Helping someone that wont accept help?
Discussion
Looking for PH collective thoughts or experience on this one.
I have a friend who in fairness has had a bloody rough time of it over the last few years. Won't go into details as is he is an Ex Pher and someone might know him. But essentially gone from nice cars, house, travel, Mrs, good job to alone, driving a s
tbox, failed business, penniless mostly through no fault of his own (Mrs screwed him over and Covid killed the business).
Anyway, for the last year or so now we get regular posts on facebook by him saying how miserable he is, how everyone wishes he would die, he cant afford to do anything, may as well just kill himself etc.
Pretty sure he is, understandably, depressed. He is impossible to help though. People say kind words, offer help, and he always has an answer for why the help is no good, or it is offensive to him in some way if someone compares an awful situation they have been through to his to help him see the light.
He wont seek help, on his own or from professionals, even if free, as he wont acknowledge he has a problem or is the problem.
I'd march him to a GP or support group myself but live 250miles away.
Despite his constant threats to end it all he has never attempted it and has said he is too scared so even a failure at that.
I just don't know what to do with him. I don't want him to end it all, he lives in a lovely part of the country and could have a decent life if he would just acknowledge he has a problem and work at sorting it. But he thinks any life crappier than the one he previously had is not worth living.
People have near enough given up on replying to his Facebook posts now as they have nothing left to say that wont get them moaned at so now he is moaning about that too.
I want to have a fairly stern conversation with him and make him try and see what everyone else can see but worry it will be too harsh and might send him over the edge.
Rambling a bit now really so will leave it open to the floor, I'll try and furnish with any useful details if any info is required.
So any ideas PH on how to handle someone like this.
I have a friend who in fairness has had a bloody rough time of it over the last few years. Won't go into details as is he is an Ex Pher and someone might know him. But essentially gone from nice cars, house, travel, Mrs, good job to alone, driving a s
tbox, failed business, penniless mostly through no fault of his own (Mrs screwed him over and Covid killed the business).Anyway, for the last year or so now we get regular posts on facebook by him saying how miserable he is, how everyone wishes he would die, he cant afford to do anything, may as well just kill himself etc.
Pretty sure he is, understandably, depressed. He is impossible to help though. People say kind words, offer help, and he always has an answer for why the help is no good, or it is offensive to him in some way if someone compares an awful situation they have been through to his to help him see the light.
He wont seek help, on his own or from professionals, even if free, as he wont acknowledge he has a problem or is the problem.
I'd march him to a GP or support group myself but live 250miles away.
Despite his constant threats to end it all he has never attempted it and has said he is too scared so even a failure at that.
I just don't know what to do with him. I don't want him to end it all, he lives in a lovely part of the country and could have a decent life if he would just acknowledge he has a problem and work at sorting it. But he thinks any life crappier than the one he previously had is not worth living.
People have near enough given up on replying to his Facebook posts now as they have nothing left to say that wont get them moaned at so now he is moaning about that too.
I want to have a fairly stern conversation with him and make him try and see what everyone else can see but worry it will be too harsh and might send him over the edge.
Rambling a bit now really so will leave it open to the floor, I'll try and furnish with any useful details if any info is required.
So any ideas PH on how to handle someone like this.
Are there any local groups specifically for men to meet similar people,I struggled for a bit a year or so ago and my wife got in touch with a group,I wasn’t keen at all but I knew myself that something had to give so turned up and it was an amazing experience,no judgement just guys talking about anything and I mean anything nothing is off limits.
I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
Kuwahara said:
Are there any local groups specifically for men to meet similar people,I struggled for a bit a year or so ago and my wife got in touch with a group,I wasn’t keen at all but I knew myself that something had to give so turned up and it was an amazing experience,no judgement just guys talking about anything and I mean anything nothing is off limits.
I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
This. There is a Facebook group called something like “men walking and talking” and it’s local people meeting up a weekday evening for a chat, a walk and sometimes a pint etc. why not invite him along and don’t say exactly what it is I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
Kuwahara said:
Are there any local groups specifically for men to meet similar people,I struggled for a bit a year or so ago and my wife got in touch with a group,I wasn’t keen at all but I knew myself that something had to give so turned up and it was an amazing experience,no judgement just guys talking about anything and I mean anything nothing is off limits.
I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
I've seen others recommend this: https://andysmanclub.co.uk/I’m back to where I was before but still go offer some support or just someone to vent off to ,some people are going through absolute hell in this country…
Although it does seem the former PHer mentioned should probably be considering speaking to their GP as well.
Thanks for the suggestions. Both of those things sound like what he needs, someone to socialise with and offload to. Annoyingly neither have meets anywhere near him and he can’t afford to travel.
I’ll suggest them to him anyway as they seem to have online options but think he will wee on that particular bonfire.
I’ll have a Google for similar things in his area, south end of the Lake District if anyone knows of any.
I’ll suggest them to him anyway as they seem to have online options but think he will wee on that particular bonfire.
I’ll have a Google for similar things in his area, south end of the Lake District if anyone knows of any.
I was as guilty as anyone of saying nice stuff and turning a blind eye to people’s issues but after attending the men’s group it’s clear some of these guys would not be here if someone had not taken the time to help them along the way ,it’s been a real eye opener and this stuff is going on everywhere.
I’ve found I’m way more tolerant towards people who may be having a moan about what seems small problems as that can often be the trigger to much bigger actions and in some cases the ultimate decision to take it further.
Does he have any family members you can confide in to maybe intervene and show him that people do care ,that is usually the first step to getting their head out of the constant fog and see things a bit more clearly,that can take time though and can be frustrating but I’ve seen guys who looked like they were absolutely done completely broken and they can be such great company after attending the group ,don’t underestimate the power of talking it is the best therapy especially in the early stages .
It’s a cycle that needs broken with patience and understanding and that can be a real test for yourself and your mate ,stick at it and it will get better.
There is no shame in seeking help and I never thought I would have too but thanks to the group and my wife I’ve come out the other side ,still have some bad days but nobody has the perfect life even if it appears to be on the surface.
Hope things work out
I’ve found I’m way more tolerant towards people who may be having a moan about what seems small problems as that can often be the trigger to much bigger actions and in some cases the ultimate decision to take it further.
Does he have any family members you can confide in to maybe intervene and show him that people do care ,that is usually the first step to getting their head out of the constant fog and see things a bit more clearly,that can take time though and can be frustrating but I’ve seen guys who looked like they were absolutely done completely broken and they can be such great company after attending the group ,don’t underestimate the power of talking it is the best therapy especially in the early stages .
It’s a cycle that needs broken with patience and understanding and that can be a real test for yourself and your mate ,stick at it and it will get better.
There is no shame in seeking help and I never thought I would have too but thanks to the group and my wife I’ve come out the other side ,still have some bad days but nobody has the perfect life even if it appears to be on the surface.
Hope things work out
Edited by Kuwahara on Tuesday 1st August 22:32
Kuwahara said:
I was as guilty as anyone of saying nice stuff and turning a blind eye to people’s issues but after attending the men’s group it’s clear some of these guys would not be here if someone had not taken the time to help them along the way ,it’s been a real eye opener and this stuff is going on everywhere.
I’ve found I’m way more tolerant towards people who may be having a moan about what seems small problems as that can often be the trigger to much bigger actions and in some cases the ultimate decision to take it further.
Does he have any family members you can confide in to maybe intervene and show him that people do care ,that is usually the first step to getting their head out of the constant fog and see things a bit more clearly,that can take time though and can be frustrating but I’ve seen guys who looked like they were absolutely done completely broken and they can be such great company after attending the group ,don’t underestimate the power of talking it is the best therapy especially in the early stages .
It’s a cycle that needs broken with patience and understanding and that can be a real test for yourself and your mate ,stick at it and it will get better.
There is no shame in seeking help and I never thought I would have too but thanks to the group and my wife I’ve come out the other side ,still have some bad days but nobody has the perfect life even if it appears to be on the surface.
Hope things work out
It’s supposed to be word - comma - space - word.I’ve found I’m way more tolerant towards people who may be having a moan about what seems small problems as that can often be the trigger to much bigger actions and in some cases the ultimate decision to take it further.
Does he have any family members you can confide in to maybe intervene and show him that people do care ,that is usually the first step to getting their head out of the constant fog and see things a bit more clearly,that can take time though and can be frustrating but I’ve seen guys who looked like they were absolutely done completely broken and they can be such great company after attending the group ,don’t underestimate the power of talking it is the best therapy especially in the early stages .
It’s a cycle that needs broken with patience and understanding and that can be a real test for yourself and your mate ,stick at it and it will get better.
There is no shame in seeking help and I never thought I would have too but thanks to the group and my wife I’ve come out the other side ,still have some bad days but nobody has the perfect life even if it appears to be on the surface.
Hope things work out
Edited by Kuwahara on Tuesday 1st August 22:32
glenrobbo said:
Maxym said:
It’s supposed to be word - comma - space - word.
It's reassuring to know that the Grammar Police are constantly vigilant, never sleeping in the quest to right those tiny wrongs, because the big issue here is so unimportant.
Good grief.
Make sure he realises that there are people like yourself that genuinely care. He may try to push you away but if he does, tell him he can talk to you whenever he feels like talking. Impress on him that nothing lasts forever, he will have happy times in the future. I don't think it's worth pointing out there are people worse off than him, as he may just think 'wat an awful world' If he talks about ending it, point out that this is permanent whereas his problems are temporary, and that if he ends it now he won't see happiness again.
If he seems really intent on ending it you may have to get harsh and point out if he tries and fails, the best outcome would be he is locked up for his own safety (sectioned) which would mean loss of freedom. The worst outcomes are he could badly hurt himself and be hospitalised and in pain for the rest of his life, which would also mean loss of freedom. I did know someone who jumped off a high cliff and as soon as he jumped he changed his mind. He survived, but lost his legs and was in pain for the rest of his life(rip Bill). I would only talk about these things as a last resort though as it can sound a bit heartless.
Emphasize thet you consider him a friend and hate to see him suffer. Try and spend time with him if he will let you, but have patience. Has he seen his GP? He can refer him to counselling, CBT etc but this may take awhile. Be aware that your friend may have depression for the rest of his life, but it is possible to live with it and not constantly suffer. Remember it is ultimately up to your friend to cope, you can help but you can't do it all for him. There are good reasons to be alive, you just have to help your friend find them. Some or all of this may not be relevant, as depression is different for everybody, but hopefully some of this helps, or points you in the right direction.
Good luck to you and your friend.
If he seems really intent on ending it you may have to get harsh and point out if he tries and fails, the best outcome would be he is locked up for his own safety (sectioned) which would mean loss of freedom. The worst outcomes are he could badly hurt himself and be hospitalised and in pain for the rest of his life, which would also mean loss of freedom. I did know someone who jumped off a high cliff and as soon as he jumped he changed his mind. He survived, but lost his legs and was in pain for the rest of his life(rip Bill). I would only talk about these things as a last resort though as it can sound a bit heartless.
Emphasize thet you consider him a friend and hate to see him suffer. Try and spend time with him if he will let you, but have patience. Has he seen his GP? He can refer him to counselling, CBT etc but this may take awhile. Be aware that your friend may have depression for the rest of his life, but it is possible to live with it and not constantly suffer. Remember it is ultimately up to your friend to cope, you can help but you can't do it all for him. There are good reasons to be alive, you just have to help your friend find them. Some or all of this may not be relevant, as depression is different for everybody, but hopefully some of this helps, or points you in the right direction.
Good luck to you and your friend.
I have a friend in a near identical situation. So much so that were it not for the fact you mention your friend as previously frequenting PH, I'd have said it's the same bloke. My friend sold his business when he was 42 which made him a very high net worth individual. He turned 60 this year. A string of failed businesses, two failed marriages (of which he is still in one) and no money.
I tried to help. I found him work, business partners that could have made a difference, did the tough-love thing.....
Fact is that there is sadly very little you can do. And there's a danger in that your good nature sees you making your friend's wellbeing the centre of your life at the expense of your own life in terms of your family and other friends. I've lost money, a bit of credibility and a lot of time that could have been better spent. I'd be happy with this had it yielded a positive outcome but it hasn't and it won't.
My view is that the majority of people in this sort of position are hard-wired to be that way. Something I observed with my friend was that he would embrace failure if that failure could be attributable to something or someone else rather than pursue success. He's gotten so close to having some positive breakthroughs only to abandon it because of something happening that he could have easily overcome.
Well rounded individuals are able to navigate around life's challenges, no matter how big those challenges are.
The best you can do is simply be a regular part of his life. A weekly beer, coffee. Keep him aware that you are there for him.
I tried to help. I found him work, business partners that could have made a difference, did the tough-love thing.....
Fact is that there is sadly very little you can do. And there's a danger in that your good nature sees you making your friend's wellbeing the centre of your life at the expense of your own life in terms of your family and other friends. I've lost money, a bit of credibility and a lot of time that could have been better spent. I'd be happy with this had it yielded a positive outcome but it hasn't and it won't.
My view is that the majority of people in this sort of position are hard-wired to be that way. Something I observed with my friend was that he would embrace failure if that failure could be attributable to something or someone else rather than pursue success. He's gotten so close to having some positive breakthroughs only to abandon it because of something happening that he could have easily overcome.
Well rounded individuals are able to navigate around life's challenges, no matter how big those challenges are.
The best you can do is simply be a regular part of his life. A weekly beer, coffee. Keep him aware that you are there for him.
The OP stated that he lives 250 miles away from the poor chap, so a weekly meet-up for a coffee is a bit of a tall order.
However, regular chats over the phone about any diverse things of mutual interest can be a great diversion and help lift the mood.
IME, any deflection from the pits of despair is a worthwhile tactic. Get the poor chap to think about something far removed from his current mindset centred on self.
However, regular chats over the phone about any diverse things of mutual interest can be a great diversion and help lift the mood.
IME, any deflection from the pits of despair is a worthwhile tactic. Get the poor chap to think about something far removed from his current mindset centred on self.
You can't help someone who won't help themselves I am afraid. The only thing to do so is make it clear you are there for him when/if he wants you. If push comes to shove, drive over there for the weekend and take him out for lunch/dinner whatever to get him out of the house and just tell him to his face that you are worried about him and want to help when he is ready.
Hi OP,
Tricky situation. I've had to deal with it twice, with my brothers.
Brother 1, had gone from making an awful lot of money, to 'only' a lot of money. He was extremely depressed and turned to drink, massively. I took the softly, softly approach with him, the loving brother type, we'll get through this etc etc. He was dead within a few months (he refused help, rehab etc)
Brother 2, last December he came to the UK (lives in Greece, has done for some years). His first stop was my house and I could not believe what I was seeing. The second day he didn't get out of bed until 4pm, having retired at 8pm the previous evening. Something was clearly very wrong. He was unkempt (last time I saw him in Greece it was linen shirts, decent trousers & shoes etc) and evidently not well but I'm not a doctor. I had very harsh words with him, very harsh. Not great seeing your 65 year old brother who you've admired all your life in tears. My wife insisted I should 'take it all back', not a chance. The next morning he was up at 8 and showered. He asked me to get him a GP appoinmtent. I did and he went. I'd like to say it's a happy ending but he's undergoing cancer treatment now (at least we caught it).
TL:DR - in my experience the hard line works better than the softly, softly approach.
Tricky situation. I've had to deal with it twice, with my brothers.
Brother 1, had gone from making an awful lot of money, to 'only' a lot of money. He was extremely depressed and turned to drink, massively. I took the softly, softly approach with him, the loving brother type, we'll get through this etc etc. He was dead within a few months (he refused help, rehab etc)
Brother 2, last December he came to the UK (lives in Greece, has done for some years). His first stop was my house and I could not believe what I was seeing. The second day he didn't get out of bed until 4pm, having retired at 8pm the previous evening. Something was clearly very wrong. He was unkempt (last time I saw him in Greece it was linen shirts, decent trousers & shoes etc) and evidently not well but I'm not a doctor. I had very harsh words with him, very harsh. Not great seeing your 65 year old brother who you've admired all your life in tears. My wife insisted I should 'take it all back', not a chance. The next morning he was up at 8 and showered. He asked me to get him a GP appoinmtent. I did and he went. I'd like to say it's a happy ending but he's undergoing cancer treatment now (at least we caught it).
TL:DR - in my experience the hard line works better than the softly, softly approach.
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