Lack of Social Confidence / Sitting Alone in a Corner
Discussion
I’ve had a lifetime of this and am - generally - happy with it now. With age comes the knowledge and confidence not to put oneself in painful places! Sort of way someone with acute arachnophobia eventually learns not to book trips to Spiderworld.
Occasionally it comes back to bite me (had several rants in the Watch forum, genuinely hurt by being permanently bounced down the list in my thwarted attempts to buy a Rolex!).
Back again. We’ve joined a smart yacht club, as our athletic / adrenaline junkie thirteen year old likes sailing. My wife knew one existing member to propose us, I was happy to email round work to find a seconder.
So four weeks in, my life has a new rhythm. I take my son. He’s greeted enthusiastically and goes out on the water with his mates for two or three hours, sorts the boats and equipment out afterwards, showers, changes, and adjourns to the restaurant and lounge.
I sit in the corner with a book (history of the East India Company this week), one small red wine, then one frothy coffee. Tried to talk to other people, but they’re all in groups. Tried volunteering to help (I have piles of powerboat, marine radio, sea survival, qualifications, mainly from working on the 2012 Olympics) - no response. Know one person’s name - the barman (he’s lovely). Go home fed up and touchy . . . not really the idea of joining!
People want me when they need something (I do very niche mathsy / geeky stuff at work). But only then.
Occasionally it comes back to bite me (had several rants in the Watch forum, genuinely hurt by being permanently bounced down the list in my thwarted attempts to buy a Rolex!).
Back again. We’ve joined a smart yacht club, as our athletic / adrenaline junkie thirteen year old likes sailing. My wife knew one existing member to propose us, I was happy to email round work to find a seconder.
So four weeks in, my life has a new rhythm. I take my son. He’s greeted enthusiastically and goes out on the water with his mates for two or three hours, sorts the boats and equipment out afterwards, showers, changes, and adjourns to the restaurant and lounge.
I sit in the corner with a book (history of the East India Company this week), one small red wine, then one frothy coffee. Tried to talk to other people, but they’re all in groups. Tried volunteering to help (I have piles of powerboat, marine radio, sea survival, qualifications, mainly from working on the 2012 Olympics) - no response. Know one person’s name - the barman (he’s lovely). Go home fed up and touchy . . . not really the idea of joining!
People want me when they need something (I do very niche mathsy / geeky stuff at work). But only then.
Don't sit in the corner reading - go and look at the boats, or sit at the big window looking out at the boats. It's much the same with kids birthday parties - drop the kids off and hang around with a couple of hours to kill in a jungle gym/football club/jump street type affair. But just start chatting to people, nothing heavy, but after a couple of times, you'll be recognised and people will think "Oh, there's Dave, he's a friendly chap, I'll go and say hello rather than sit here on my own" and things should just start to flow. Don't talk about work, or religion, or politics, and don't try to "big man" it or willy-wave (not saying you are, but IME that's a type of person to ignore if you're just trying to relax and kill time).
Maybe go out and help the kids pack away, bit of encouragement or such like for your boy and his mates - there's nothing wrong with chatting to the other lads who sail with your boy. Again, if you appear to be a friendly chap then you will naturally cause people to be more welcoming/accepting/whatever.
Is the club particularly cliquey? Not trying to be rude but you reference a Rolex - is a blingy watch a requisite to feel accepted at the club (either by them or by you)?
Maybe go out and help the kids pack away, bit of encouragement or such like for your boy and his mates - there's nothing wrong with chatting to the other lads who sail with your boy. Again, if you appear to be a friendly chap then you will naturally cause people to be more welcoming/accepting/whatever.
Is the club particularly cliquey? Not trying to be rude but you reference a Rolex - is a blingy watch a requisite to feel accepted at the club (either by them or by you)?
I make a habit of seeking out those people who are like you. Sat on their own, nothing to prove and may possibly be someone worth finding out more about as they aren’t trying to fit in.
Why bother trying to fit in when we are all born to stand out, I once read.
There will be someone you can nod to, even say hello to, who will reciprocate and then you may find someone genuinely worth talking to.
As social animals it’s nice to be part of a group, but often there’s some right toxic/sycophantic/desperate folk all clinging together for fear of not being one of the clique.
Happy to be a loner than sidle up to folk who are so shallow they’d make a tea saucer look deep.
Why bother trying to fit in when we are all born to stand out, I once read.
There will be someone you can nod to, even say hello to, who will reciprocate and then you may find someone genuinely worth talking to.
As social animals it’s nice to be part of a group, but often there’s some right toxic/sycophantic/desperate folk all clinging together for fear of not being one of the clique.
Happy to be a loner than sidle up to folk who are so shallow they’d make a tea saucer look deep.
If I walked into a clubhouse or such and saw a guy sat in the corner reading a book. Or a guy just sat at the bar I'd naturally approach the guy at the bar for a chat. I would personally find it a bit rude / annoying if someone came up to me whilst I was reading a book so I wouldn't really do it to someone else. Maybe ditch the book and get stuck in more ?
Axionknight said:
Octoposse said:
genuinely hurt by being permanently bounced down the list in my thwarted attempts to buy a Rolex!).
Genuinely heartbreaking stuff, this A question; do you actually want to be talking to these groups of people? Will that make you happier than sitting alone reading your books? Because if it won't why are you even worried?
I would absolutely HATE to be dragged to a Yacht club and without wanting to judge too much I'd hate having to make conversation with people there. I'd be very happy with my family doing what they enjoy and making friends and leaving me out of it, that's something that comes with becoming more confident in yourself. There's a book, don't remember the name of it but it's something along the lines of helping you learn this. Tells you to go out to eat by yourself, go to the cinema by yourself etc etc.
I've done both and you know what? Blissful. Don't get me wrong I enjoy people and social settings where I have a genuine interest in the subject but I also immensely enjoy people watching. So I'm happy either way.
If however you do want to join in these groups, it sound like you'll have to make a bit of effort. You don't sound like the type who finds it easy to turn up somewhere where you don't know anyone and engage with people right off the bat. Nothing wrong with that., most of the time those types of people are tools (in a business setting anyway).
So, next time you're going have a think about some topics/subjects that you can bring up to talk about that will be relevant in the environment. I have no clue about Yachting, maybe watches would be a good starting point? There's a whole thread on here about the Rolex market, start with that. Wander up to a group, introduce yourself politely, listen a bit and when the convo dies down ask for everyone's opinion on something to do with Rolex. Scan people's wrists, see if it's the right crowd first. Then lead with something like "Are you finding it a little easier to get the watches your looking for from your AD recently?". That let's others know what you're interested in, you'll have some decent knowledge to share and maybe make a connection to someone who can bump you up that list!
A personal example of this, I have no children, have no interest in children. I also don't really follow football, can't play it. But at work, if I knew I was going to be talking to people who had interests in both I'd make sure I was prepped. Just enough to have maybe a 5 min convo about either if needed. What you find is your knowledge of these subjects builds as others talk especially if they're passionate about it. You can then use this knowledge in other conversations and you get better at it.
Hope that helps.
I would absolutely HATE to be dragged to a Yacht club and without wanting to judge too much I'd hate having to make conversation with people there. I'd be very happy with my family doing what they enjoy and making friends and leaving me out of it, that's something that comes with becoming more confident in yourself. There's a book, don't remember the name of it but it's something along the lines of helping you learn this. Tells you to go out to eat by yourself, go to the cinema by yourself etc etc.
I've done both and you know what? Blissful. Don't get me wrong I enjoy people and social settings where I have a genuine interest in the subject but I also immensely enjoy people watching. So I'm happy either way.
If however you do want to join in these groups, it sound like you'll have to make a bit of effort. You don't sound like the type who finds it easy to turn up somewhere where you don't know anyone and engage with people right off the bat. Nothing wrong with that., most of the time those types of people are tools (in a business setting anyway).
So, next time you're going have a think about some topics/subjects that you can bring up to talk about that will be relevant in the environment. I have no clue about Yachting, maybe watches would be a good starting point? There's a whole thread on here about the Rolex market, start with that. Wander up to a group, introduce yourself politely, listen a bit and when the convo dies down ask for everyone's opinion on something to do with Rolex. Scan people's wrists, see if it's the right crowd first. Then lead with something like "Are you finding it a little easier to get the watches your looking for from your AD recently?". That let's others know what you're interested in, you'll have some decent knowledge to share and maybe make a connection to someone who can bump you up that list!
A personal example of this, I have no children, have no interest in children. I also don't really follow football, can't play it. But at work, if I knew I was going to be talking to people who had interests in both I'd make sure I was prepped. Just enough to have maybe a 5 min convo about either if needed. What you find is your knowledge of these subjects builds as others talk especially if they're passionate about it. You can then use this knowledge in other conversations and you get better at it.
Hope that helps.
From what you've described, you are giving out strong and unmistakable 'leave me alone' signals, so not surprising you're not being engaged.
As another poster said, move around the club, smile at people and say hi. Look at boats and compliment people on them. As said, nothing creepy and ingratiating but just the odd remark.
Work out who are the parents of the kids your offspring sails with and say hi to them. You have an immediate and legitimate reason to talk to them and ask them how their kids are finding it.
Always remember that the secret to getting a conversation going with strangers is to ask questions. "How are you?/Out on the water today?/What do you sail?/How long have you been a member?" etc. Remember, most people like talking about themselves so let them
Volunteering to help is a good one but, rather than just emailing, wander up to the race officer/on-duty officer. Get to know who the Commodore/Vice Commodore/Rear Commodore are and talk to them. It's their job to make new members feel welcome and integrate them into the club and I'm surprised they havent already taken you under their wing.
As another poster said, move around the club, smile at people and say hi. Look at boats and compliment people on them. As said, nothing creepy and ingratiating but just the odd remark.
Work out who are the parents of the kids your offspring sails with and say hi to them. You have an immediate and legitimate reason to talk to them and ask them how their kids are finding it.
Always remember that the secret to getting a conversation going with strangers is to ask questions. "How are you?/Out on the water today?/What do you sail?/How long have you been a member?" etc. Remember, most people like talking about themselves so let them
Volunteering to help is a good one but, rather than just emailing, wander up to the race officer/on-duty officer. Get to know who the Commodore/Vice Commodore/Rear Commodore are and talk to them. It's their job to make new members feel welcome and integrate them into the club and I'm surprised they havent already taken you under their wing.
oddman said:
Isn't the answer to join in the sailing? Someone will be looking for crew or at least some help with this, that or the other
I'm an introvert so know where you're coming from but why would anyone talk to the weirdo in the corner reading a book?
In my defence, the retreat to the corner with a book was the fall-back position to the abject failure to get more than two sentences - albeit absolutely friendly ones - out of anyone before they retreated to their group.I'm an introvert so know where you're coming from but why would anyone talk to the weirdo in the corner reading a book?
Absolutely not interested in sailing (a social worker sent me on the London Sailing Project in the 1970s, and it was without doubt the worst week of my life . . . and I include the week where I got stabbed in that!). Hoped they’d want my Powerboat - Safety Boat - Sea Survival - VHF Radio qualifications for their volunteer rota, but nothing yet. Will remind them next visit.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Volunteering to help is a good one but, rather than just emailing, wander up to the race officer/on-duty officer. Get to know who the Commodore/Vice Commodore/Rear Commodore are and talk to them. It's their job to make new members feel welcome and integrate them into the club and I'm surprised they havent already taken you under their wing.
Thanks - will do. There again on Friday, and now feeling slightly less bruised than when I got home last night! (And then brooded on overnight).An email to the sailing club committee outlining your previous experience and offering to help is likely to get a better reponse than you have had so far.
I know from a relative of mine who maintains the safety boats and engines at his club, that well-meaning but inept efforts of others cause him a great deal of grief, wasted time and resources, particularly with the regard to the outboards, so expect to be treated with caution until they really get to know you.
I know from a relative of mine who maintains the safety boats and engines at his club, that well-meaning but inept efforts of others cause him a great deal of grief, wasted time and resources, particularly with the regard to the outboards, so expect to be treated with caution until they really get to know you.
Just to add to the above
You're entering their club. This is a completely different social dynamic to meeting the parents of one of your child's friends at the school gate for the first time.
People love to talk about themselves. So ask a question - how long have you been a member, do you sail yourself, does your whole family sail, how/why did you start sailing, have you always sailed around here, where else have you sailed, do you own a boat, teenagers eh tut? etc etc. *Listen* to what they say. Ask them another question about what they've said. And repeat.
You will find yourself having a long 'conversation' without having to say very much beyond appearing interested.
When you find a common experience, share it. Don't be a dick and one up man their anecdotes/stories. Don't start with 'Well when I was working at the Olympics back in 2012... or ...When I was sailing around the Bahamas etc'.
Be nice. Be friendly.
Manage your expectations. You're not going to get invited back to their's for dinner after a 5 minute chat at the bar
You said the barman is friendly. Ask them who the characters are and ask him to introduce you to them next time they're at the bar.
You're entering their club. This is a completely different social dynamic to meeting the parents of one of your child's friends at the school gate for the first time.
People love to talk about themselves. So ask a question - how long have you been a member, do you sail yourself, does your whole family sail, how/why did you start sailing, have you always sailed around here, where else have you sailed, do you own a boat, teenagers eh tut? etc etc. *Listen* to what they say. Ask them another question about what they've said. And repeat.
You will find yourself having a long 'conversation' without having to say very much beyond appearing interested.
When you find a common experience, share it. Don't be a dick and one up man their anecdotes/stories. Don't start with 'Well when I was working at the Olympics back in 2012... or ...When I was sailing around the Bahamas etc'.
Be nice. Be friendly.
Manage your expectations. You're not going to get invited back to their's for dinner after a 5 minute chat at the bar
You said the barman is friendly. Ask them who the characters are and ask him to introduce you to them next time they're at the bar.
Octoposse said:
oddman said:
Isn't the answer to join in the sailing? Someone will be looking for crew or at least some help with this, that or the other
I'm an introvert so know where you're coming from but why would anyone talk to the weirdo in the corner reading a book?
In my defence, the retreat to the corner with a book was the fall-back position to the abject failure to get more than two sentences - albeit absolutely friendly ones - out of anyone before they retreated to their group.I'm an introvert so know where you're coming from but why would anyone talk to the weirdo in the corner reading a book?
Absolutely not interested in sailing (a social worker sent me on the London Sailing Project in the 1970s, and it was without doubt the worst week of my life . . . and I include the week where I got stabbed in that!). Hoped they’d want my Powerboat - Safety Boat - Sea Survival - VHF Radio qualifications for their volunteer rota, but nothing yet. Will remind them next visit.
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