Have we all become purse-lipped, judemental Victorians?
Discussion
I was a teenager in the sixties, a time of quite refreshing anarchy. I was reflecting on this in Beijing this week, when I stopped in to the cigar lounge in my hotel. Cigar Lounge?.....try finding one of those in most Western cities these days.
We now appear to have rules about everything and attitudes about things that should have rules. The mouse od disapproval that goes up if someone has an accident (moron, his fault),being fat, (disgusting, but more acceptable in print that racism so you have to hate something), speeding, (reckless scoff laws),smoking,dressing like a chav and chav names, being stupid, and a million other apparent transgressions of the Code of Excellent Behaviour has become deafening, THe self satisfaction of being an upstanding adherent of the C.E.B is amazing.
SO I have a few proposal to the Code of Adult Freedom.
(1) Fast Lanes for fast drivers, with rigourous qualifications to use them and a stiff fee. No limit on motorways fast lanes. Raise the speed limits on country roads that are lightly used. Yes< i know there might be a slight uptick in accidents, but these pale statistically with other mishaps we all have. We all enjoy a run on the autobahn, and its not some sort of moral transgression to like to use your car properly on road as well as track. I have done maybe 60,000km on the autobahns and they're fine.
Yes, I have seen the results of accidents, and been a passenger in a fatal one, and that does not change my view. We are still dealing in probabilities.
(2) Smoking lounges where demanded. Smokers sign
a waiver that they will l only receive painkillers or palliiative treatment (this should assuage any fears that they are costing everyone money, thought dying early is actually good for the pension funds in fact). Smoking lounges separately vented and self service from the regular lounge next door. ( I only smoke a cigar a month and no ciggies by the way, but I would like to do it in the peace ad quiet of a nice place like n most emerging successful economies.
(3) excessively fat people buy two economy seats, Then, leave 'em alone. They're not hurting you if you don't have to be squashed.
(4) If I want to name my kid Twinkle, Fescue, or the magnificent Ignatius Mungo, why does anyone else care?
(5) Chave. Certainly antisocial behaviour has to be addressed properly, ( more BiB here rather than on the perry traffic offence stuff?. However, if they want to have a certain appearance, so what?..I remember the outcry against Teddy Boys, Rockers, mods,Hippies and ll the rest. There will always be such groups.
The
social issue is the declining economy. I spend a great deal of time in Asia, and it is frankly terrifyin how the locus of the world has changed. There are simply not enough jobs and undereducated people are in deep, deep trouble. We have built a permanent underclass, and people born into it have no chance..
No solution to this but laughter and contempt does not seem productive.
It is disappointing that we elect people who surround us with ever more rules, invasions of privacy, and endless propaganda about everything from accident statistics,nutrition, child rearing, and a million other things. Little old ladies with radar guns. CCTV in every corner of our lives.
I iike the fact that I can drive the Nurburgring or autobahn with minimal fuss or rules, eat fugu in Tokyo,..or some a cigar in a nice cigar bar in Singapore, Mumbai, Beijing or a host of other places. INteresting the Souther US is also a place with a healthy disrespect for the nanny state. Adult decisions may have adult consqqueces, but that's my choice.
The Victorians were rule-bound prigs, and now we laufh at their obsession with ankles and a host of other behaviours. I think we should look in the mirror. we are becoming the same thing, now with the State in tow.
Hopefully there will be a reaction. There usually is.
We now appear to have rules about everything and attitudes about things that should have rules. The mouse od disapproval that goes up if someone has an accident (moron, his fault),being fat, (disgusting, but more acceptable in print that racism so you have to hate something), speeding, (reckless scoff laws),smoking,dressing like a chav and chav names, being stupid, and a million other apparent transgressions of the Code of Excellent Behaviour has become deafening, THe self satisfaction of being an upstanding adherent of the C.E.B is amazing.
SO I have a few proposal to the Code of Adult Freedom.
(1) Fast Lanes for fast drivers, with rigourous qualifications to use them and a stiff fee. No limit on motorways fast lanes. Raise the speed limits on country roads that are lightly used. Yes< i know there might be a slight uptick in accidents, but these pale statistically with other mishaps we all have. We all enjoy a run on the autobahn, and its not some sort of moral transgression to like to use your car properly on road as well as track. I have done maybe 60,000km on the autobahns and they're fine.
Yes, I have seen the results of accidents, and been a passenger in a fatal one, and that does not change my view. We are still dealing in probabilities.
(2) Smoking lounges where demanded. Smokers sign
a waiver that they will l only receive painkillers or palliiative treatment (this should assuage any fears that they are costing everyone money, thought dying early is actually good for the pension funds in fact). Smoking lounges separately vented and self service from the regular lounge next door. ( I only smoke a cigar a month and no ciggies by the way, but I would like to do it in the peace ad quiet of a nice place like n most emerging successful economies.
(3) excessively fat people buy two economy seats, Then, leave 'em alone. They're not hurting you if you don't have to be squashed.
(4) If I want to name my kid Twinkle, Fescue, or the magnificent Ignatius Mungo, why does anyone else care?
(5) Chave. Certainly antisocial behaviour has to be addressed properly, ( more BiB here rather than on the perry traffic offence stuff?. However, if they want to have a certain appearance, so what?..I remember the outcry against Teddy Boys, Rockers, mods,Hippies and ll the rest. There will always be such groups.
The
social issue is the declining economy. I spend a great deal of time in Asia, and it is frankly terrifyin how the locus of the world has changed. There are simply not enough jobs and undereducated people are in deep, deep trouble. We have built a permanent underclass, and people born into it have no chance..No solution to this but laughter and contempt does not seem productive.
It is disappointing that we elect people who surround us with ever more rules, invasions of privacy, and endless propaganda about everything from accident statistics,nutrition, child rearing, and a million other things. Little old ladies with radar guns. CCTV in every corner of our lives.
I iike the fact that I can drive the Nurburgring or autobahn with minimal fuss or rules, eat fugu in Tokyo,..or some a cigar in a nice cigar bar in Singapore, Mumbai, Beijing or a host of other places. INteresting the Souther US is also a place with a healthy disrespect for the nanny state. Adult decisions may have adult consqqueces, but that's my choice.
The Victorians were rule-bound prigs, and now we laufh at their obsession with ankles and a host of other behaviours. I think we should look in the mirror. we are becoming the same thing, now with the State in tow.
Hopefully there will be a reaction. There usually is.
RDMcG said:
We have built a permanent underclass, and people born into it have no chance..
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but the above is just complete crapI was born into a family on the breadline
With a crap education I still managed to drag myself up to a level I feel proud of and hope this is just the start
There are many, many other people that are examples of this on PH
If you get off your arse and try (really try) you can be who you want to be and get what you want to get
Edited by AngryApples on Saturday 18th September 19:56
I grew up in Blackpool as a teenager in the 90s and literally had to fight against the normality of twizzling fg candy floss and selling ice creams to get where I am today. Without that impetus, extra arrogance and (self imposed) luck to get out there and achieve something with your life there seems to be very little hope.
I have given up on everyone else though to be honest - there is a massive problem with a lot of the people who inhabit this country as well as the weird rules and expectations placed upon us all. The 'good' amongst us apologise when someone does us a wrong turn and are permanently made to feel guilty about some phantom crime we've committed
Also I've always screamed and shouted at the abhorrence of what constitutes popular culture these days and the effect it has on us all. Our unexplainable fascination with Pop Music, X Factor, Big Brother, Jeremy Kyle etc. seems to be taking priority in so many people's lives and leaving us all 'dumb'; truly there are people out there so wrapped up in these freak shows that they have lost all concept of why they are alive or any meaning to their existence!
But I don't want to fight it. If circa 12 million people wish to watch what is essentially Simon Cowell getting richer, whilst having a laugh at a few deluded souls who've been told (by there Jeremy Kyle watching friends) that they have talent, then fair enough. I suppose we used to throw rotten food at each other in the stocks hundreds of years ago so what's the difference?
I'm now at a point where I just enjoy my own life, my own interests and let others be. I still want to pull people out of their cars and shove their indicator stalks up their as when they fail to use them, but have learned to just carry on and tell myself that they are part of a wider problem which doesn't affect (snobby little) me! 
g candy floss and selling ice creams to get where I am today. Without that impetus, extra arrogance and (self imposed) luck to get out there and achieve something with your life there seems to be very little hope.I have given up on everyone else though to be honest - there is a massive problem with a lot of the people who inhabit this country as well as the weird rules and expectations placed upon us all. The 'good' amongst us apologise when someone does us a wrong turn and are permanently made to feel guilty about some phantom crime we've committed
Also I've always screamed and shouted at the abhorrence of what constitutes popular culture these days and the effect it has on us all. Our unexplainable fascination with Pop Music, X Factor, Big Brother, Jeremy Kyle etc. seems to be taking priority in so many people's lives and leaving us all 'dumb'; truly there are people out there so wrapped up in these freak shows that they have lost all concept of why they are alive or any meaning to their existence!
But I don't want to fight it. If circa 12 million people wish to watch what is essentially Simon Cowell getting richer, whilst having a laugh at a few deluded souls who've been told (by there Jeremy Kyle watching friends) that they have talent, then fair enough. I suppose we used to throw rotten food at each other in the stocks hundreds of years ago so what's the difference?
I'm now at a point where I just enjoy my own life, my own interests and let others be. I still want to pull people out of their cars and shove their indicator stalks up their a
s when they fail to use them, but have learned to just carry on and tell myself that they are part of a wider problem which doesn't affect (snobby little) me! Well refreshing anarchy is one way to describe it. I seem to remember a lot of parties, alcohol and easy girls.
The ones who sat at home and watched University Challenge with their parents are the ones now running the country.
Their teen years were miserable, they became the frigging that are now getting their retribution by making our lives a misery.
Crucifixion is too good for em.
Hmm...... it would appear I still have a little anarchy remaining.
The ones who sat at home and watched University Challenge with their parents are the ones now running the country.
Their teen years were miserable, they became the frigging
that are now getting their retribution by making our lives a misery. Crucifixion is too good for em.
Hmm...... it would appear I still have a little anarchy remaining.
AngryApples said:
RDMcG said:
We have built a permanent underclass, and people born into it have no chance..
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but the above is just complete crapI was born into a family on the breadline
With a crap education I still managed to drag myself up to a level I feel proud of and hope this is just the start
There are many, many other people that are examples of this on PH
If you get off your arse and try (really try) you can be who you want to be and get what you want to get
Edited by AngryApples on Saturday 18th September 19:56
In those good time we built a safety net that was too safe, in retrospect, and then three things happened.
(1) lot of jobs were replaced by software and sutomation.
Remember all the people behind counters in stores,ban clerks, and car workers?
(2) Companies began to compete globally and did the whole exit packages thing, which made the exmposed to massive liabilities in their pension funds, and the active working populatio was faced with the burden of suporting more retirees and laid off people than we ever imagined.
(3) We exported huge numbers of jobs in to other parts of the world. ( I am aware that there was no choice if you are to remain competitive).
There is no question that a percentage of people who are diligent.agile,street smart and ambitious will break through all barriers, and some of them will become very successful My point was more that the barriers for a poorly educated person to finding a job are actually quite high. I am not for a moment defending those who are professional users of welfare, but I think we have grown up a society who sees this as a right and have no ambition, knowledge, direction ,or the first clue as to how to get up off the ground. I do think its harder now than it was in my teenage years. Much harder.
very interesting post from canada.
it always seems ironic to me that for all it's liberal aspirations, canada is a massively regulated country.
it is also interesting to see a reference to chavs, all the expat forums, populated by folks in canada, on on their way there, they cite the lack of chavs as a reason for wanting to move there.
There is a huge underclass issue in canada, possibly as a consequence of their immigration policy, which is focussed on widening the base of the pyramid with incomers, trying to keep top jobs for their own. This means many of the cheap paying jobs go to new immigrants from the far east. How does this affect non grads trying to get a basic job?. Try finding staff that you can understand in Tim Hortons, that isnt an imminent retiree.
it always seems ironic to me that for all it's liberal aspirations, canada is a massively regulated country.
it is also interesting to see a reference to chavs, all the expat forums, populated by folks in canada, on on their way there, they cite the lack of chavs as a reason for wanting to move there.
There is a huge underclass issue in canada, possibly as a consequence of their immigration policy, which is focussed on widening the base of the pyramid with incomers, trying to keep top jobs for their own. This means many of the cheap paying jobs go to new immigrants from the far east. How does this affect non grads trying to get a basic job?. Try finding staff that you can understand in Tim Hortons, that isnt an imminent retiree.
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