Christening... Or Baptism or whatever the funk you want to call it.
Discussion
Right, from the start, please, please, please, do not let this descend into the usual guff between people who believe in God and those who just want to mock. Yeah?
Anyway, I'm getting my daughter Christened in the next couple of months. Religion doesn't play a huge part in my life but I do believe. I have my beliefs about who should and should not be put forward as Godparents and to put it simply, if you don't hold the same beliefs as I do and my church, you're not f
king doing it. I also think one Godmother and one Godfather pretty much covers it, too many is tacky.
My wife, however, thinks that in addition to both my sisters and brother, both her sisters should both be put forward as Godmothers. Of her sisters, one is a silly flighty flake who will never be given any responsibility over my daughter and the other, while a mature and responsible adult, doesn't believe in God and hasn't got her own son Christened. In my eyes, the whole "not believing in God" thing is pretty much a bar to being a Godparent. The clue is in the name. She could be a sponsor of some sort in a "naming ceremony" that has become popular amongst athiests perhaps, but to me anyway, an unsuitable Godparent.
There are two people I'd have, my brother and his fiancée. Those two and no-one else.
So, how do I go about telling my wife that her sisters are definitely not doing it? She seems pretty set on the entire set of 4 sisters and one brother doing it...
Anyway, I'm getting my daughter Christened in the next couple of months. Religion doesn't play a huge part in my life but I do believe. I have my beliefs about who should and should not be put forward as Godparents and to put it simply, if you don't hold the same beliefs as I do and my church, you're not f
king doing it. I also think one Godmother and one Godfather pretty much covers it, too many is tacky. My wife, however, thinks that in addition to both my sisters and brother, both her sisters should both be put forward as Godmothers. Of her sisters, one is a silly flighty flake who will never be given any responsibility over my daughter and the other, while a mature and responsible adult, doesn't believe in God and hasn't got her own son Christened. In my eyes, the whole "not believing in God" thing is pretty much a bar to being a Godparent. The clue is in the name. She could be a sponsor of some sort in a "naming ceremony" that has become popular amongst athiests perhaps, but to me anyway, an unsuitable Godparent.
There are two people I'd have, my brother and his fiancée. Those two and no-one else.
So, how do I go about telling my wife that her sisters are definitely not doing it? She seems pretty set on the entire set of 4 sisters and one brother doing it...
Ask about the role of godparent in front of your vicar/bishop/pope/whatever and that should put your missus straight.
What's more important though? Your views of who should be suitable as godparent and what you think "looks tacky" or compromising and avoiding a potentially long running cause for conflict with your wife?
What's more important though? Your views of who should be suitable as godparent and what you think "looks tacky" or compromising and avoiding a potentially long running cause for conflict with your wife?
obob said:
What are the actual responsibilities of a godparent?
As the child is too young to take any vows to live a life following God's wishes, the Godparent takes those vows on behalf of the child until they're old enough to do it themselves. And also if my wife and I get smashed up in a horrible accident then they'll look after the kid... Hence the flake not doing it.
Papa Hotel said:
obob said:
What are the actual responsibilities of a godparent?
As the child is too young to take any vows to live a life following God's wishes, the Godparent takes those vows on behalf of the child until they're old enough to do it themselves. And also if my wife and I get smashed up in a horrible accident then they'll look after the kid... Hence the flake not doing it.
Edited by Dracoro on Tuesday 28th September 10:45
el stovey said:
Ask about the role of godparent in front of your vicar/bishop/pope/whatever and that should put your missus straight.
What's more important though? Your views of who should be suitable as godparent and what you think "looks tacky" or compromising and avoiding a potentially long running cause for conflict with your wife?
It's just the numbers involved that would be tacky, we can disregard that bit though since for me the over-riding bar to the vast pile of Godparents she wants is their lack of suitability, either through (lack of) maturity or (lack of) belief. What's more important though? Your views of who should be suitable as godparent and what you think "looks tacky" or compromising and avoiding a potentially long running cause for conflict with your wife?
Dracoro said:
Papa Hotel said:
obob said:
What are the actual responsibilities of a godparent?
As the child is too young to take any vows to live a life following God's wishes, the Godparent takes those vows on behalf of the child until they're old enough to do it themselves. And also if my wife and I get smashed up in a horrible accident then they'll look after the kid... Hence the flake not doing it.
Edited by Dracoro on Tuesday 28th September 10:45
Unfortunately, OP, your daughter is your wife's child as much as yours, and as such she gets as much a say in her upbringing as you do.
Her beliefs may also differ from yours (you cannot tell from your posts) and as such, I would imagine that some compromise is required on this one.
The whole "These are my beliefs about this institution/role are this, so this is how it is" thing is remarkably inflexible.
I am Buddhist, and a godparent 2 times over, and a "sponsor" once (in the latter case it was because of a vicar who did not want a non-Christian up in the church before her God and making meaningless promises to Him; which I regarded as entirely fair).
A Godparent's duties are not just religious - in fact this is only a part of them in today's world. Precluding a woman who is otherwise suitable (and indeed could be a positive influence on your daughter), but does not believe in your God seems somewhat churlish - especially as it flies in the face of the other parent's wishes.
I would say that your excuse for excluding the other sister on the basis of her being no sort of role model is a far better and more relevant one.
Hope none of this was offensive - and all IMHO, of course.
Her beliefs may also differ from yours (you cannot tell from your posts) and as such, I would imagine that some compromise is required on this one.
The whole "These are my beliefs about this institution/role are this, so this is how it is" thing is remarkably inflexible.
I am Buddhist, and a godparent 2 times over, and a "sponsor" once (in the latter case it was because of a vicar who did not want a non-Christian up in the church before her God and making meaningless promises to Him; which I regarded as entirely fair).
A Godparent's duties are not just religious - in fact this is only a part of them in today's world. Precluding a woman who is otherwise suitable (and indeed could be a positive influence on your daughter), but does not believe in your God seems somewhat churlish - especially as it flies in the face of the other parent's wishes.
I would say that your excuse for excluding the other sister on the basis of her being no sort of role model is a far better and more relevant one.
Hope none of this was offensive - and all IMHO, of course.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 28th September 10:52
Harry Flashman said:
Unfortunately, OP, your daughter is your wife's child as much as yours, and as such she gets as much a say in her upbringing as you do.
Her beliefs may also differ from yours (you cannot tell from your posts) and as such, I would imagine that some compromise is required on this one.
The whole "These are my beliefs about this institution/role are this, so this is how it is" thing is remarkably inflexible.
A Godparent's duties are not just religious - in fact this is only a part of them in today's world. Precluding a woman who is otherwise suitable (and indeed could be a positive influence on your daughter), but does not believe in your God seems somewhat churlish - especially as it flies in the face of the other parent's wishes.
My wife doesn't know what to believe, she was Christened herself but I think the best description for her is Agnostic. Her beliefs may also differ from yours (you cannot tell from your posts) and as such, I would imagine that some compromise is required on this one.
The whole "These are my beliefs about this institution/role are this, so this is how it is" thing is remarkably inflexible.
A Godparent's duties are not just religious - in fact this is only a part of them in today's world. Precluding a woman who is otherwise suitable (and indeed could be a positive influence on your daughter), but does not believe in your God seems somewhat churlish - especially as it flies in the face of the other parent's wishes.
The (almost) suitable sister, like I said, hasn't had her own son Christened... if she doesn't believe in it then how can she be asked to do it for someone else? In my view, she can't. The spiritual aspect of Christening is probably the most important and she simply doesn't care about that.
Why on earth did you get married when you hold such strong inflexible views?
Surely you should have discussed this with her before walking into a church and vowing to spend the rest of your lives together?
Problem is, you view the christening as a wholly religious affair and your wife doesn't. This is going to be a problem, your view is that as you have your opinion it is your way or no way, very "victorian dad" but not very good for a compromising relationship.
If you don't feel like you are "the boss" in this relationship then it is time to start talking and compromising.
Surely you should have discussed this with her before walking into a church and vowing to spend the rest of your lives together?
Problem is, you view the christening as a wholly religious affair and your wife doesn't. This is going to be a problem, your view is that as you have your opinion it is your way or no way, very "victorian dad" but not very good for a compromising relationship.
If you don't feel like you are "the boss" in this relationship then it is time to start talking and compromising.
freecar said:
Problem is, you view the christening as a wholly religious affair and your wife doesn't.
Christening. The clue is right there in the name. How many Greenpeace fanboys work the BP rigs?
How many BAE engineers turn out for CND rallies?
How many prossies sing the virtues of celibacy?
And how many athiests should take part in a Christening, promising to promote Christian spirituality?
It's a tricky one. I wonder - why does your wife want the christening (or whatever YOU call it as it's your religion)? If she isn't a full-on, church-attending Christian, then she should leave the choice of god-parents to you.
How about another approach? Ask the flake (and the non-believer) if she is interested and explain the duties and responsibilities of a god-parents with lots of emphasis on teaching the child about the bible and so on. It could have two effects:
1) she takes the role seriously and becomes a more responsible person
2) she turns down your offer as something she doesn't want to do
How about another approach? Ask the flake (and the non-believer) if she is interested and explain the duties and responsibilities of a god-parents with lots of emphasis on teaching the child about the bible and so on. It could have two effects:
1) she takes the role seriously and becomes a more responsible person
2) she turns down your offer as something she doesn't want to do
Edited by ShadownINja on Tuesday 28th September 11:53
Leave your kid alone. If they find a god in their own time, that's much more valid than being force-fed it before they know how to sit up.
Let them ask to be Christened, then you'll know they mean it.
And if you want them 'in' the church ASAP so that if the worst happens they'll still go to heaven, then a god who would refuse the soul of an infant isn't a god worth worshipping anyway.
Let them ask to be Christened, then you'll know they mean it.
And if you want them 'in' the church ASAP so that if the worst happens they'll still go to heaven, then a god who would refuse the soul of an infant isn't a god worth worshipping anyway.
Edited by BarnatosGhost on Tuesday 28th September 11:58
My wife isn't particularly bothered whether the thing goes ahead or not, it's me who has more of an interest... I need to talk to her about why she is so interested in including people in something that absolutely none of them really care about.
She thinks it "would be nice"... Nice isn't enough.
She thinks it "would be nice"... Nice isn't enough.
BarnatosGhost said:
Leave your kid alone. If they find a god in their own time, that's much more valid than being force-fed it before they know how to sit up.
Let them ask to be Christened, then you'll know they mean it.
And if you want them 'in' the church ASAP so that if the worst happens they'll still go to heaven, then a god who would refuse the soul of an infant isn't a god worth worshipping anyway.
Yeah, cheers for that. Let them ask to be Christened, then you'll know they mean it.
And if you want them 'in' the church ASAP so that if the worst happens they'll still go to heaven, then a god who would refuse the soul of an infant isn't a god worth worshipping anyway.
Edited by BarnatosGhost on Tuesday 28th September 11:58
Papa Hotel said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Leave your kid alone. If they find a god in their own time, that's much more valid than being force-fed it before they know how to sit up.
Yeah, cheers for that. I declined the role of Godparent because I saw what patent tosh was spouted at a Christening ceremony.
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 28th September 12:05
Papa Hotel said:
obob said:
What are the actual responsibilities of a godparent?
As the child is too young to take any vows to live a life following God's wishes, the Godparent takes those vows on behalf of the child until they're old enough to do it themselves. And also if my wife and I get smashed up in a horrible accident then they'll look after the kid... Hence the flake not doing it.
God parents of today are those who are there to support the child if anything happens to them and they do not necessarily need to be religious to do this.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff