What to do with a workplace accident?
Discussion
I had quite a fun Friday last week where i ended up taking a ride on a collapsing scaffold tower.
For people who know PASMA ( I don't, btw ) /ally scaffold towers, it was built using a 4 rung riser section as the base, instead of a 5 rung.
As the 4 rung wasn't tall enough, there were no diagonals on it, but some linked into a 2 rung half riser section on top. It from a manual i've just checked, that there are diagonals that should cover this, but we only had ones to work with a 5 rung frame.
As i took off the top riser, the tower collapsed.
I was always used to the different sections being stable in their own right, and didn't realise the bottom bit wouldn't stand up by itself.
Although i was winded, i got up, dusted myself off, and was half glad that not many people seen it, as there would be a big H&S b
king for everyone.
Normally, i'd put this down to experience and carry on, but one of my ribs has been getting more painful over the last couple of days, and i'm starting to wonder if i broke it.
The problem lies with the fact i'm a semi-sub-contractor (ie i'm aparently a subcontractor, but been working self employed for the same person for the last 3-4 years as a regular employee, minus the handy things like holiday pay, sick pay and redundancy.)
Not only that, it seems the foreman on the site put up the tower.
No accident book was filled in, and i haven't been at that site for the last 2 days either, but i'm heading back tomorrow.
This leaves with with grin and bear it, or rock the boat and put my name on the top of the "to fire" list after effectively grassing the foreman up.
And that is for just filling in the accident book, making a claim will get me maybe a few weeks wages for being sore, and plenty of time to rest as it would just happen to coincide with the end of my usefulness, and job. (Making a claim is the last thing on my mind as i quite hate that compensation culture)
I don't even know how important these accident books are, for all i know, i might even be breaking the law by not reporting it.
What would you lot do, carry on with a cover up? Cause a fuss and kick some ass?
From the point of view as an employer, would you rather face the music, fill out a load of forms, and include it on your CV about how H&S conscious you are, or in reality, do people just make out they are to get the annual Safety award, but would rather have an empty accident record book instead?
For people who know PASMA ( I don't, btw ) /ally scaffold towers, it was built using a 4 rung riser section as the base, instead of a 5 rung.
As the 4 rung wasn't tall enough, there were no diagonals on it, but some linked into a 2 rung half riser section on top. It from a manual i've just checked, that there are diagonals that should cover this, but we only had ones to work with a 5 rung frame.
As i took off the top riser, the tower collapsed.
I was always used to the different sections being stable in their own right, and didn't realise the bottom bit wouldn't stand up by itself.
Although i was winded, i got up, dusted myself off, and was half glad that not many people seen it, as there would be a big H&S b
king for everyone.Normally, i'd put this down to experience and carry on, but one of my ribs has been getting more painful over the last couple of days, and i'm starting to wonder if i broke it.
The problem lies with the fact i'm a semi-sub-contractor (ie i'm aparently a subcontractor, but been working self employed for the same person for the last 3-4 years as a regular employee, minus the handy things like holiday pay, sick pay and redundancy.)
Not only that, it seems the foreman on the site put up the tower.
No accident book was filled in, and i haven't been at that site for the last 2 days either, but i'm heading back tomorrow.
This leaves with with grin and bear it, or rock the boat and put my name on the top of the "to fire" list after effectively grassing the foreman up.
And that is for just filling in the accident book, making a claim will get me maybe a few weeks wages for being sore, and plenty of time to rest as it would just happen to coincide with the end of my usefulness, and job. (Making a claim is the last thing on my mind as i quite hate that compensation culture)
I don't even know how important these accident books are, for all i know, i might even be breaking the law by not reporting it.
What would you lot do, carry on with a cover up? Cause a fuss and kick some ass?
From the point of view as an employer, would you rather face the music, fill out a load of forms, and include it on your CV about how H&S conscious you are, or in reality, do people just make out they are to get the annual Safety award, but would rather have an empty accident record book instead?
At this late stage go to your GP. You'll wait forever in A&E and they probably won't xray it anyway as fractured ribs are very hard to spot. I'd definitely give the foreman a b
king in person but you've got to ask yourself whether word will get around about a claim. How small is the world that you work in? You don't want to get a small amount of compensation only to have everyone shun you. don't even know how important these accident books are, for all i know, i might even be breaking the law by not reporting it....
Yup, You or your boss should fill it in. There are lots of regs for scaffolding, working at heights. H&S like this sort of thing, one of their red buttons.
If you don't fill it in, some else might, and it will end up being your fault (if they take the view subbies are there to be blamed).
Yup, You or your boss should fill it in. There are lots of regs for scaffolding, working at heights. H&S like this sort of thing, one of their red buttons.
If you don't fill it in, some else might, and it will end up being your fault (if they take the view subbies are there to be blamed).
I'm not sure where you would stand reporting this now? Given that you stood up, brushed yourself off and carried on as normal from the sound of it, I could imagine an employer making the case that you probably fell over whilst drunk or something, and were trying it on. Doubtless they will have lawyers paid to think the worst of everybody.
MonkeyMatt said:
Accident book is a legal document under CDM. You should have reported it, did the tower have an up to date 'scaf tag'. The next person to have an accident might not be as lucky as you!
It sounds like a 'Zip-up' type scaffold from the OP's description so a Scaf-tag would not be required unless it is up for 7 days or more. Any platform that collapses must be reported to the HSE under RIDDORIt is difficult what to advise in this situation; no-one likes to rock the boat if they feel they will be shunned by the industry. Something does need to be said to somobody as it sounds like you (the OP) work with incompetent pillocks.
TheEnd said:
The problem lies with the fact i'm a semi-sub-contractor (ie i'm aparently a subcontractor, but been working self employed for the same person for the last 3-4 years as a regular employee, minus the handy things like holiday pay, sick pay and redundancy.)
That's well dodgy.Telly said said:
I had a nasty fall at work
quick, www.claimsdirect.com !!!! 
Seriously though hope you're all in one piece, sounds nasty.
i'd be careful here.
Why were you taking it down? Who was with you who knew how to take it down?
Hve you had any training on the equipment?
If not I'd step back from it all as being a subby will do you no favours.
Have a quiet chat with the foreman, maybe even a little friendly ribbing 3 (excuse the pun) as that will do more to prevent it happening again than reporting it.
tbh you'll get in just as much trouble for not reporting the incident in the first place.
Why were you taking it down? Who was with you who knew how to take it down?
Hve you had any training on the equipment?
If not I'd step back from it all as being a subby will do you no favours.
Have a quiet chat with the foreman, maybe even a little friendly ribbing 3 (excuse the pun) as that will do more to prevent it happening again than reporting it.
tbh you'll get in just as much trouble for not reporting the incident in the first place.
gareth.e said:
Go to hospital first...
Not quite right, sorry.From what you have said, I think your GP would be a more appropriate route. We do not x-ray for rib fractures (they don't always show up, and even if they do all we do is give painkillers). However, we do x-ray if there is any question of your rib 'puncturing your lung' causing a pneumothorax - someone needs to examine you first.
You won't "wait forever" in A&E - we have to see you within 4 hours, but the reason you can wait for so long is the number of people in front of you who should have gone to their GP...
Good luck. Hope you get better soon.
A few points
1. You, if not PASMA trained should not have been touching the scaffold, all alterations should be carried out by your foremans PASMA guy on site.
2. You think it was the foreman that built the thing, is he PASMA trained/certificated?
3. You should report it to your foreman, don't say you are going to put in a claim or mention the accident book, but if you've told the foreman at least you've done the right thing, and keeps your options open.
4. Go to hospital, get yourself looked at.
5. Your CIS status is a bit suspect, but thats more your employers problem than yours.
6. Consider the fact that while the foreman/site agent might want this covered up, his contracts manager/boss may not.
1. You, if not PASMA trained should not have been touching the scaffold, all alterations should be carried out by your foremans PASMA guy on site.
2. You think it was the foreman that built the thing, is he PASMA trained/certificated?
3. You should report it to your foreman, don't say you are going to put in a claim or mention the accident book, but if you've told the foreman at least you've done the right thing, and keeps your options open.
4. Go to hospital, get yourself looked at.
5. Your CIS status is a bit suspect, but thats more your employers problem than yours.
6. Consider the fact that while the foreman/site agent might want this covered up, his contracts manager/boss may not.
As carls post above really,
Lets just say i have an interest in accident reporting and the defending off claims.... By not reporting it at the time and by not recieving any medical attention at the time or at least shortly afterwards, it looks like you are ok but have had the idea of making a claim for some quick, or not so quick as it takes soo bloody long cash.
There is nothing wrong with reporting a genuine accident at the time and any employer which threatens someone job over that should be reported to the HSE. The fact is that you could class the collapse of scaffolding as a RIDDOR reportable which should be reported to the HSE in anycase.
Go to the doctor and get checked out, if you can carry on working without causing further damage then thats what i would do in your situation.
Lets just say i have an interest in accident reporting and the defending off claims.... By not reporting it at the time and by not recieving any medical attention at the time or at least shortly afterwards, it looks like you are ok but have had the idea of making a claim for some quick, or not so quick as it takes soo bloody long cash.
There is nothing wrong with reporting a genuine accident at the time and any employer which threatens someone job over that should be reported to the HSE. The fact is that you could class the collapse of scaffolding as a RIDDOR reportable which should be reported to the HSE in anycase.
Go to the doctor and get checked out, if you can carry on working without causing further damage then thats what i would do in your situation.
Edited by BGB autosport on Wednesday 20th May 10:27
I dont agree that the collapse should be reported as a dangerous occurence, as from what you have describe the scaffold would have been under 5m....If however you have broken a rib then that is a reportable injury and if your off for another day its over 3 days anyway.
Your employement situation is dodgy, strictly speaking if you ARE self employed you should report to RIDDOR, as should the Principal Contractor as they are in charge of the premises.
Sadly and this is a big BUT.....
Do remember though that, although the construction worker 'black list' has been brought out into the open........dont think for one second its not being used/updated.
Construction works is hard to come by at the moment as it is.
Your employement situation is dodgy, strictly speaking if you ARE self employed you should report to RIDDOR, as should the Principal Contractor as they are in charge of the premises.
Sadly and this is a big BUT.....
Do remember though that, although the construction worker 'black list' has been brought out into the open........dont think for one second its not being used/updated.
Construction works is hard to come by at the moment as it is.
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