Supporting hopeless causes

[Skeptisk]

One of my daughter’s friends is a Palestinian so I ended up joining her recently on a protest march, calling for a ceasefire. There were lots of people on the march. I just found it all a bit depressing. I can remember similar protests from the 1980s. Yet the situation for the Palestinians has not improved despite decades of protest. They seem further away than ever from getting their own state.

How do people keep themselves motivated, optimistic and enthused to support what seem like hopeless causes?

[Blib]

I've supported Spurs for over half a century. I feel your pain.

[Skeptisk]

Blib said:

I've supported Spurs for over half a century. I feel your pain.

Close thread! ;-)

[S366]

I mostly refrain from getting into political issues on here. But regarding the protests, personally I can’t see them doing any real change, why would Israel, Palestine or Hamas implement a ceasefire because a bunch of people marched down a street in a country that’s 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with them.

[Nethybridge]

Our decades old campaign to bring back Old English Spangles is still ongoing, myself and my faithful
lieutenant Monty Thrupp [ once he gets out of prison ] will continue the struggle with renewed vigour.

[bad company]

Mrs BC and I attended some anti ULEZ expansion rallies in London. Little chance of success but what else can you do?

[Jamescrs]

S366 said:

I mostly refrain from getting into political issues on here. But regarding the protests, personally I can’t see them doing any real change, why would Israel, Palestine or Hamas implement a ceasefire because a bunch of people marched down a street in a country that’s 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with them.

I do agree with this, if people feel they need an outlet to express how they feel and a protest march is it then so be it, thankfully we live in a country where it is allowed but they won't make a blind bit of difference to those countries involved in the ongoing fighting.

[YorkshireStu]

Perhaps many attending protest rallies simply want to feel that they have done something, anything, that might possibly build awareness for a Cause they are passionate for.

I’ve never attended one but I can understand how those who do value them.

I think the average person watching them doesn’t understand the goals either. For example: no-one expects the Palestinian Marches to have any direct bearing upon Israel or Hamas. That’s naive. What the Protesters want is for our Governments to have words with Israel, to open dialogue between Israel and Nations who have the ear of Hamas, in the hope of brokering a halt in hostilities.

Yep, may be totally ineffective. But I guess at least those trying are out there doing something whereas most just sit on their sofas and pass comments and judgements. Myself included.

[dontlookdown]

Jamescrs said:

S366 said:

I mostly refrain from getting into political issues on here. But regarding the protests, personally I can’t see them doing any real change, why would Israel, Palestine or Hamas implement a ceasefire because a bunch of people marched down a street in a country that’s 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with them.

I do agree with this, if people feel they need an outlet to express how they feel and a protest march is it then so be it, thankfully we live in a country where it is allowed but they won't make a blind bit of difference to those countries involved in the ongoing fighting.

While I share the general view that protests usually make naff all difference, I think it's fair to point out that the protestors hope to influence the views of UK politicians on whatever it is they are protesting about, not really those of eg Israel.

[Panamax]

Jamescrs said:

S366 said:

regarding the protests, why would Israel, Palestine or Hamas implement a ceasefire because a bunch of people marched down a street in a country that’s 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with them.

I do agree with this, if people feel they need an outlet to express how they feel and a protest march is it then so be it

Bear in mind it's not just people in Europe marching while the Middle East sits quietly enjoying its afternoon tea. There are huge protests across the Middle East and a lot of very, very angry people. Just look at Turkey, a NATO state with population of 80 million people and its reaction to the situation, calling Israel a "terror state" whose leaders must be tried in international courts.

Israel has dug a very deep hole for itself and is utterly dependent upon continuing support from USA. They're not doing each other's credibility any good at all.

[CanAm]

Nethybridge said:

Our decades old campaign to bring back Old English Spangles is still ongoing, myself and my faithful lieutenant Monty Thrupp [ once he gets out of prison ] will continue the struggle with renewed vigour.

A worthwhile cause at last; count me in!!

And can we include Cadbury's Old Jamaica bar while we're at it? It's available in Australia for God's sake (under a nom de plume), so why not in dear old Blighty?

Edited by CanAm on Monday 1st January 15:22

[Mr Penguin]

S366 said:

I mostly refrain from getting into political issues on here. But regarding the protests, personally I can’t see them doing any real change, why would Israel, Palestine or Hamas implement a ceasefire because a bunch of people marched down a street in a country that’s 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with them.

When I was at uni (in England) some students decided to take over a lecture theatre in protest of what Israel were doing in Gaza. Hard to see how they would put aside their differences just because I had to go to a different building to learn about quantum mechanics.

[valiant]

bad company said:

Mrs BC and I attended some anti ULEZ expansion rallies in London. Little chance of success but what else can you do?

To be fair to you BC, whilst I don’t agree with the reason you protested I fully respect the fact you got off your arse and stood up for something you believe is wrong.

Far too many just sit behind a keyboard and bh and moan with likeminded people and when you ask them what have you done besides moan on a forum, they go quiet. Yep, it is probably a fruitless exercise and same with other demos like the Palestinian marches but it’s part of a healthy democracy that you do so and more importantly that you’re allowed to do so.

So kudos points to you and the Op. Standing up for something you believe in is never a waste of time even if it doesn’t achieve the result you desire. At least come the reckoning you can say you tried rather than ranting on an obscure motoring forum.

[Countdown]

YorkshireStu said:

Perhaps many attending protest rallies simply want to feel that they have done something, anything, that might possibly build awareness for a Cause they are passionate for.

I’ve never attended one but I can understand how those who do value them.

I think the average person watching them doesn’t understand the goals either. For example: no-one expects the Palestinian Marches to have any direct bearing upon Israel or Hamas. That’s naive. What the Protesters want is for our Governments to have words with Israel, to open dialogue between Israel and Nations who have the ear of Hamas, in the hope of brokering a halt in hostilities.

Yep, may be totally ineffective. But I guess at least those trying are out there doing something whereas most just sit on their sofas and pass comments and judgements. Myself included.

Agree completely.

I think one other benefit of attending the marches is knowing that others share your views. There's a kind of mutual support there which helps, even though you know you're probably not making any difference.

[BunkMoreland]

Countdown said:

Agree completely.

I think one other benefit of attending the marches is knowing that others share your views. There's a kind of mutual support there which helps, even though you know you're probably not making any difference.

I'd suggest it over eggs peoples perception of support for their cause. Its just echo chamber nonsense. Its twitter but in the cold.

Anti Ulez, Anti Brexit, Middle east, Proportional Representation votes etc.

A tiny, tiny number of people in the UK marched for those things.

The majority are either

i) literally directly opposite the marchers on their views. (which can be seen in some cases when the majority actually vote in a democratic process one way or another)

Or ii) are so indifferent to the situation that they just switch off when the BBC or Sky have another hyperbole filled wkfest about "protests grinding London to a halt"

[Nethybridge]

Countdown said:

Agree completely.

I think one other benefit of attending the marches is knowing that others share your views. There's a kind of mutual support there which helps, even though you know you're probably not making any difference.

Bound to be many examples of protests and marches
actually making a goverment change a policy or law.

I vaguely remember the pointlessness of the 1968
Grosvenor Sq. riots where Anti-Vietnam war protesters
shook their little fists at the American Embassy, and
as if by magic 7 years later the war ended.

[QJumper]

YorkshireStu said:

Perhaps many attending protest rallies simply want to feel that they have done something, anything,

That's probably a large part of it. Bit like praying.

I think it's hard for people to believe/want/support something, but then feel powerless to do anything about it, so they find an outlet of expression.

Let's face it, no one's going to change anything by posting on forums either, as even the most logical, accurate and honest assessment of something doesn't change the mind of someone wedded to the opposite view, and yet we still do it.

[anonymous-user]

BunkMoreland said:

Countdown said:

Agree completely.

I think one other benefit of attending the marches is knowing that others share your views. There's a kind of mutual support there which helps, even though you know you're probably not making any difference.

I'd suggest it over eggs peoples perception of support for their cause. Its just echo chamber nonsense. Its twitter but in the cold.

Anti Ulez, Anti Brexit, Middle east, Proportional Representation votes etc.

A tiny, tiny number of people in the UK marched for those things.

The majority are either

i) literally directly opposite the marchers on their views. (which can be seen in some cases when the majority actually vote in a democratic process one way or another)

Or ii) are so indifferent to the situation that they just switch off when the BBC or Sky have another hyperbole filled wkfest about "protests grinding London to a halt"

I have had i don't know how many discussions with my immediate boss at work about how in his opinion, the masses will be on the streets protesting and hanging politicians before the year is out - he's a very angry short man trapped in a big man's body.
As i keep saying to him, it will never happen in this country because the level of apathy is far far too high.

What do we want?
Change
When do we want it?
Now
When are we going to actually do something about it ourselves?

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st January 19:15

[BunkMoreland]

slopes said:

I have had i don't know how many discussions with my immediate boss at work about how in his opinion, the masses will be on the streets protesting and hanging politicians before the year is out - he's a very angry short man trapped in a big man's body.
As i keep saying to him, it will never happen in this country because the level of apathy is far far too high.

What do we want?
Change
When do we want it?
Now
When are we going to actually do something about it ourselves?

You should remind him that what he perceives as apathy, is actually that people don't agree with him and think he's categorically wrong.

And worse than that, he's the one with the fringe extremist position!

[wombleh]

I think it’d make a lot more difference than one of those online govt petitions that tend to just get some junior admin person respond saying “thanks for your input, but we’re doing it anyway” or in some rare cases actually do result in a discussion in Parliament which 3 people attend.