Conspiracies at every turn
Discussion
It seems to me that with increasing frequency and in particular in the US their is a culture of conspiracy which is becoming evermore silly and annoying. But what should the public authorities do?
Look at significant events of public interest.
JFK, Diana, Munro, Jackson, WMD Intelligence, Elvis etc
There is a willingness by some sections to disbelieve the coroner, state authority, crown court or other public bodies. The (emminent) French surgeon, who catergorically stated in a public court that having operating on Princess Diana that she was not pregnant with Dodi's love child, had a really tough time and still isn't believed by some people.
So is it...
Some people think conspiracies are very funny, a kind of trolling.
Some people are very very stupid, and don't WANT to believe the truth.
Because there have been substantial government cover ups in the past (eg the Windscale disaster) then people are right to be more critical/cynical.
Personally I am all for a bit of cynicism in the right place, but I also believe a cock up is far more likely than a cover up.
We've just had almost a century of World War and Cold War, where misinformation was an effective and much used tool. We also have a bunch of politicians that cannot utter a single word of truth, and a media that exists purely to sell a product that would be better used as bog roll.
Sure, some of the conspiracy theories are lunacy. But you'd be even madder to believe everything you are told.
Sure, some of the conspiracy theories are lunacy. But you'd be even madder to believe everything you are told.
tegwin said:
The brainwashing seems to have worked on you then!
Believe everything you see in the media as gospel....
I wouldnt be atall suprised if whacjo Jacko was alive and well somewhere.....
Yes but some some of these - eg Diana, went to trial, people gave evidence on oath, were cross examined etc. Not a question of "the Sun says" Believe everything you see in the media as gospel....
I wouldnt be atall suprised if whacjo Jacko was alive and well somewhere.....
One of the worst downsides of the internet/information age, anyone can publicise anything and the perception by the uninformed masses is that all information is of equal value.
I remember discussing 911 with someone (a rense believer) who simply failed to grasp the concept of peer review.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, if you want your work recognised in the scientific community you subject it to scrutiny by experts in the field, not ill informed f
kwits.
This guys response was "it's in the public arena, it's on the internet, anyone can scrutinise it, if anything that's better than the "scientific" way"...uh huh...you've just demonstrated exactly why computers should be taken away from many, many people.
That's not to say coverups and propaganda don't exist, of course they do and there are routes to unearthing these, but some of the st in the last 15 years is beneath contempt for so many reasons.
ETA you only have to witness the complete bullst that went into the national press about the LHC to realise sensationalist bks is on the rise.
I remember discussing 911 with someone (a rense believer) who simply failed to grasp the concept of peer review.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, if you want your work recognised in the scientific community you subject it to scrutiny by experts in the field, not ill informed f
kwits. This guys response was "it's in the public arena, it's on the internet, anyone can scrutinise it, if anything that's better than the "scientific" way"...uh huh...you've just demonstrated exactly why computers should be taken away from many, many people.
That's not to say coverups and propaganda don't exist, of course they do and there are routes to unearthing these, but some of the s
t in the last 15 years is beneath contempt for so many reasons. ETA you only have to witness the complete bulls
t that went into the national press about the LHC to realise sensationalist bks is on the rise.Edited by DrTre on Friday 3rd July 11:04
Governments tell the truth , people believe them.
Governments tell lies , people dont believe them.
Just assume the Govt. is always lying to you and you wont be far wrong.
Reasonable doubt exists over the JFK/MLK/RFK assasinations & building 7WTC to warrant a further look.
Loony arguments : Jacko,Moon Landings, 7/7 London.
Completely barmy : Lizard people , Elvis is alive & Electric cars will save us all
Governments tell lies , people dont believe them.
Just assume the Govt. is always lying to you and you wont be far wrong.
Reasonable doubt exists over the JFK/MLK/RFK assasinations & building 7WTC to warrant a further look.
Loony arguments : Jacko,Moon Landings, 7/7 London.
Completely barmy : Lizard people , Elvis is alive & Electric cars will save us all
I think that Micheal Jackson has been dead (probably commited suicide over the kids thing) for years and one of his sisters has been posing as him. Until they could arrange a massive "final" concert which he could die just before in order to pull in a load of cash from people who want to keep the tickets as souvenirs..
This isnt something ive read on the internet, its just something i think, i have no evidence and TBH does it really matter in the grand scheme of things!
Its everyones right to think and say what they please (within reason ofcourse) and its everyones right to disagree within someone else's opinion. We all have strong feelings on different subjects and we arent all going to agree.
It is fair that we can all put our side across, when it comes to scientific evidence it is sometimes very clean cut (or appears to be) but then it is down to each and everyone of us to think about the motive behind the evidence, what arent we possibly being told that could contradict the evidence.
Some things are spun so that we think what the writer wants us to think, it is down to each and everyone of us to try to come up with a fair and balanced opinion. And sometime this brings alternative (slightly crazy sounding) ideas which are christened "conspiracies"
Sorry that turned into a bit of an long post
This isnt something ive read on the internet, its just something i think, i have no evidence and TBH does it really matter in the grand scheme of things!
Its everyones right to think and say what they please (within reason ofcourse) and its everyones right to disagree within someone else's opinion. We all have strong feelings on different subjects and we arent all going to agree.
It is fair that we can all put our side across, when it comes to scientific evidence it is sometimes very clean cut (or appears to be) but then it is down to each and everyone of us to think about the motive behind the evidence, what arent we possibly being told that could contradict the evidence.
Some things are spun so that we think what the writer wants us to think, it is down to each and everyone of us to try to come up with a fair and balanced opinion. And sometime this brings alternative (slightly crazy sounding) ideas which are christened "conspiracies"
Sorry that turned into a bit of an long post
Edited by Odie on Friday 3rd July 11:43
Jazzer77 said:
Loony arguments : Jacko,Moon Landings, 7/7 London.
The Moon Landing one always interested me. I reckon this is the most believed conspiracy theory out there. In a group of people at work or down the pub etc there are always one or two that believe it. I've sometimes known a group of about ten people where I'm the only one who thinks we did actually go to the moon!! 
It's barmy: we put a reflector up there to reflect lasers off (and do so each day), we brought rocks back, we went there many many times throughout the 60s and 70s (not just once!), every single of the conspiracy "reasons" (flapping flag, no stars in the sky) is nonsense. The Indians even took a photo of the Apollo 15 landing site when they were orbiting last month!!!
DrTre said:
One of the worst downsides of the internet/information age, anyone can publicise anything and the perception by the uninformed masses is that all information is of equal value.
I remember discussing 911 with someone (a rense believer) who simply failed to grasp the concept of peer review.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, if you want your work recognised in the scientific community you subject it to scrutiny by experts in the field, not ill informed fkwits.
This guys response was "it's in the public arena, it's on the internet, anyone can scrutinise it, if anything that's better than the "scientific" way"...uh huh...you've just demonstrated exactly why computers should be taken away from many, many people.
That's not to say coverups and propaganda don't exist, of course they do and there are routes to unearthing these, but some of the st in the last 15 years is beneath contempt for so many reasons.
ETA you only have to witness the complete bullst that went into the national press about the LHC to realise sensationalist bks is on the rise.
It's depressing isn't it. I've come across this myself many times, mostly with creationists spreading false misinformation (lies) to uneducated people to bring them to their beliefs. Creationist cretins like Ben Stein, Kent Hovind etc.I remember discussing 911 with someone (a rense believer) who simply failed to grasp the concept of peer review.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, if you want your work recognised in the scientific community you subject it to scrutiny by experts in the field, not ill informed f
kwits. This guys response was "it's in the public arena, it's on the internet, anyone can scrutinise it, if anything that's better than the "scientific" way"...uh huh...you've just demonstrated exactly why computers should be taken away from many, many people.
That's not to say coverups and propaganda don't exist, of course they do and there are routes to unearthing these, but some of the s
t in the last 15 years is beneath contempt for so many reasons. ETA you only have to witness the complete bulls
t that went into the national press about the LHC to realise sensationalist bks is on the rise.The problem is a general lack of rational thinking and the understanding of the scientific method. So many people seem to believe that you need faith in science just like a faith in God. They don't grasp, like you said - peer review, reproduce-able experiments, falsifiable theories etc.
In a way what some of these conspiracy theorists do is reasonable, they ask why a lot. Why did that happen, how does this work. The difference with the conspiracy people and rational people is when given an answer which doesn't fit in with their beliefs, even if that answer is backed up with mountains of evidence, it is dismissed entirely.
Another common trait amongst conspiracy theorists is their inability, either through ignorance or deliberate avoidance, to choose reliable sources. They will often scoff at a peer-reviewed scientific paper written by experts in their field - people who have dedicated their life to understanding their field of expertise - and instead get their information from websites such as abovetopsecret.com where the posters display little or no credentials as to why their ideas should be given any credence.
Which is strange, because a common retort by them is that you are close minded. They again fail to grasp a simple concept that being open minded shouldn't mean you believe everything you hear. It means be open to new ideas and concepts, but only if those new ideas and concepts have substance with proofs and are evidence based.
Believing in all conspiracies you hear without properly analysing the details doesn't make you open minded. It makes you gullible.
Edited by him_over_there on Friday 3rd July 12:01
RobM77 said:
What's the wackiest conspiracy theory then? 
My vote goes to David Ike's idea that all heads of state are in fact shapeshifting reptiles 
I always thought the Jewish Anti Defamation League were pretty nuts too - as far as they're concerned whenever David Icke says "alien shapeshifting lizard" what he actually means is "Jew" therefore he is a heinous anti-semite, even though most of the people he thinks are aliens aren't actually Jewish. My vote goes to David Ike's idea that all heads of state are in fact shapeshifting reptiles Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff