card.
Is it really that easy to do?
I only ask as I'm incredulous and wonder if she is the one making things up.
Although saying that, ages ago, the older boy found a way of charging PlayStation stuff to the long number of the SIM card on her boyfriend's phone
Edited by croyde on Thursday 6th April 09:09
Regarding the sending of money from her account to his, surely the most likely explanation is that she already has his account saved in her FirstDirect app? If FaceID is not configured to 'require attention' then to unlock the phone and open the app might well only take a few seconds, and because he's already in there as an existing payee, not require further codes after that. I just sent a £1 payment to our joint account from my personal one, the only time it needed FaceID or a code was when first opening the banking app for my personal account.
My best guess is that either FaceID isn't configured correctly, or he knows the code. And it's probably the same code for the banking app and PayPal as to unlock the phone, which is dumb but extremely common. Either way, as already mentioned, if it's happening at all then you need two long chats, one with his mum about security, and another with him about more serious matters.
Alorotom said:
I would actually be inclined to:
1) Change the passcode(s)
2) Remove FaceID completely and then re-set it up - he may have added his own face to the security system (this is easily done under the "Alternative Appearance" functionality
3) Make sure that "Require Attention" is activated so its not just eyes open, but eyes open looking at the FaceID sensor(s)
I would also stop access to all items when locked (control centre / widgets / Siri / etc.)
You can't change biometric setting without entering a PIN or Password. So even if you had someone's unlocked phone, you can't register your own face or fingerprint without first entering the PIN/Password.1) Change the passcode(s)
2) Remove FaceID completely and then re-set it up - he may have added his own face to the security system (this is easily done under the "Alternative Appearance" functionality
3) Make sure that "Require Attention" is activated so its not just eyes open, but eyes open looking at the FaceID sensor(s)
I would also stop access to all items when locked (control centre / widgets / Siri / etc.)
I don't like the idea of having a banking app that gives instant access to my finances to anyone who gets into my phone. So I don't use apps for banking (or Paypal or Amazon). I use online banking through the browser, which is set to not remember my password and 16-digit username, so anyone would have to know these and manually type them in.
Having said that, as others have said, the main issue here is not cybersecurity but more fundamental concerns of honesty, trust and ethics within a family.
Having said that, as others have said, the main issue here is not cybersecurity but more fundamental concerns of honesty, trust and ethics within a family.
Granadier said:
I don't like the idea of having a banking app that gives instant access to my finances to anyone who gets into my phone. So I don't use apps for banking (or Paypal or Amazon). I use online banking through the browser, which is set to not remember my password and 16-digit username, so anyone would have to know these and manually type them in.
Having said that, as others have said, the main issue here is not cybersecurity but more fundamental concerns of honesty, trust and ethics within a family.
None of my banking apps give instant access.Having said that, as others have said, the main issue here is not cybersecurity but more fundamental concerns of honesty, trust and ethics within a family.
They require fingerprint or passcodes,sometimes both
AJZ1 said:
The Face ID thing sounds complete rubbish, i just tried on my phone and it woudnt unlock without my eyes open.
Unless she sleeps on her back with her eyes open it doesnt seem possible
Aye, I'd question that. My face ID only works with my whole face, eyes open. I've only ever seen the unlocking an unconscious persons phone with face id thing on TV.Unless she sleeps on her back with her eyes open it doesnt seem possible
V8covin said:
None of my banking apps give instant access.
They require fingerprint or passcodes,sometimes both
And also, if you have contactless payment set up, it must be locked. So if you have setup contactless payment, and then remove the lock, the payment method is instantly removed and you have to set it up again.They require fingerprint or passcodes,sometimes both
croyde said:
So disturbingly easy if she has left her phone lying around, along with her bank cards.
Blimey!
Make sure to ensure that the phone is set NOT to show notification contents when locked as it will display one-time security codes etc otherwise.. FaceID should require eyes to be open to work.Blimey!
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