Pirates - has the Royal Navy lost it's balls?

[wildcat45]

Just seen a report on that couple taken hostage by pirates off Somalia.

Apparently there was a RFA tanker with embarked troops nearby when they got taken.

A special SBS team were not allowed to attempt a rescue.

After the pathetic pathetic HMS CORNWALL incident a couple of years ago, I have to ask, has the RN lost it's balls?

From my username the odd one of you may realise that I have connections with the RN (Though never in it I worked closely with them for years.) Makes me mad to see us behaving like pussies of the high seas.

I'm not advocating gun-toting US style crap. But FFS. British people in trouble at sea (Why the hell were they there? That's another arugment.) Grey funnel line vessel with Marines on baord and fk all is done.

Apparently the British guy says he was told by the pirates to order the fleet tanker to stand off.

So they just did that. Jesus.

Has the PC world got to the heart of oak?

What happened to the brave men that fought the fires of HMS Ardent and relcutantly left her after fighting for her life in the Falklands War?

The spirit of HMS Kelly in WWII? And the scores of other stories of heroism, and bucaneering spirit that made the RN what is was.



Rant over.

Edited by wildcat45 on Thursday 21st January 18:46

[Eric Mc]

How heavilly armed are RFA ships?

Was the RFA ship attacked?

[T350 Al]

Wasn't it a Rules of Engagement issue? I seem to recall that being quoted in an article?

[Famous Graham]

Eric Mc said:

How heavilly armed are RFA ships?

Not very.

Wave Knight and Wave Rider dock frequently here in Edinburgh - think they've got some 6" guns but that's about it as far as I could tell.

[Saddle bum]

Famous Graham said:

Eric Mc said:

How heavilly armed are RFA ships?

Not very.

Wave Knight and Wave Rider dock frequently here in Edinburgh - think they've got some 6" guns but that's about it as far as I could tell.

Armament: two 30 mm cannon; four 7.62 mm machine guns; fitted for but not with two Vulcan Phalanx.

The RN does not have 6-in guns in service.

[mel]

In answer to the question and in one world, Yes.

[wildcat45]

RoE is the issue here. For years we have played fair and it's got us into trouble.

RoE can be changed and do change.

Back in 1982 HMS COVENTRY's Lynx had no idea what she was firing on when she found an ammo ship in the murk. A couple of Sea Skua were none the less fired.

As for the light armament of RFA ships - its still better than the stuff pirates have.

I imagine too they have Mini Guns on RFAs

Whatever happened to warning shots, and acting on impulse.

I read the other day that the RN find armed guys at sea and chuck their weapons over the side. Then Woooo Big deal - they sink their boarding boats and send them on their way.

How about doing that and scaring the living st out of them. Dragging them onto a fleet tanker, let them have a chat with a few marines and then send them on their way.

It what happened when bad boys crossed the RN in Hong Kong back in the 1990s.

Sorry to rant - but this has - to use a popular PH term. Made my piss boil.

[Famous Graham]

Saddle bum said:

Famous Graham said:

Eric Mc said:

How heavilly armed are RFA ships?

Not very.

Wave Knight and Wave Rider dock frequently here in Edinburgh - think they've got some 6" guns but that's about it as far as I could tell.

Armament: two 30 mm cannon; four 7.62 mm machine guns; fitted for but not with two Vulcan Phalanx.

The RN does not have 6-in guns in service.

Fair enough, I wasn't taking notes at the time (and to be fair, I wouldn't know a 6" from 12") . At least one of the RFA boats has a trio of big guns on it, though.

I've got some pics of the Waves somewhere, hang on...

Edited by Famous Graham on Thursday 21st January 19:19

[Famous Graham]

Hmm...apparently not. At least, not uploaded. Only one I've got is of the arse end of Wave Knight




Here's Britannia instead

[anonymous-user]

An embarassment to the UK armed forces. They should all be thrown out of the Navy. What do we spend taxes for?

[-Pete-]

Just seen it on the news. I'm sorry for the couple who were sailing around near Somalia, seems a bit niaive to me, but I can't believe the Navy didn't do something. If a Navy ship sails up to the pirates, do you think they're going to hand over the hostages or start a gunfight? What would you do if a RN vessel sailed 100 yards and told you to hand over the hostages?

Who made that decision? What a pathetic loser, he/she should be thrown out tomorrow morning.

Great Britain in the 21st Century. Useless.

Edited by -Pete- on Thursday 21st January 22:12

[Rotary Madness]

Why does everyone go on about rules of engagement? Sure theyre the rules, but im sure most people would really mind if we started blowing the pirates out of the water, crew and weapons still on board? Whats the worst that could happen? AN angry letter from the UN? Somalia ceasing all trade with us? Hardly going to ruin us as a country.

[Nardies]

-Pete- said:

Who made that decision? What a pathetic loser, he/she should be thrown out tomorrow morning.

This.

Looks like they'll be dead soon and he'll have that on his conscience. Maybe.

[RizzoTheRat]

Rotary Madness said:

but im sure most people would really mind if we started blowing the pirates out of the water, crew and weapons still on board?

Wouldn't that be piracy?


There have been a couple of incidents where pirate ships have attacked military vessels (one was s French equivilent of an RFA, dunno what the other was), and come off worse. Dunno much about the specific case, but with the bigger cargo ships the shipping companies prefer to pay the ransom and get the ship, cargo and crew back than risk having it damaged, sunk, or crew lost.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 21st January 22:44

[-Pete-]

Rather than waste money killing Iraqis and Afghanistanis, why don't we spend a few hundred Million going to Somalia and killing pirates? Something to be proud of, for a change? I'm sure the Navy would be willing, it'd be a great training ground. I can't see the international community complaining either.

[Rotary Madness]

RizzoTheRat said:

Rotary Madness said:

but im sure most people would really mind if we started blowing the pirates out of the water, crew and weapons still on board?

Wouldn't that be piracy?


There have been a couple of incidents where pirate ships have attacked military vessels (one was s French equivilent of an RFA, dunno what the other was), and come off worse. Dunno much about the specific case, but with the bigger cargo ships the shipping companies prefer to pay the ransom and get the ship, cargo and crew back than risk having it damaged, sunk, or crew lost.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 21st January 22:44

Nope im pretty sure thats called antipiracy

[[AJ]]

wildcat45 said:

A special SBS team were not allowed to attempt a rescue.

That's what happens when politicians get in the way.

wildcat45 said:

After the pathetic pathetic HMS CORNWALL incident a couple of years ago, I have to ask, has the RN lost it's balls?

Yes

wildcat45 said:

I'm not advocating gun-toting US style crap.

Why not? The skinnies wouldn't be attempting to pirate military vessels if they thought they were going to get blown out of the water.

wildcat45 said:

Has the PC world got to the heart of oak?

Yep, thanks new labour**.

wildcat45 said:

What happened to the brave men that fought the fires of HMS Ardent and relcutantly left her after fighting for her life in the Falklands War?

The spirit of HMS Kelly in WWII? And the scores of other stories of heroism, and bucaneering spirit that made the RN what is was.

Politicians, 'human rights' activists and a whole load of other work-shy, benefit dependant, unwashed cretins have taken that option away from what's left of our brave men.

• labor |ˈleɪbə| ( Brit. labour)

noun
1 work, esp. hard physical work : the price of repairs includes labor and parts | manual labor.
• workers, esp. manual workers, considered collectively : nonunion casual labor.
• such workers considered as a social class or political force : [as adj. ] the labor movement.
• ( Labor) a department of government concerned with a nation's workforce : Secretary of Labor.
2 the process of childbirth, esp. the period from the start of uterine contractions to delivery : his wife is in labor.

• New Labour |ˈnuleɪbə| ( Brit. New labia)

1( Labour) [treated as sing. or pl. ] (in the UK) the Labour Party.
2 work-shy, esp. as little physical work as possible : raping those with work ethic through excessive taxation.
• workers, esp. idle, union drones who assemble to complain about manual work and the fact they have to contribute to society.
• such workers considered as a social class or political force : [as adj. ] the labor movement.
• ( Labor) a department of government concerned with raping a nation's skilled workforce : Secretary of Labor.

Edited by [AJ] on Thursday 21st January 23:28

[RobDickinson]

Nardies said:

This.

Looks like they'll be dead soon and he'll have that on his conscience. Maybe.

On all the lists I can find theres only 1 hostage that has died, and usualy the ship is recovered along with the crew (after $$$). Steaming in with guns may end up with a lot more friendlys dead.

Obviously something needs to be done but rushing into dangerous action isnt currently deemed the right way.

[TonyToniTone]

The marines were ready to go in but were stood down by UK HQ.
Shocking how close they were.

royal-marines-could-have-rescued-pirate-hostages-but-the-order-to-attack-never-came

[beakr]

Famous Graham said:

and to be fair, I wouldn't know a 6" from 12"

From what I remember, I think the 12"'s are about twice the size