Road construction costs
Discussion
Hi All,
Probably put this in the wrong section... However I am due interested in finding out how much it would cost to have a road resurfaced. I know this is a strange request.
However I have just taken over as the chairmen of a private estate. We have just had a portion of the estate resurfaced and I think we have been fleeced and to be honest I think that the level of workmanship was poor.
Cheers
Sunil
Probably put this in the wrong section... However I am due interested in finding out how much it would cost to have a road resurfaced. I know this is a strange request.
However I have just taken over as the chairmen of a private estate. We have just had a portion of the estate resurfaced and I think we have been fleeced and to be honest I think that the level of workmanship was poor.
Cheers
Sunil
tvrgit said:
What do you mean by "resurfaced" - strip to sub base, new base and wearing course, or just scarify and replace wearing course? Or even cheaper, an overlay?. Or even cheaper still, seal and chip?
Was the road re-kerbed, does it have a footway, lighting?
So many variables.
Hi, Was the road re-kerbed, does it have a footway, lighting?
So many variables.
I am about to obtain the original spec. However I believe that the road was stripped to the sub base. I also believe that the kurb was raised and the footpaths were re done too...
Cheers
Sunil
Standard price books exist within the construction industry and they include typical charges, broken down into parts and labour etc, for all manner of stuff.
They are not that cheap but would allow you to price everything. A quick search found one here but you may beat that price.
Alternatively, you could find out everything that has been done and phone a Civil Engineering Consultancy and hope they will check their book for you.
Ask the company that did it for their Bill of Quantities and check all measurements before checking the prices and maths.
You may not have had your pants pulled down despite your shock at the cost because highways work is very expensive, particularly kerbing / paving etc.
They are not that cheap but would allow you to price everything. A quick search found one here but you may beat that price.
Alternatively, you could find out everything that has been done and phone a Civil Engineering Consultancy and hope they will check their book for you.
Ask the company that did it for their Bill of Quantities and check all measurements before checking the prices and maths.
You may not have had your pants pulled down despite your shock at the cost because highways work is very expensive, particularly kerbing / paving etc.
That's all very true Master Mischief, but prices of materials have shot up recently because they are related to oil prices.
On the other hand, overall contract tender prices should be very keen because there isn't a lot of work to go round and contractors are buying work just to keep themselves going... so prices can depend on how much other work is going on locally too.
On the other hand, overall contract tender prices should be very keen because there isn't a lot of work to go round and contractors are buying work just to keep themselves going... so prices can depend on how much other work is going on locally too.
I'll be honest, I believe that the current trust have been royally f**ked or someone is on the fiddle.
This is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
This is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
citychap26 said:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
This is quite usual, if a contractor has agreed/priced a schedule of rates then it is common for a contract to be 'let' based on 'measurement' this allows you to carryout as much work as a budget allows or as little as you want and be well aware of what that cost will beSounds like the job was not quoted properly.
Edited by spdpug98 on Monday 24th August 15:38
citychap26 said:
I'll be honest, I believe that the current trust have been royally f**ked or someone is on the fiddle.
This is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
it has been quoted but on the rates of a previous tender by the sounds of itThis is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
what you need to check is that they haven't increased the quantities
spdpug98 said:
citychap26 said:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
This is quite usual, if a contractor has agreed/priced a schedule of rates then it is common for a contract to be 'let' based on 'measurement' this allows you to carryout as much work as a budget allows or as little as you want and be well aware of what that cost will beSounds like the job was not quoted properly.
Edited by spdpug98 on Monday 24th August 15:38
Also the management company who we pay to do 4 days a week work related to the estate decided that we needed to have a clerk of the works.
They charged a further 2k on top of their monthly fees for this. I believe this to be a bit of a p*ss take.
Hmmm... reminds me of a tendering process I had to summarise for a client when I was a lad. We had made an allowance in the BoQ for an item "remove rock" and didn't expect much - so put in an indicative quantity of 4 or 5 cubic metres.
What you do then is take all the indicative quantities multiplied by the rate for each item to give a total tender price - and those totals are what are compared to decide the cheapest tender.
As I was comparing the rates, one tenderer had a HUGE rate for "remove rock" and the rest of his rates were slightly lower - so his overall itemised tender price was the lowest. He was taking the gamble that there was more rock than we thought - in which case he stood to make an absolute killing when the job was measured on completion.
A cute contractor might spot an underestimated quantity, overprice that item and then agree to carry out the work on a schedule of rates and final measure rather than a contract lump sum.
So moral of story is: check not just the totals, but the individual item prices. Ask to see the tenders to see if any of the quoted quantities have turned out to be much greater at final measure, and if the successful contractor has quoted a much higher rate for those underestimated quantities.
Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it - if the contractor is working to a Schedule of rates then the BoQ is one of the Contract Documents and you're held to it... not the contractor's fault the quantities turned out different after all...
What you do then is take all the indicative quantities multiplied by the rate for each item to give a total tender price - and those totals are what are compared to decide the cheapest tender.
As I was comparing the rates, one tenderer had a HUGE rate for "remove rock" and the rest of his rates were slightly lower - so his overall itemised tender price was the lowest. He was taking the gamble that there was more rock than we thought - in which case he stood to make an absolute killing when the job was measured on completion.
A cute contractor might spot an underestimated quantity, overprice that item and then agree to carry out the work on a schedule of rates and final measure rather than a contract lump sum.
So moral of story is: check not just the totals, but the individual item prices. Ask to see the tenders to see if any of the quoted quantities have turned out to be much greater at final measure, and if the successful contractor has quoted a much higher rate for those underestimated quantities.
Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it - if the contractor is working to a Schedule of rates then the BoQ is one of the Contract Documents and you're held to it... not the contractor's fault the quantities turned out different after all...
sleep envy said:
citychap26 said:
I'll be honest, I believe that the current trust have been royally f**ked or someone is on the fiddle.
This is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
it has been quoted but on the rates of a previous tender by the sounds of itThis is what I just received from the management company we have in place to run the day to day operations:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
what you need to check is that they haven't increased the quantities
Hmm, I think that the trust have been pretty stupid in the past and have let contractors take the p*ss
tvrgit said:
Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it - if the contractor is working to a Schedule of rates then the BoQ is one of the Contract Documents and you're held to it... not the contractor's fault the quantities turned out different after all...
yep, poor mamangement has let you downtvrgit said:
As I was comparing the rates, one tenderer had a HUGE rate for "remove rock" and the rest of his rates were slightly lower - so his overall itemised tender price was the lowest. He was taking the gamble that there was more rock than we thought - in which case he stood to make an absolute killing when the job was measured on completion.
Very common.A tender will be prepared based on actual costs + margin, then in internal tender review it will be spread.
citychap26 said:
spdpug98 said:
citychap26 said:
"was agreed as a “pro rata” rate subject to measurement at the end of the contract based on the rates obtained in the tender for resurfacing "
Sounds like the job was not quoted properly.
This is quite usual, if a contractor has agreed/priced a schedule of rates then it is common for a contract to be 'let' based on 'measurement' this allows you to carryout as much work as a budget allows or as little as you want and be well aware of what that cost will beSounds like the job was not quoted properly.
Edited by spdpug98 on Monday 24th August 15:38
Also the management company who we pay to do 4 days a week work related to the estate decided that we needed to have a clerk of the works.
They charged a further 2k on top of their monthly fees for this. I believe this to be a bit of a p*ss take.
Mattt said:
tvrgit said:
As I was comparing the rates, one tenderer had a HUGE rate for "remove rock" and the rest of his rates were slightly lower - so his overall itemised tender price was the lowest. He was taking the gamble that there was more rock than we thought - in which case he stood to make an absolute killing when the job was measured on completion.
Very common.A tender will be prepared based on actual costs + margin, then in internal tender review it will be spread.
tvrgit said:
Stuff about cost increases, work shortages and sharp contracting.
The books only serve as a guide and I should probably have made it more clear that the prices vary a lot depending on the material cost and whether or not the contractor actually wants the work. It should, as tvrgit says, be used as a rough guide only.Ad-measure contracts work if the client (or his consultant) are on the ball but this is often not the case.
The solution in major highways work can be to let design / build to consultants / contractors in stages (Initial design + planning approval / final design + build) with benefits for cost saving. A project that I worked on was so boderline corrupt that I can't really post the details but in simple terms cost was built in to be saved later and the savings split between client and design / build team. (It is how this was facilitated that was dodgy)
The point of my ramblings being that construction is a cute industry and profit can be hard to find so contractors will take advantage as per tvrgit's post. A good consultant can be a profitable investment, assuming that the project is big enough.
This is where the book that I mentioned above can help as a rough guide to spot loaded rates but the contact will stand regardless. The only hope is fiddled quantities (assuming an ad-measure contract).
Master Mischief said:
tvrgit said:
Stuff about cost increases, work shortages and sharp contracting.
The books only serve as a guide and I should probably have made it more clear that the prices vary a lot depending on the material cost and whether or not the contractor actually wants the work. It should, as tvrgit says, be used as a rough guide only.Ad-measure contracts work if the client (or his consultant) are on the ball but this is often not the case.
The solution in major highways work can be to let design / build to consultants / contractors in stages (Initial design + planning approval / final design + build) with benefits for cost saving. A project that I worked on was so boderline corrupt that I can't really post the details but in simple terms cost was built in to be saved later and the savings split between client and design / build team. (It is how this was facilitated that was dodgy)
The point of my ramblings being that construction is a cute industry and profit can be hard to find so contractors will take advantage as per tvrgit's post. A good consultant can be a profitable investment, assuming that the project is big enough.
This is where the book that I mentioned above can help as a rough guide to spot loaded rates but the contact will stand regardless. The only hope is fiddled quantities (assuming an ad-measure contract).
What I was trying to point out is that a cute contractor will take advantage of a naive or inexperienced manager and / or client, who isn't enough "on the ball" to spot even perfectly legal profit-enhancing practices, never mind the really dodgy stuff.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff