Families who'd have them
Discussion
I'm posting this as I really don't have anyone to vent off on who isn't family and understands the full nine yards and I can get this off my chest with.
I'm trying to get the usual Christmas arrangements made around next week and my brothers arrangements seem to take priority every blddy time we need to arrange something with my mother and father.
He has a rather self inflicted set of issues with his day to day life.
I could go into multiple hours of thread about my brother works shifts and he will be working on Christmas Day (that I knew about), he has three children he lives with with one toddler and two 8-10 year olds.
I ask my mother about what we are doing over the festive break and it starts by "SiL has asked if they can take the two kids as they are currently being a pain in the arse, they will then drive back with them before my brother has available time to come and work later in the xmas week where she then no doubt wants to sit on her arse with the third child.
One thing to mention here is they live 150 miles away, this would involve going up, hoteling over the xmas break and then driving back. Where she won't drive her self with them, meet half way or anything else considerate. They live about 20 miles from me BTW so they are local.
They do all this a lot all year at half terms, go up, pick them up return..it's a joke to me.
SiL has a mother herself, which is where I think the apple is not falling far from the tree, she appears monthly and "Pops in" when it suits...I'm just not clear why and don't want to know, but it's just not on when she is local to not being part of her call upon.
I have a toddler myself who is starting to build memories and remember the times with his family and it always feels like he's at the mercy of what's going on with my brothers family. It would be nice to spend some quality time with them.
I have a lot of thoughts going through my head on this situation but am I being some sort of selfish son here to expect a little bit more priority given to my family?
I'm thinking about having a really sensible discussion with my parents as they either don't seem to get I view this as a complete piss take.
It's demonstrating bad behaviours to the kids as well I think, I'm not sure they really want to go and spend night overs with pensioners in all reality, they would rather sit in there rooms on a computer screen. Coupled with the toddler who sees the two older ones dissapearing must start the cycle again and feel very different.
On my side I'm seeing long term as well tom when my parents get to an age and I'm definitely sure SiL won't be interested in supporting them as they currently do with these kids as well.
Give me some sanity for christ sake!
I'm trying to get the usual Christmas arrangements made around next week and my brothers arrangements seem to take priority every blddy time we need to arrange something with my mother and father.
He has a rather self inflicted set of issues with his day to day life.
I could go into multiple hours of thread about my brother works shifts and he will be working on Christmas Day (that I knew about), he has three children he lives with with one toddler and two 8-10 year olds.
I ask my mother about what we are doing over the festive break and it starts by "SiL has asked if they can take the two kids as they are currently being a pain in the arse, they will then drive back with them before my brother has available time to come and work later in the xmas week where she then no doubt wants to sit on her arse with the third child.
One thing to mention here is they live 150 miles away, this would involve going up, hoteling over the xmas break and then driving back. Where she won't drive her self with them, meet half way or anything else considerate. They live about 20 miles from me BTW so they are local.
They do all this a lot all year at half terms, go up, pick them up return..it's a joke to me.
SiL has a mother herself, which is where I think the apple is not falling far from the tree, she appears monthly and "Pops in" when it suits...I'm just not clear why and don't want to know, but it's just not on when she is local to not being part of her call upon.
I have a toddler myself who is starting to build memories and remember the times with his family and it always feels like he's at the mercy of what's going on with my brothers family. It would be nice to spend some quality time with them.
I have a lot of thoughts going through my head on this situation but am I being some sort of selfish son here to expect a little bit more priority given to my family?
I'm thinking about having a really sensible discussion with my parents as they either don't seem to get I view this as a complete piss take.
It's demonstrating bad behaviours to the kids as well I think, I'm not sure they really want to go and spend night overs with pensioners in all reality, they would rather sit in there rooms on a computer screen. Coupled with the toddler who sees the two older ones dissapearing must start the cycle again and feel very different.
On my side I'm seeing long term as well tom when my parents get to an age and I'm definitely sure SiL won't be interested in supporting them as they currently do with these kids as well.
Give me some sanity for christ sake!
I have a similar but not identical issue.
My parents live half a mile from my brother and his two kids and they are fairly tight week to week.
The oldest is 12 and we have had one Christmas with my parents in that time, when we hosted them. My brother’s Christmas Day is a fairly chaotic affair involving his partners family etc and we have never been invited. The same, for various reasons, can be said of any family celebration.
The eldest child has a few issues which appear to be rolled out when it suits to get their own way. I feel that the kids are used as a sort of diplomatic human shield in terms of managing the dynamic.
None of this is really addressing your issue but all I will say is I can’t really bring myself to push any further with my parents as it’s not fair on them. I’ve had numerous conversations over the years and I get 3 outcomes:
1) the excuse; even though I’m attempting to discuss a pattern of behaviour my mother always has a variety of specific excuses for my brother or why things are as they are.
2) the deflection; I will get told what I did wrong 3 years ago in some totally unrelated incident.
3) the abdication; they will say they wish it wasn’t like that but what do I expect them to do about it.
Fundamentally the conversations always conclude with some sort of amicable agreement but the behaviour continues.
I’ve sort of accepted my lot and moved on in life, it does get my goat, particularly at times of the year like now, but I don’t think I’ll ever change it as it has gone on too long and become too ingrained.
The thing I believe drives my situation is the sanctions my parents feel over the grandchildren and the competitiveness that exists between my brother and I, he is an incredibly competitive person and I believe he likes getting one up on me.
So before you speak to your parents just be aware you may not know all of the facts and you don’t want to wind up the villain and be accused of causing mischief.
My parents live half a mile from my brother and his two kids and they are fairly tight week to week.
The oldest is 12 and we have had one Christmas with my parents in that time, when we hosted them. My brother’s Christmas Day is a fairly chaotic affair involving his partners family etc and we have never been invited. The same, for various reasons, can be said of any family celebration.
The eldest child has a few issues which appear to be rolled out when it suits to get their own way. I feel that the kids are used as a sort of diplomatic human shield in terms of managing the dynamic.
None of this is really addressing your issue but all I will say is I can’t really bring myself to push any further with my parents as it’s not fair on them. I’ve had numerous conversations over the years and I get 3 outcomes:
1) the excuse; even though I’m attempting to discuss a pattern of behaviour my mother always has a variety of specific excuses for my brother or why things are as they are.
2) the deflection; I will get told what I did wrong 3 years ago in some totally unrelated incident.
3) the abdication; they will say they wish it wasn’t like that but what do I expect them to do about it.
Fundamentally the conversations always conclude with some sort of amicable agreement but the behaviour continues.
I’ve sort of accepted my lot and moved on in life, it does get my goat, particularly at times of the year like now, but I don’t think I’ll ever change it as it has gone on too long and become too ingrained.
The thing I believe drives my situation is the sanctions my parents feel over the grandchildren and the competitiveness that exists between my brother and I, he is an incredibly competitive person and I believe he likes getting one up on me.
So before you speak to your parents just be aware you may not know all of the facts and you don’t want to wind up the villain and be accused of causing mischief.
Thanks, specially Dave, some good advice where I am seeing similar patterns.
And yes, brother has had his "lovely" kids first way before us, the difference is he has one slightly younger than us, This wasn't planned i'm sure and just testament to the instability in his life that he seems to project a front of being able to cope all the time. (Where I meant a lot of its self inflicted on the Original post).
I've thought a bit about this when trying to get to sleep, they are probably trying to just be good samaritans for my SiL who I'm convinced has mental issues, she is never happy, despite having three children, a house up north that they bought, the top paying job in the family, I could go on.
From my point of view my brother is a grown adult and should be dealing with it himself along with her mother (who is also I suspect not exactly mentally straight). However there is history with my brother, he is the youngest out of both of us and has had his bum wiped all his life by my mother along with an early set of behaviours that I would suggest are similar to what is being seen currently in his own offspring.
As a <8-10 year old tantrums were aplenty, extreme levels of toys thrown out the pram if he didn't get everything....we'd go out for family days out and it would basically be a full day (from memory) of him winding up my parents. They went for social help on this and we had sessions with I guess were family experts?
A lot is going around my head on this, I know it will always be a situation that arises, but fail to cope with dealing with it without sounding like a spoilt brat.
I also don't think what they do with these children is actually helping the situation, that one can and should be dealt with by my brother as a grown up responsible adult.
And yes, brother has had his "lovely" kids first way before us, the difference is he has one slightly younger than us, This wasn't planned i'm sure and just testament to the instability in his life that he seems to project a front of being able to cope all the time. (Where I meant a lot of its self inflicted on the Original post).
I've thought a bit about this when trying to get to sleep, they are probably trying to just be good samaritans for my SiL who I'm convinced has mental issues, she is never happy, despite having three children, a house up north that they bought, the top paying job in the family, I could go on.
From my point of view my brother is a grown adult and should be dealing with it himself along with her mother (who is also I suspect not exactly mentally straight). However there is history with my brother, he is the youngest out of both of us and has had his bum wiped all his life by my mother along with an early set of behaviours that I would suggest are similar to what is being seen currently in his own offspring.
As a <8-10 year old tantrums were aplenty, extreme levels of toys thrown out the pram if he didn't get everything....we'd go out for family days out and it would basically be a full day (from memory) of him winding up my parents. They went for social help on this and we had sessions with I guess were family experts?
A lot is going around my head on this, I know it will always be a situation that arises, but fail to cope with dealing with it without sounding like a spoilt brat.
I also don't think what they do with these children is actually helping the situation, that one can and should be dealt with by my brother as a grown up responsible adult.
You're never going to resolve these kind of issues. I've had it with my family. It usually goes like Dave above has described, ie. basically nothing changes and you get more and more pissed off with the situation as time goes on. Ultimately you have to decide whether your family or your sanity is more important. For me it was the latter, which is why I don't speak to any of them any longer and my life is now chill. Caused quite a furore at the time, but when I saw how my brother treated my Old Dear in her later years when she became too frail to look after herself, and also his behaviour after her death, I knew I'd made the right decision many years earlier.
Do what you need to do and f
k what anyone else thinks. You only get one life (as far as we know).
Do what you need to do and f
k what anyone else thinks. You only get one life (as far as we know).You’ve just got to look after your own family and not rely on anyone else for support.
Nice if you get it but never rely upon it.
We’re really close with my parents, they spend every Xmas with us usually. I used to have my sister and her kids over as well but as they’re kids are now grown up they don’t want anything to do with mine which is totally fair enough. They have their own priorities now.
I could be put out that the one time I’ve asked for an afternoons help when we couldn’t get a baby sitter we got told to go and swivel but hey ho, that’s life.
Then there’s the mother in law, who refuses to have anything to do with my parents. We’re having her over this year for dinner for the first time in years as she’s dying. She still won’t have my parents there at the same time so they’re packed off to my sisters so my kids can “make memories” with the old. Happy days.
Her retarded son will probably come as part of the package, not sure if his retarded bird will though as she usually can’t leave the house. Be nice to see his kids again though, hopefully his eldest can manage not to smear st half way up the cistern like last time and has managed some degree of looking after herself.
Families eh?
Merry Christmas you filthy animals!
Nice if you get it but never rely upon it.
We’re really close with my parents, they spend every Xmas with us usually. I used to have my sister and her kids over as well but as they’re kids are now grown up they don’t want anything to do with mine which is totally fair enough. They have their own priorities now.
I could be put out that the one time I’ve asked for an afternoons help when we couldn’t get a baby sitter we got told to go and swivel but hey ho, that’s life.
Then there’s the mother in law, who refuses to have anything to do with my parents. We’re having her over this year for dinner for the first time in years as she’s dying. She still won’t have my parents there at the same time so they’re packed off to my sisters so my kids can “make memories” with the old
. Happy days.Her retarded son will probably come as part of the package, not sure if his retarded bird will though as she usually can’t leave the house. Be nice to see his kids again though, hopefully his eldest can manage not to smear s
t half way up the cistern like last time and has managed some degree of looking after herself.Families eh?
Merry Christmas you filthy animals!
Edited by Pflanzgarten on Saturday 16th December 09:00
Families eh? I find the thing is not to do what you want but rather not to do anything you don't want to do. The difference - to me - is that the things I do I do joyfully and the things I don't also lead to (my) happiness. No drama is required and no 'putting a brave face on' either.
My sister is a pain in th arse, always trumping decisions etc
I found the trick is to say in feb
You are welcome to come to ours for xyz on the 25th or 26th dec or vice versa, please let us know by august as we have to let xyz know about our plans
Invariably we will still get oissed about and not told in august, at which point we choose what we are doing and stick to it
Frustratingly my wife’s sister is a massive todddler as well, so puts unneeded pressure on the mother in law as well
I found the trick is to say in feb
You are welcome to come to ours for xyz on the 25th or 26th dec or vice versa, please let us know by august as we have to let xyz know about our plans
Invariably we will still get oissed about and not told in august, at which point we choose what we are doing and stick to it
Frustratingly my wife’s sister is a massive todddler as well, so puts unneeded pressure on the mother in law as well
RayDonovan said:
Just prioritise your family above all else, no-one else will.
okgo said:
Think it’s quite common.
Seems basically he who strikes first with having kids/lives nearest gets the lions share of attention and help.
Seems basically he who strikes first with having kids/lives nearest gets the lions share of attention and help.
tamore said:
holiday somewhere nice for Christmas. easy.
Much wisdom on this thread there is. It seems there are a few, to varying degrees, in the same boat.
For me, despite all of the conversations over the years the primary reason I know it will never change is it’s actually very simple to solve the fundamental issue.
In our family there is only my parents, my brothers family and my partner and I. Historically we have always celebrated on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day. So a simple annual rota of who does what should be a straightforward solution. No.
My brother has decreed his children shouldn’t have to leave the house on Christmas Day. Furthermore he has said he finds Christmas Day so stressful he needs Boxing Day to recover, which coincidentally happens to be a day full of televised football, his primary passion. And New Year’s Day is taken by his partners family who have some distant Scottish relations and therefore take priority.
It’s made more complicated by my father refusing to drive (he’s always had an issue but is now at an age where it’s an acceptable issue!) and my mother refusing to cook (apparently she’s done it so much over the years she deserves a break now) again this is poppycock as she has never liked cooking, growing up Christmas dinner was pretty much a Sunday lunch, no trimmings etc.
I think as the OP says my parents are looking to be good Samaritans and my brothers family, with their somewhat parasitic approach to life are always asking for more, so my parents are put in a situation where they are now having to make more and more excuses, the thing they have not really noticed, is the excuses due to their getting older now wash but they didn’t 10 years ago when this all started.
In my case I do however find that the more I try and distance myself from it the more I seem to get challenged, in different ways, by my brother and parents. My brother seems to goad more, as I believe his primary objective is to get the better of me, and my parents seem to become more dejected, as I believe they still hope I’ll tow the line and they can have a lovely family Christmas.
It’s hard, I have obviously given it a lot of thought, and, imo, my parents should’ve said something sooner. No matter what age or health, there is a hierarchy in a family that most respect, and just showing to my brother they could see what his caper was might just have nipped this in the bud.
For me, despite all of the conversations over the years the primary reason I know it will never change is it’s actually very simple to solve the fundamental issue.
In our family there is only my parents, my brothers family and my partner and I. Historically we have always celebrated on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day. So a simple annual rota of who does what should be a straightforward solution. No.
My brother has decreed his children shouldn’t have to leave the house on Christmas Day. Furthermore he has said he finds Christmas Day so stressful he needs Boxing Day to recover, which coincidentally happens to be a day full of televised football, his primary passion. And New Year’s Day is taken by his partners family who have some distant Scottish relations and therefore take priority.
It’s made more complicated by my father refusing to drive (he’s always had an issue but is now at an age where it’s an acceptable issue!) and my mother refusing to cook (apparently she’s done it so much over the years she deserves a break now) again this is poppycock as she has never liked cooking, growing up Christmas dinner was pretty much a Sunday lunch, no trimmings etc.
I think as the OP says my parents are looking to be good Samaritans and my brothers family, with their somewhat parasitic approach to life are always asking for more, so my parents are put in a situation where they are now having to make more and more excuses, the thing they have not really noticed, is the excuses due to their getting older now wash but they didn’t 10 years ago when this all started.
In my case I do however find that the more I try and distance myself from it the more I seem to get challenged, in different ways, by my brother and parents. My brother seems to goad more, as I believe his primary objective is to get the better of me, and my parents seem to become more dejected, as I believe they still hope I’ll tow the line and they can have a lovely family Christmas.
It’s hard, I have obviously given it a lot of thought, and, imo, my parents should’ve said something sooner. No matter what age or health, there is a hierarchy in a family that most respect, and just showing to my brother they could see what his caper was might just have nipped this in the bud.
dave123456 said:
In our family there is... .
Sounds like your entire family are a massive bunch of selfish twunts and don't care for anyone else so long as they're getting their own way. Time to cut them loose and do your own thing, such as booking a stay in a suitably distant location that means you sadly 
won't be able to join them over the festive period.I think R3g’s intro (eta: his earlier post, not the twins one)captured it for me. You’re never going to fix this. Whatever you think, others think something slightly or completely different and we all think we’re right.
Op, Can you schedule some special time for your kids with your parents at a time where your brother is doing something else? Might have to be when he’s on holiday?!
We used to have a second Christmas dinner at my great aunts - I think because she wanted to host - and we did little presents - which no kid objects to…
Op, Can you schedule some special time for your kids with your parents at a time where your brother is doing something else? Might have to be when he’s on holiday?!
We used to have a second Christmas dinner at my great aunts - I think because she wanted to host - and we did little presents - which no kid objects to…
Families can of course be difficult, but there's quite a lot of self-indulgent whining going on here. Make your own plans around your own family and invite others if you want them. Don't if you don't.
Getting butt-hurt about the choices and priorities your parents make isn't a good look.
Getting butt-hurt about the choices and priorities your parents make isn't a good look.
r3g said:
dave123456 said:
In our family there is... .
Sounds like your entire family are a massive bunch of selfish twunts and don't care for anyone else so long as they're getting their own way. Time to cut them loose and do your own thing, such as booking a stay in a suitably distant location that means you sadly won't be able to join them over the festive period.I'm sure parents are doing their best.
My kids were the first born and we also live the closest to my parents, it's practically walking distance so I'm probably on the other end of this discussion.
It must be almost unavoidable for parents to upset one branch of the family at some point or other, particularly if you're a sensitive soul over the issue.
My kids were the first born and we also live the closest to my parents, it's practically walking distance so I'm probably on the other end of this discussion.
It must be almost unavoidable for parents to upset one branch of the family at some point or other, particularly if you're a sensitive soul over the issue.
When I was younger we lived in Manchester and the rest of the family in Scotland. Mum and Dad chose to stay at home, just the three of us for the festive season. It was great. We could do and eat what we wanted when we wanted. None of the pressures of 'enjoying' Christmas with the extended family.
We now have to have Christmas Eve with the family as well as Christmas day so the MIL can say she has done her bit by doing a buffet of beige. SIL always buys a new game for the kids to play which is usually so complicated and difficult to understand that there are tears. We have to stay until at least 10pm as staying longer means we have had more fun. New one is the adults are now doing their presents on Christmas Eve too, why?
Christmas day has just become a big roast dinner at our house. Then go home pretty soon afterwards as we have run out if things to say!
I guess you can gather I'd rather have just one day of 'celebrating' on the actual day to make it more special for the kids.
We now have to have Christmas Eve with the family as well as Christmas day so the MIL can say she has done her bit by doing a buffet of beige. SIL always buys a new game for the kids to play which is usually so complicated and difficult to understand that there are tears. We have to stay until at least 10pm as staying longer means we have had more fun. New one is the adults are now doing their presents on Christmas Eve too, why?
Christmas day has just become a big roast dinner at our house. Then go home pretty soon afterwards as we have run out if things to say!
I guess you can gather I'd rather have just one day of 'celebrating' on the actual day to make it more special for the kids.
Edited by RosscoPCole on Saturday 16th December 10:07
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Families can of course be difficult, but there's quite a lot of self-indulgent whining going on here. Make your own plans around your own family and invite others if you want them. Don't if you don't.
Getting butt-hurt about the choices and priorities your parents make isn't a good look.
Harshly put, but this. It's almost as if the parents prioritise the one who needs most help and consideration.Getting butt-hurt about the choices and priorities your parents make isn't a good look.
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