To all you potential dog whisperers out there
Discussion
Some background info..we picked up a cocker spaniel ( with I think some springer DNA) last Wednesday night from an older lady who due to poor health could no longer look after him. He is 16 months old, neutered and house trained which was perfect for us as we did not want to go through house training. I walk him early in the morning (me 2 miles, him probably 5 chasing after his ball etc) and we then leave him for three hours before my wife returns from work and walks him again. He them gets another walk to pick up our sone from school and I also walk him on return from work at say 6.00pm as above with a final round the houses at say 10.00pm. He has been very good and has had no accidents in the house and I think he is getting enough walks.
He is a little snappy if you take a toy off him which I am working on with him now. The main issue is that when my son returns from school he will not settle and runs up and down the kitchen , spins round and round, chelping at both my son and wife as she will be in the kitchen making tea etc Also god forbid she should receive a phonecall where he then barks at her. He can also be settled in his basket / bed on the sofa( yes I know it was the wife's idea!!) and should someone then leave the room, he immediately leaps up and barks, spinning furiously until I settle him..its got to the point where I leave the living room door open with my hand flapping so he can see I am still there to stop him barking. I'm guessing there are separation issues going on... but we have always had a "calm" house and this is beginning to drive my wife crazy ( i'm the main dog person in case you hadn't guessed)
So what wonderful words can I whisper into my dog's ear that will resolve this matter??
He is a little snappy if you take a toy off him which I am working on with him now. The main issue is that when my son returns from school he will not settle and runs up and down the kitchen , spins round and round, chelping at both my son and wife as she will be in the kitchen making tea etc Also god forbid she should receive a phonecall where he then barks at her. He can also be settled in his basket / bed on the sofa( yes I know it was the wife's idea!!) and should someone then leave the room, he immediately leaps up and barks, spinning furiously until I settle him..its got to the point where I leave the living room door open with my hand flapping so he can see I am still there to stop him barking. I'm guessing there are separation issues going on... but we have always had a "calm" house and this is beginning to drive my wife crazy ( i'm the main dog person in case you hadn't guessed)
So what wonderful words can I whisper into my dog's ear that will resolve this matter??
This is not a case for on here I would say. You really need to seek professional advice, I would suggest contacting your vets as a first port of call. They may have a nurse who can provide advice (you'll need to go to an appt and they should be someone who should at least have some good knowledge in the field) If they don't have anyone they could suggest a proper behaviourist.
It's difficult to know what this dog has been allowed to get away with previously. There will be techniques suggested on here that may be fine but a professional bahvioutist should visit and see for themselves what he is doing and work out a plan for you all to work to.
If you follow well meaning but in the end incorrect advice from here it can worsen the situation. The springer in it is probably contributing to the hyperactivity
.
It's difficult to know what this dog has been allowed to get away with previously. There will be techniques suggested on here that may be fine but a professional bahvioutist should visit and see for themselves what he is doing and work out a plan for you all to work to.
If you follow well meaning but in the end incorrect advice from here it can worsen the situation. The springer in it is probably contributing to the hyperactivity
.Edited by becksW on Wednesday 17th March 09:42
I'd attempt a few things first before the vet, if they don't work then you can still go to a vet or behaviourist.
The dog probably had a gentile lifestyle and now it is full on. It's most full on when your family gets noisy at night when the child is home.
I would suggest that you could ask your son and wife to pay him no attention once they get in the house until a set period is up and then it is not too over the top. Another possibility is to buy a crate and instead of him walking to school with mum to pick up the son, put him in the crate and then he is ignored until later or after you get home and then after you are all home and quiet let him out, you could give him his tea at this point rather than lots of attention to occupy him.The crate should be in the kitchen or another room where you are. The dog will settle then. It would be good to get into a routine where the dog gets to know that a certain time period is quiet, either he occupies himself or time for a nap in the crate.
I'm not one for "pack" as an answer to a lot of things, but dogs are very atune to level of excitement and it seems to be happening when your "pack" is at it's most excited and noisy and he is gearing it up as well to match.
Andy
The dog probably had a gentile lifestyle and now it is full on. It's most full on when your family gets noisy at night when the child is home.
I would suggest that you could ask your son and wife to pay him no attention once they get in the house until a set period is up and then it is not too over the top. Another possibility is to buy a crate and instead of him walking to school with mum to pick up the son, put him in the crate and then he is ignored until later or after you get home and then after you are all home and quiet let him out, you could give him his tea at this point rather than lots of attention to occupy him.The crate should be in the kitchen or another room where you are. The dog will settle then. It would be good to get into a routine where the dog gets to know that a certain time period is quiet, either he occupies himself or time for a nap in the crate.
I'm not one for "pack" as an answer to a lot of things, but dogs are very atune to level of excitement and it seems to be happening when your "pack" is at it's most excited and noisy and he is gearing it up as well to match.
Andy
Agress with Becks, better to get someone in who knows what they are doing. If you don't do that at least go to a local dog club and discuss with trainers there. But idealy you need an expert to do a home visit and see the dogs reaction, and your reaction as well. Well done on getting a rescue though.
Advice from a professional friend of mine, based on what you have written:
The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
Sway said:
Advice from a professional friend of mine, based on what you have written:
The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
All reasonable but there is another issue here, the dog has been snappy with toys so this dog has more than one issue going on, that's what concerns me and why they should have someone visit sooner rather than later, your friend sounds like a good start though.The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
Re: other poster, there is nothing wrong in seeking help (via a vets, not the vet themselves) sooner help is sought the better. I saw a yr old shih tzu put down after the owner had tried for 6 months to follow TV tips for its behaviour, it then eventually bit a grandchild. Unfortunatley it was too late to do anything. Had that dog been seen 6 months earlier there is every chance we could have helped it and the owner.
becksW said:
Re: other poster, there is nothing wrong in seeking help (via a vets, not the vet themselves) sooner help is sought the better. I saw a yr old shih tzu put down after the owner had tried for 6 months to follow TV tips for its behaviour, it then eventually bit a grandchild. Unfortunatley it was too late to do anything. Had that dog been seen 6 months earlier there is every chance we could have helped it and the owner.
I didn't say there was, just gave the poster options before they did so. As I have found out from personal experience dog behviourists tend to be rather hit and miss as well, we have been given different advice from 3 of them now. Therefore there is no guarrantee their advice is better than my own above and certainly won't be as cheap.Andy
WorAl said:
He's a cocker/springer spaniel, they are all mental. Not much hope sorry, I've never met a sane one yet.
Our springer has anxiety problems so he's rather a handful. I've got a nice workaround for chronic possessiveness now though after a bit of lateral thinking on the training front. Andy
zakelwe said:
becksW said:
Re: other poster, there is nothing wrong in seeking help (via a vets, not the vet themselves) sooner help is sought the better. I saw a yr old shih tzu put down after the owner had tried for 6 months to follow TV tips for its behaviour, it then eventually bit a grandchild. Unfortunatley it was too late to do anything. Had that dog been seen 6 months earlier there is every chance we could have helped it and the owner.
I didn't say there was, just gave the poster options before they did so. As I have found out from personal experience dog behviourists tend to be rather hit and miss as well, we have been given different advice from 3 of them now. Therefore there is no guarrantee their advice is better than my own above and certainly won't be as cheap.Andy
I just get so frustrated that people leave it so long before they seek the help they should and thinking a vets is a last resort when it should be a first port of call. (We don't charge for our time the nurse clinics are free) and a general car forum is going to provide too many options. They'll get a lot more than 3 different suggestions on here and they will all be well intentioned but potentially wrong and how is the OP going to know which is the correct approach.
becksW said:
zakelwe said:
becksW said:
Re: other poster, there is nothing wrong in seeking help (via a vets, not the vet themselves) sooner help is sought the better. I saw a yr old shih tzu put down after the owner had tried for 6 months to follow TV tips for its behaviour, it then eventually bit a grandchild. Unfortunatley it was too late to do anything. Had that dog been seen 6 months earlier there is every chance we could have helped it and the owner.
I didn't say there was, just gave the poster options before they did so. As I have found out from personal experience dog behviourists tend to be rather hit and miss as well, we have been given different advice from 3 of them now. Therefore there is no guarrantee their advice is better than my own above and certainly won't be as cheap.Andy
I just get so frustrated that people leave it so long before they seek the help they should and thinking a vets is a last resort when it should be a first port of call. (We don't charge for our time the nurse clinics are free) and a general car forum is going to provide too many options. They'll get a lot more than 3 different suggestions on here and they will all be well intentioned but potentially wrong and how is the OP going to know which is the correct approach.
Same with books, people can be overwhelmed with books all taking different ways to do things, modern v traditional being the obvious split.
Stephen R Lyndsay's books are excellent though. Not something you can read in a night or two though.
Andy
zakelwe said:
WorAl said:
He's a cocker/springer spaniel, they are all mental. Not much hope sorry, I've never met a sane one yet.
Our springer has anxiety problems so he's rather a handful. I've got a nice workaround for chronic possessiveness now though after a bit of lateral thinking on the training front. Andy
Coincidence here is that we've just got a Welsh Spaniel also a re-home, about the same age. She's a lovely thing but is very wilful, she'll sit, stay and come to call all day long until she see's a bird then she's off like gazelle.
Driving me bonkers and I've been wondering how to sort it. Very good information about never calling her to tell her off, I have been doing that after she's had an accident inside, I won't do that going forward. Also, I've probably sounded cross when she's bolted off across the fields after a pheasant - not helping I suspect.
With all my other dogs (Daschunds, Irish Wolfhounds, Collies) once they'd got the idea they'd always sit, come etc. It seems like Spaniels are a bit mad, so any other suggestions chaps? All information is gratefully received.
Driving me bonkers and I've been wondering how to sort it. Very good information about never calling her to tell her off, I have been doing that after she's had an accident inside, I won't do that going forward. Also, I've probably sounded cross when she's bolted off across the fields after a pheasant - not helping I suspect.
With all my other dogs (Daschunds, Irish Wolfhounds, Collies) once they'd got the idea they'd always sit, come etc. It seems like Spaniels are a bit mad, so any other suggestions chaps? All information is gratefully received.
becksW said:
Sway said:
Advice from a professional friend of mine, based on what you have written:
The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
All reasonable but there is another issue here, the dog has been snappy with toys so this dog has more than one issue going on, that's what concerns me and why they should have someone visit sooner rather than later, your friend sounds like a good start though.The dog considers itself to be at least equal to the humans in the house, mainly due to things like being allowed up on the sofa as his bed, and the way you are pandering to it's barked commands with the doors open/ gestures of reassurance etc.
She'd recommend getting a proper dog crate as it's bed, and this should be on the floor (height equals dominance to a certain extent).
First get the dog used to it's new bed (loads if stuff on the web, but effectively you need to make it his space, with chew toys, bedding etc), and at the point where it will gladly go in it's bed on command. (never, ever use the bed as 'punishment', as this will undo your work getting the dog acclimatised).
Then, as you know the scenarios where the attention seeking problems occur, a few minutes prior to this, put the dog in it's bed and shut the door. (part of getting the fog used to it's crate is to get it used to being confined in there, but in a good way, as it's the dogs chance for some me time with toys and treats).
If the dog creates when you leave the room, ignore it completely. It will quickly learn that the behaviour does not get a response, so will stop bothering.
Hope that helps, not sure where you are but my friend is happy to give advice over the phone, although she did say that this isn't ideal, and onsite coaching for you and your family in how to act when the dog is doing unwanted behaviour is much, much better...
PM me if you'd like her details..
Regards,
Sam
Re: other poster, there is nothing wrong in seeking help (via a vets, not the vet themselves) sooner help is sought the better. I saw a yr old shih tzu put down after the owner had tried for 6 months to follow TV tips for its behaviour, it then eventually bit a grandchild. Unfortunatley it was too late to do anything. Had that dog been seen 6 months earlier there is every chance we could have helped it and the owner.
as far as my friend is concerned, the two issues are connected - due to feeling at least equal to the humans in the household, it feels capable of demanding from them, either in terms of attention, or possession of toys etc.
By creating the crate as his area, and therefore everywhere else as human controlled, the dog should learn that it is effectively submissive to the will of the humans (not in a Ceaser Millan way, but in the sense that the dog has no control over humans, but they have a degree of control over him).
Once this is learnt, and demonstrated by obedience when told to 'go to bed' etc., then it should allow play outside the crate with a seperate set of toys (rope tugs, balls etc) with the humans in the family/pack. Before then, play should not be encouraged or in many ways possible (don't allow him to remove the chews from his crate, don't have any toys outside the crate).
By creating this knowledge in animal terms that humans are dominant, play outside the crate should be able to be conducted without any issues over nipping/possessiveness etc.
Just to let you know, this method worked excellently with our (unfortunately rehomed due to health issues) very dominant in nature collie female, to the point where we were very quickly able to allow our 2 year old to play tug of war (supervised of course) without a single incident. Thi was after receiving a couple of fairly nasty nips myself when I tried to rush things and get to the fun stuff...
All about setting down clear boundaries and roles (again, I don't feel the levels Mr Millan goes to are reasonable in the majority of cases) as soon as possible, and it's this foundation that then allows years of happiness and fun...
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