Selling / Posting Ebay Items - Who's responsible for loss ?

[OnlyMX5ives]

I've bought and sold a few things on Ebay and so far so good but just had wheel go missing (which was fortunately found) but it has got me thinking.

If I sell a set of (obsolete) wheels and one goes missing / is damaged who is legally liable ?

Does it matter if the purchaser declined to insure the delivery ?

Would the courier pay out for 4 wheels if only one has gone missing ?

Do you actually need the insurance or are the couriers liable anyway ?

Thanks

[TheCarpetCleaner]

Someone will probably be along shortly to correct me, but as far as i know, it is the sellers responsibility to get the goods to the buyer, and insure against loss accordingly.

Paypal advises to get a minimum of recorded delivery, otherwise there is not proof it was ever received.

[soad]

^
What he said above +1

[Lurking Lawyer]

Unless you use a method of sending that is online trackable, it's virtually certain that PayPal will find against you as the seller if the buyer was to raise a complaint and allege non-receipt.

PayPal say that it's in their T&Cs that you have to do so and so, if you don't, you effectively lose by default because you can't prove that they were received.

[bazking69]

Sellers. Even if you have all the proof under the sun this is only to satsify Paypal, who would do what they want and refund the buyer if there wasn't proof of delivery ie. it was lost en route, which would then leave it in your hands to claim the money you are out of pocket for back...

[stefd]

Taken from the BIS website:

"According to the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 the goods remain at the seller’s risk until they are delivered to the consumer. Thus the supplier is liable should the goods not arrive."

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-she...

[OnlyMX5ives]

Thanks...

So even if I take Paypal and Ebay out of the equation it is still the seller who is liable regardless.

So if I sell anything (private or business) it is my responsibility until it is signed for.

Thats a bit one sided !

So I guess to cover myself I have to send everything fully insured.

What if I get the buyer to arrange their own courier - presumably as they are instructing / paying them, I am only liable to give it to the courier ?

Reason for the question is that I'm getting increasing amounts of foreign buyers and the courier / insurance is prohibative so the buyers say they don't want it... but it seems really the insurance is pretty much for my benefit.

[TheCarpetCleaner]

It is not really that one sided IMO.

If I purchased something, sent you the money, you said you had sent it and it never arrived, then its a bum deal on the purchaser as they can't do anything about it.

I guess the best way to deal with it is work out the amount 1 out of every x would cost you if it went missing, and factor in how many items you could lose before it becomes a high risk.

[Lurking Lawyer]

OnlyMX5ives said:

Thanks...

So even if I take Paypal and Ebay out of the equation it is still the seller who is liable regardless.

As a matter of general law, yes. But that only becomes relevant if matters escalate as far as the courts.

For ebay/PayPal purposes though, at least anecdotally they are generally prepared to find in a seller's favour if there is a method of postage used that can be tracked online (assuming of course that all that is in issue is receipt - not condition on receipt etc).

[OnlyMX5ives]

Yes I always use Tracking so I can demonstrate I've sent it.

I also have 320+ positive feedback but to insure a set of £600 wheels is around £40 IME and buyers don't want to pay it.

But if they don't and they get lost then they would be quite likely to take court action for that amount and it seems I'd loose.

Consequently I'll have to insist on insurance from now on.

Although can anyone tell me the case if the buyer arranges / pays for collection as then the couriers are acting on his behalf so presumably I'd be ok and its solely their risk.