Helping someone leave a cult
Discussion
A friend from school has had a rough time the past few years. He has been trying to get his life back on track but seems to have been sucked in by some dodgy pseudoscience organisation in the US. Not Scientology but having read about them and done some googling it seems that behind a thin veneer of pseudoscience it is just woo.
I am worried about what my friend is getting himself into. At the moment I think they are only screwing him over for fees to attend their “retreats” (he has been to Mexico, is currently in Florida and apparently planning to go to Nicaragua).
I tried talking sense into him but he doesn’t seem to want to hear it and I think if I push the point he will cut off contact. I am not sure what to do. Has anyone helped a friend get out of a cult?
I am worried about what my friend is getting himself into. At the moment I think they are only screwing him over for fees to attend their “retreats” (he has been to Mexico, is currently in Florida and apparently planning to go to Nicaragua).
I tried talking sense into him but he doesn’t seem to want to hear it and I think if I push the point he will cut off contact. I am not sure what to do. Has anyone helped a friend get out of a cult?
I know a girl that was into some pyramid scheme. I think what attracted her was the openness and embracing mindsets of the scammers. She did it for like 10 years, lost all her family's money, neglected their new born completely (kid still has no bond because of this) and even needed help from her parents. The only good thing the scammers gave her in return was a holiday to some mediocre resort, which she paid for many times over.
Your friend probably needs some loving and warmth. These cults prey on vulnerable people. However, giving love may not help and it's just a journey that most will have to go on as they will fall deeper in to it the more people tell them to pull out. I'd keep tabs on your friend if you cared about them. Throw some nights out and get drunk. Should throw some sense into him.
Edit: Get him dating again. A women would leave him with zero time to commit to the cult cause.
Your friend probably needs some loving and warmth. These cults prey on vulnerable people. However, giving love may not help and it's just a journey that most will have to go on as they will fall deeper in to it the more people tell them to pull out. I'd keep tabs on your friend if you cared about them. Throw some nights out and get drunk. Should throw some sense into him.
Edit: Get him dating again. A women would leave him with zero time to commit to the cult cause.
Edited by GilletteFan on Monday 18th September 10:40
Did a three day induction thing in the mid '90s for a thing called The Landmark Forum (needed to sort my head out I thought) and it was all evangelical (non-religious) shouting and getting people up to say how worthwhile they are etc.
It was up at the Wembley Conference Centre if I remember rightly, so a fair old crowd there.
They asked if anybody could put up any if the overseas delegates, so I said yeah and this Danish girl stayed with me for the duration. She was outgoing, bubbly and spoke about her belly-dancing job in Copenhagen. We had a good laugh each evening.
Decided the Forum thing wasn't for me in the slightest (a load of old b
ks really) but exchanged numbers with this girl in Copenhagen.
She contacted me a few month later and asked if she could stay as there was another course in London, yeah why not!
What a change! A complete zombie of a person whose only interest was completing her latest Forum tasks. Totally expressionless, not a single smile the whole time she was there with me and also gave up her dancing back in Copenhagen.
So no real advice really apart from try to get people away from these things as soon as you can.
Yuk!
It was up at the Wembley Conference Centre if I remember rightly, so a fair old crowd there.
They asked if anybody could put up any if the overseas delegates, so I said yeah and this Danish girl stayed with me for the duration. She was outgoing, bubbly and spoke about her belly-dancing job in Copenhagen. We had a good laugh each evening.
Decided the Forum thing wasn't for me in the slightest (a load of old b
ks really) but exchanged numbers with this girl in Copenhagen. She contacted me a few month later and asked if she could stay as there was another course in London, yeah why not!
What a change! A complete zombie of a person whose only interest was completing her latest Forum tasks. Totally expressionless, not a single smile the whole time she was there with me and also gave up her dancing back in Copenhagen.
So no real advice really apart from try to get people away from these things as soon as you can.
Yuk!
I would suggest a softly softly approach with your friend. People don't like being told they are being taken for a sucker/brainwashed, especially when cults will be telling them that's exactly what the people they know will be telling them.
I have sympathy with you though, I watched several of my friends in my teenage yrs be brainwashed and taken in hook line and sinker by the local Baptist Church who operated and still operate like a grooming gang (without a sexual element). I've detailed it below but several of my friends were lost to them and still behave like religious nutjobs as a result. Looking back though, chatting with friends from that time about it, they were and are not that strong mentally shall we say. I know a local Baptist church sounds tame, it wasn't and to this day they aren't so I can only imagine what a full on cult must be like. Terrible. Good luck with your friend, I hope they make it out the other side unscathed.
Anyway, when I was a teenager (15-16) the local Baptist church tried to get all the local teens to 'join them'. The tactics they used were (I later came to realise) classic grooming tactics. No sexual element but the tactics were the same. They even had a couple of evenings at our school which looking back is total insanity. Even at the time some of us thought that was weird.
They were all down with the hard sell for a bit of god/jesus, it was ridiculous and even at the time I realised that. They were sneaky though, providing a local bookshop/coffeeshop that was owned by them one night a week where we could all meet and get free teas. In a town with nothing to do in the week that was appealing to a lot of us and there were a lot of us there.
But they were high pressure and arranged weekends (which i never attended) to Baptist owned religious locations for more religion enthusiasm, then came pressure to be baptised. By this time myself and a few others were sick of them and removed ourselves from their orbit (but not before having fun on aforementioned evenings having conversations with them asking difficult to answer questions about religion and watching them make up any old bks in order to 'prove' it was all true).
Anyway, several of my friends were suckered into this , baptised, the while nine yards. Insanity,. BUT, some of them are still in it to this very day, despite me and others trying to gently make them see what was going on, they had been pulled into the deep end , it was and is tragic to see.
Interestingly I recently found out that they (that Baptist church and its org where I grew up are well known around the area for those tactics, as during the pandemic their head 'priest/indoctrinator' tried in a very passive/aggressive way to do this to my elderly parents who still live there (down the road form where she lives). Fortunately they are of sound mind and weren't about to be suckered in but i did have to suggest I either went and spoke with her to point out I knew what there game was or perhaps contact the police to stop what was bordering on harassment. Fortunately it's now stopped but they are a menace.
I have sympathy with you though, I watched several of my friends in my teenage yrs be brainwashed and taken in hook line and sinker by the local Baptist Church who operated and still operate like a grooming gang (without a sexual element). I've detailed it below but several of my friends were lost to them and still behave like religious nutjobs as a result. Looking back though, chatting with friends from that time about it, they were and are not that strong mentally shall we say. I know a local Baptist church sounds tame, it wasn't and to this day they aren't so I can only imagine what a full on cult must be like. Terrible. Good luck with your friend, I hope they make it out the other side unscathed.
Anyway, when I was a teenager (15-16) the local Baptist church tried to get all the local teens to 'join them'. The tactics they used were (I later came to realise) classic grooming tactics. No sexual element but the tactics were the same. They even had a couple of evenings at our school which looking back is total insanity. Even at the time some of us thought that was weird.
They were all down with the hard sell for a bit of god/jesus, it was ridiculous and even at the time I realised that. They were sneaky though, providing a local bookshop/coffeeshop that was owned by them one night a week where we could all meet and get free teas. In a town with nothing to do in the week that was appealing to a lot of us and there were a lot of us there.
But they were high pressure and arranged weekends (which i never attended) to Baptist owned religious locations for more religion enthusiasm, then came pressure to be baptised. By this time myself and a few others were sick of them and removed ourselves from their orbit (but not before having fun on aforementioned evenings having conversations with them asking difficult to answer questions about religion and watching them make up any old b
ks in order to 'prove' it was all true).Anyway, several of my friends were suckered into this , baptised, the while nine yards. Insanity,. BUT, some of them are still in it to this very day, despite me and others trying to gently make them see what was going on, they had been pulled into the deep end , it was and is tragic to see.
Interestingly I recently found out that they (that Baptist church and its org where I grew up are well known around the area for those tactics, as during the pandemic their head 'priest/indoctrinator' tried in a very passive/aggressive way to do this to my elderly parents who still live there (down the road form where she lives). Fortunately they are of sound mind and weren't about to be suckered in but i did have to suggest I either went and spoke with her to point out I knew what there game was or perhaps contact the police to stop what was bordering on harassment. Fortunately it's now stopped but they are a menace.
I have zero tolerance for cults/religion. So if it were my friend, I'd be telling them if you go for this. Its goodbye. I have no time to be babying your ego to make you see sense, you're a big boy/girl capable of making your own mistakes and if you want to ruin your life. Go ahead. Have a nice life.
Silverbullet767 said:
I have zero tolerance for cults/religion. So if it were my friend, I'd be telling them if you go for this. Its goodbye. I have no time to be babying your ego to make you see sense, you're a big boy/girl capable of making your own mistakes and if you want to ruin your life. Go ahead. Have a nice life.
It might just work. Some people call it tough love. And sometimes someone might need a hug, but sometimes you have to spin them round and give them a kick up the arse.To the OPer, try the hug first, if that doesn't work, put on your most robust pair of boots.
Silverbullet767 said:
I have zero tolerance for cults/religion. So if it were my friend, I'd be telling them if you go for this. Its goodbye. I have no time to be babying your ego to make you see sense, you're a big boy/girl capable of making your own mistakes and if you want to ruin your life. Go ahead. Have a nice life.
Have to agree with this. 10 years back myself and others in a friend group tried for years to steer one of us away from a dark path but he wouldn't have it. All the stuff we wanted growing up, family, cars, a house, decent job etc. We've all largely achieved that, but he totally lost interest in any of it, is working a dead end nine to five that he hates, earning peanuts, and is back home with mum and dad. We're in our 30's so there's still hope he can turn it around, but I'm doubtful.I saw him recently, he seems okay on the surface but underneath he's a paranoid, delusional, conspiracy theorist wreck, hooked on everything and generally a burden to everyone.
I've tried to intervene, I've even tried to just let him do what he wants and simply be his friend, but it never lasts.
Sad to see, but sometimes people have to make their own mistakes and return to reality in their own time, or not, as is often the case.
That being said, if you don't want to give up, take it slow and try show them a better way. Come down too hard and you'll be seen as a villain. Best of luck.
neilr said:
I have sympathy with you though, I watched several of my friends in my teenage yrs be brainwashed and taken in hook line and sinker by the local Baptist Church who operated and still operate like a grooming gang (without a sexual element). I've detailed it below but several of my friends were lost to them and still behave like religious nutjobs as a result. Looking back though, chatting with friends from that time about it, they were and are not that strong mentally shall we say. I know a local Baptist church sounds tame, it wasn't and to this day they aren't so I can only imagine what a full on cult must be like. Terrible. Good luck with your friend, I hope they make it out the other side unscathed.
The wifes dad got sucked in by the local Baptist church, about 15 years ago, he was going through a very bad stage mentally and financially, they helped out with financial support a mobile, somewhere to stay etc, looking back they just preyed on his frail mental state and sucked him right in, he was seen in town "spreading the word" he eventually married a church member, awful, awful woman who very quickly turned him away from his family, she ruled his life, in the early days if they were both round our place I would purposely go out as I couldn't stand her and also didn't like what he became, the wife caught him whispering to the eldest about the church, god etc, trying to get her involved, he was told in no uncertain terms by the wife to stop.Soon after, he moved away and apart from one time when he said he was leaving his wife when he kipped on our sofa we've actually not seen him for all those years, he went back to her. She ruled his life, what he did, who he saw, where he worked, she physically (went at him with a knife, used to hit him) and mentally abused him, a good Christian woman!!
He has now left her, they divorced and he's moved back to Manchester where he grew up, he has been in touch with the wife, they now talk via FB, he recently re-married what seems like a lovely lady, he though is a shell of his former self, disabled, not well, in and out of hospital etc, we've still not seen him, the wife's brother wants absolutely nothing to do with him.
It is sad as he has missed out on 4 grandkids, 2 great grandsons and his son and daughter getting married.
Edited by HTP99 on Monday 18th September 11:34
They deliberately pray on people who are venerable or those they can see might not have the best critical thinking skills. That was definitely my experience of them. Of the friends I had that those baptists properly got their hooks into a couple of them were going through some tough times (remember we were only 15-16 which is a hard time anyway) and those they could see were easy prey mentally.
One of them is, like your experience married to another baptist (different church I believe) and I know they preach at any opportunity. Fortunately I don't have to see them,
As per my post earlier they were telling those people we were trying to steer away form it that the devil was working with us (I'm not kidding). They also believed in creationism and that the devil put dinosaur fossils in the ground. I know that's something some comedians talk about (Bill HIcks for example) but I've actually had that said to me in person by someone who truly believed it. Terrifying.
One night they asked me (and i'm not kidding or exaggerating here) to burn my albums (we were all into rock music) because one of them had a pentagram on the cover (Rush- 2112). No way was that happening! I was actually thinking "your mental mate, I don't care how much free tea you give us!" as he was saying this. Several friends did end up giving their albums to them to 'check they had suitable lyrics'. Insanity and dangerously controlling behaviour from adults over minors . This was the time me and a few others made definite moves away from them.
I've got no time for organised religion, its a cult and a pretty nasty one at that.
My advice to anyone dealing with a friend/family member in this situation is tread lightly and don't judge too much, like i said people don't like being told they have been fooled. Also, be prepared for you best efforts to amount to nothing.
With that experience I can see how terrifyingly easy it is for young people to be groomed in far more sinister ways, at the time I thought (as did a handful of others) that there was something 'off' about them but at that age you shrug it off as they are working hard to 'be your mates'. Probably lucky they only wanted our eternal souls!
One of them is, like your experience married to another baptist (different church I believe) and I know they preach at any opportunity. Fortunately I don't have to see them,
As per my post earlier they were telling those people we were trying to steer away form it that the devil was working with us (I'm not kidding). They also believed in creationism and that the devil put dinosaur fossils in the ground. I know that's something some comedians talk about (Bill HIcks for example) but I've actually had that said to me in person by someone who truly believed it. Terrifying.
One night they asked me (and i'm not kidding or exaggerating here) to burn my albums (we were all into rock music) because one of them had a pentagram on the cover (Rush- 2112). No way was that happening! I was actually thinking "your mental mate, I don't care how much free tea you give us!" as he was saying this. Several friends did end up giving their albums to them to 'check they had suitable lyrics'. Insanity and dangerously controlling behaviour from adults over minors . This was the time me and a few others made definite moves away from them.
I've got no time for organised religion, its a cult and a pretty nasty one at that.
My advice to anyone dealing with a friend/family member in this situation is tread lightly and don't judge too much, like i said people don't like being told they have been fooled. Also, be prepared for you best efforts to amount to nothing.
With that experience I can see how terrifyingly easy it is for young people to be groomed in far more sinister ways, at the time I thought (as did a handful of others) that there was something 'off' about them but at that age you shrug it off as they are working hard to 'be your mates'. Probably lucky they only wanted our eternal souls!
My aunties (non blood related aunty)dad died , leaving a large estate
My aunties sister lives in Australia but is not so hands on with helping her dad as she’s lived down under for 50 years
The ozzies decided to make a holiday out of sorting the estate out and came to the U.K. for 2 months to speed things up
The Ozzies had been sucked in by their local iffy church and had donated around 300k I seem to remember, scary stuff
The ozzies couldn’t believe it, clearly not been keeping an eye on their bank statements.
My aunties sister lives in Australia but is not so hands on with helping her dad as she’s lived down under for 50 years
The ozzies decided to make a holiday out of sorting the estate out and came to the U.K. for 2 months to speed things up
The Ozzies had been sucked in by their local iffy church and had donated around 300k I seem to remember, scary stuff
The ozzies couldn’t believe it, clearly not been keeping an eye on their bank statements.
vixen1700 said:
Did a three day induction thing in the mid '90s for a thing called The Landmark Forum (needed to sort my head out I thought) and it was all evangelical (non-religious) shouting and getting people up to say how worthwhile they are etc.
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