Citizenship- Is it all about the passport?
Discussion
Okay, random question.
Are you only a British citizen if you have a British passport?
My boyfriend was born and raised in this country, his Mum is Dutch and his Dad is English. He has a Dutch passport, when he was growing up his Mum was the one that dealt with such things so she always got a Dutch passport for him. The last time it was due for renewel he decided to stick with the Dutch one for the time being due to various reasons.
With the upcoming election his council wrote to him informing him that he was NOT a British citizen and would have to fill in various forms to say that he spent more time in England than Holland, and would not vote in elections in Holland if he was also voting in ones in England.
They then failed to send out the forms on time, so they finally arrived on his doorstep several days after the cut off date for sending them back, which means he can't vote tomorrow.
Personally I think that this is a rather sneaky trick from said council, he lives in a Labour area (has never voted for them I should point out) so I'm wondering if they are simply trying to reduce some of the damage that's going to be dealt to them over the next few days.
He has never had a problem with voting before, and has always held a Dutch passport. Holland does not allow dual nationality so if he gets a British passport he'll never be able to get a Dutch one again.
He has a British birth certificate, surely that should be enough to be a citizen? Jusy wondering if anyone knew the law on this one?
Are you only a British citizen if you have a British passport?
My boyfriend was born and raised in this country, his Mum is Dutch and his Dad is English. He has a Dutch passport, when he was growing up his Mum was the one that dealt with such things so she always got a Dutch passport for him. The last time it was due for renewel he decided to stick with the Dutch one for the time being due to various reasons.
With the upcoming election his council wrote to him informing him that he was NOT a British citizen and would have to fill in various forms to say that he spent more time in England than Holland, and would not vote in elections in Holland if he was also voting in ones in England.
They then failed to send out the forms on time, so they finally arrived on his doorstep several days after the cut off date for sending them back, which means he can't vote tomorrow.
Personally I think that this is a rather sneaky trick from said council, he lives in a Labour area (has never voted for them I should point out) so I'm wondering if they are simply trying to reduce some of the damage that's going to be dealt to them over the next few days.
He has never had a problem with voting before, and has always held a Dutch passport. Holland does not allow dual nationality so if he gets a British passport he'll never be able to get a Dutch one again.
He has a British birth certificate, surely that should be enough to be a citizen? Jusy wondering if anyone knew the law on this one?
As I recall (and my memory may well be faulty), if he was born in the UK, his mother was a legal resident at the time and his birth was registered there, then he is a British citizen.
If his birth was registered in the Netherlands, then he has more of an issue. Since nationality passes on the mother's side under British law, he's scuppered. He should watch his Dutch status too, if he remains resident outside NL for more than 10 years, he may lose his Dutch passport.
Either way, he's entitled to vote in the European elections though. You only have to prove you're an EU citizen for that, I think (certainly that's the case in NL).
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Tomlev40 said:
IMO To be a citizen you need to at least of lived in the country for a bit. No fancy pieces of paper from HM secretry.
My daughter was born in the Philippines, to a Filipino mother, yet because I am the father she automatically got British citizenship. Thus she was issued a British passport, in Manila, even though she had never set foot in the UK.We all live in the UK now, but even if we hadn't she is still a British/UK citizen.
See below.... Seems fairly clearcut from the Home Office website. Immigration Law has changed recently (in what exact respect I don't know and my missus has been on maternity leave so she's not entirely up to date on the changes) so that might be the reason he's suddenly been told he can't vote.
If you were born in the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983, you are almost certainly a British citizen. The only exception is if you were born to certain diplomatic staff of foreign missions who had diplomatic immunity.
If you were born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983, you are a British citizen if at the time of your birth one of your parents was:
a British citizen; or
legally settled in the United Kingdom.
The main exception is if you were born in the UK but your parents were not British or not legally settled in the UK.
If you were born in the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983, you are almost certainly a British citizen. The only exception is if you were born to certain diplomatic staff of foreign missions who had diplomatic immunity.
If you were born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983, you are a British citizen if at the time of your birth one of your parents was:
a British citizen; or
legally settled in the United Kingdom.
The main exception is if you were born in the UK but your parents were not British or not legally settled in the UK.
Passports do not convey "citizenship" to the holder. Indeed, there are quite a few groups of foreign nationals who are entitled to hold a British passport but who are not entitled to automatic British citizenship and are not entitled to automatic right of abode in the UK.
In fact, although the word "citizenship" is used quite widely by the media and government sources, the legal term is "Naturalisation".
I know these things becasue I applied and obtained British naturalisation last year.
If you are not originally from the UK or are not entitled to hold British naturalisation through one or both of your parents, in order to be eligible for naturalisation you have to have lived in the UK for at least five years. If married to a UK citizen, then that time period is reduced to three.
After these time periods have passed, you can then apply to the Home Office for naturalisation. This involves filling in a fifteen page form which asks for all sorts of background details - including details of any criminal record you may have. Your application needs to be supported by two British citizens, neither of whom can be related to you in any way.
Before submitting the paperwork, you must then sit and pass the "Life in the UK" test at an approved test centre. You will find out on the day whether you passed or not.
If you pass, you can go ahead and submit the paperwork.
Last year, the whole process cost in the region of £650.
In fact, although the word "citizenship" is used quite widely by the media and government sources, the legal term is "Naturalisation".
I know these things becasue I applied and obtained British naturalisation last year.
If you are not originally from the UK or are not entitled to hold British naturalisation through one or both of your parents, in order to be eligible for naturalisation you have to have lived in the UK for at least five years. If married to a UK citizen, then that time period is reduced to three.
After these time periods have passed, you can then apply to the Home Office for naturalisation. This involves filling in a fifteen page form which asks for all sorts of background details - including details of any criminal record you may have. Your application needs to be supported by two British citizens, neither of whom can be related to you in any way.
Before submitting the paperwork, you must then sit and pass the "Life in the UK" test at an approved test centre. You will find out on the day whether you passed or not.
If you pass, you can go ahead and submit the paperwork.
Last year, the whole process cost in the region of £650.
I was born in South Africa but hold a Dutch passport, Mrs Pints holds a South African passport. My daughter was born in England and holds a British passport.
However, she would NOT have been entitled to a British passport if my wife and I had not been living in the UK for at least 5 years (and had been completely self-sufficient in that time) prior to her birth.
However, she would NOT have been entitled to a British passport if my wife and I had not been living in the UK for at least 5 years (and had been completely self-sufficient in that time) prior to her birth.
Eric: purely out of curiosity about the process/noseyness, what prompted you to apply for naturalisation? I take it you have lived and worked in the UK for a while, so what changed? Also, did you have to surrender your previous nationality or are you a dual-citizen now? Feel free not to answer if it's none of my business.
SamHH said:
Eric: purely out of curiosity about the process/noseyness, what prompted you to apply for naturalisation? I take it you have lived and worked in the UK for a while, so what changed? Also, did you have to surrender your previous nationality or are you a dual-citizen now? Feel free not to answer if it's none of my business.
It's a bit like decision as to whether to get married or not. I've lived here since 1986. I've been married to an English girl since 1990. All my work and personal ties are here rather than Ireland - so I decided to make a commitment.I still have my Irish passport (there's no requirement to surrender it) - mainly because it still has about six year to run and I'm too mean to pay for a new British one.
No doubt I'll apply for a British passport in due course.
speed8 said:
See below.... Seems fairly clearcut from the Home Office website. Immigration Law has changed recently (in what exact respect I don't know and my missus has been on maternity leave so she's not entirely up to date on the changes) so that might be the reason he's suddenly been told he can't vote.
If you were born in the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983, you are almost certainly a British citizen. The only exception is if you were born to certain diplomatic staff of foreign missions who had diplomatic immunity.
If you were born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983, you are a British citizen if at the time of your birth one of your parents was:
a British citizen; or
legally settled in the United Kingdom.
The main exception is if you were born in the UK but your parents were not British or not legally settled in the UK.
He's 1985 baby, his Dad is about as British as they come and his Mum had been living here for a decade or so when he was born, and since she was married to his Dad at the time I'm fairly positive she was legally settled. And he was indeed born in the UK, they go to Holland once every two years or so to catch up on the family (boyfriend doesn't speak much Dutch though so finds it difficult to understand what's being said XD).If you were born in the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983, you are almost certainly a British citizen. The only exception is if you were born to certain diplomatic staff of foreign missions who had diplomatic immunity.
If you were born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983, you are a British citizen if at the time of your birth one of your parents was:
a British citizen; or
legally settled in the United Kingdom.
The main exception is if you were born in the UK but your parents were not British or not legally settled in the UK.
Thanks for all the help guys!
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