Prohormones, any using them?
Discussion
Has anyone got experience of using prohormones? I know that they carry many of the potential side effects of steroids (hair loss, achne, gyno, liver damage), but this only seems to affects certain people from what I can tell (read the potential side effects of any medicine and you'd never take something like anti biotics again!! some people react badly, others dont).
My understanding is that the hair loss will only affect you if you are genetically destined to have hair loss anyway, and achne isnt a major concern. My biggest concern is after you have completed a month cycle, and your body has to take over in producing the strength hormone again, if your body has come to rely on the prohormone for the strength hormone will your bodies ability to produce this after your cycle be negatively affected long term? or would the post cycle therapy pretty much return your natural production to normal?
Wouldnt want to end up needing HRT or something due to taking a cycle of these, and am just trying to guage what the real, rather then hyped, risks of a prohormone are. They were touted as safe for years and only made illegal in sports a short time ago. The liver damage aspect can be reduced with increased water intake and a PCT containing milk thistle, but obviously any long term liver damage would be a concern too.
Would be good to hear from anyone with experience, thinking along the lines of t-bullets or similar, with a PCT of thistle milk and a natural test booster.
Cheers
My understanding is that the hair loss will only affect you if you are genetically destined to have hair loss anyway, and achne isnt a major concern. My biggest concern is after you have completed a month cycle, and your body has to take over in producing the strength hormone again, if your body has come to rely on the prohormone for the strength hormone will your bodies ability to produce this after your cycle be negatively affected long term? or would the post cycle therapy pretty much return your natural production to normal?
Wouldnt want to end up needing HRT or something due to taking a cycle of these, and am just trying to guage what the real, rather then hyped, risks of a prohormone are. They were touted as safe for years and only made illegal in sports a short time ago. The liver damage aspect can be reduced with increased water intake and a PCT containing milk thistle, but obviously any long term liver damage would be a concern too.
Would be good to hear from anyone with experience, thinking along the lines of t-bullets or similar, with a PCT of thistle milk and a natural test booster.
Cheers
Edited by Tokoloshe on Friday 26th August 10:39
My understanding is these are steroids but with a different name, may well be more harsh than many too. Treat them as such, as they carry all the risks of normal steroid use.
Not my thing- I think I can progess fine with out them and my well compete in a tested sport in the future- but each to their own.
By the by- what's you reason for taking them? Cosmetic or sport?
Not my thing- I think I can progess fine with out them and my well compete in a tested sport in the future- but each to their own.
By the by- what's you reason for taking them? Cosmetic or sport?
didelydoo said:
My understanding is these are steroids but with a different name, may well be more harsh than many too. Treat them as such, as they carry all the risks of normal steroid use.
Not my thing- I think I can progess fine with out them and my well compete in a tested sport in the future- but each to their own.
By the by- what's you reason for taking them? Cosmetic or sport?
You are correct they are legalised steroids. They can be dangerous if not treated with respect.Not my thing- I think I can progess fine with out them and my well compete in a tested sport in the future- but each to their own.
By the by- what's you reason for taking them? Cosmetic or sport?
The problem with them is they have no track record and nobody is sure of the long term effects of using them even for short periods of time.
They also provide gains that are very hard to keep because they cause the body to adapt in such a short period.
As for PCT, don't kid yourself with the milk thistle route, it's simply a mild substance that is woefully inadequate to deal with the effects of the drug. Also 95% of test booster don't do anything.
The reason Prohormones are popular is because of places like the US that have very strict anti-steroid rules.
In the UK steroids are legal to poses for person use, they are also dramatically cheaper (like 1/4 the price) and about 1000% more effective.
If you've got any other questions just ask them.
Guys,
Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
N88 said:
Guys,
Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
Don't bother, get diet and training sorted instead. IMO.Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
Slagathore said:
Are prohormones the same as growth hormone?
I've heard talk of growth hormone being the best you can get with the least amount of side affects? But it's bloody expensive?
Not wanting to take it, just never heard of pro hormones before and curious.
Sorry to take it off topic.
GH is something very different and horrendously expensive not to mention nearly impossible to get good quality I'm told. I've heard talk of growth hormone being the best you can get with the least amount of side affects? But it's bloody expensive?
Not wanting to take it, just never heard of pro hormones before and curious.
Sorry to take it off topic.
I know a lot of folks doing all sorts and very few do GH because of the quality issues. It's generally accepted it's better to do peps which cause natural GH release which is of a very high quality.
didelydoo said:
N88 said:
Guys,
Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
Don't bother, get diet and training sorted instead. IMO.Slight thread hijack here! I'm looking at starting on a natural testosterone booster to give me a bit of a kick in the gym. At the moment I'm thinking of something like ALRI Pro Anabol or BBS D-Aspartic Acid, if you're familiar with them. I've done a fair bit of reading and they seem to be quite mild and don't require any form of post cycle therapy as after all they're natual test boosters, and people do report good gains. I'm 22, been training for around 4 years now and 6ft 13st.
Any one used any of these before?
Ordinary_Chap said:
GH is something very different and horrendously expensive not to mention nearly impossible to get good quality I'm told.
I know a lot of folks doing all sorts and very few do GH because of the quality issues. It's generally accepted it's better to do peps which cause natural GH release which is of a very high quality.
What are peps? Don't think I've heard of them before? Not getting much joy on Google either.I know a lot of folks doing all sorts and very few do GH because of the quality issues. It's generally accepted it's better to do peps which cause natural GH release which is of a very high quality.
Slagathore said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
GH is something very different and horrendously expensive not to mention nearly impossible to get good quality I'm told.
I know a lot of folks doing all sorts and very few do GH because of the quality issues. It's generally accepted it's better to do peps which cause natural GH release which is of a very high quality.
What are peps? Don't think I've heard of them before? Not getting much joy on Google either.I know a lot of folks doing all sorts and very few do GH because of the quality issues. It's generally accepted it's better to do peps which cause natural GH release which is of a very high quality.
The most common are GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.
There is a forum you can apply for access too if you're interested called http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/
http://peptide-guide.com/ghrp/
You can't hang around bodybuilding forums and not know this stuff lol!
Ordinary_Chap said:
Sorry, they are peptides.
The most common are GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.
There is a forum you can apply for access too if you're interested called http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/
http://peptide-guide.com/ghrp/
You can't hang around bodybuilding forums and not know this stuff lol!
I don't hang around bodybuilding forums, to be honest. I do have an interest in it, but mostly focussed on getting lean rather than getting bigger, so most of this is fairly new to me. most of the time it's just referred to as 'gear'. Which, as you know, is a massively broad term. hahaThe most common are GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.
There is a forum you can apply for access too if you're interested called http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/
http://peptide-guide.com/ghrp/
You can't hang around bodybuilding forums and not know this stuff lol!
Some interesting info on that peptide guide site. It's all bloody confusing though. There's soo many different things you can take. I just know from people from the gym that growth hormone was meant to be good for gaining size and getting body fat low. Not heard them mention those peptides before.
Slagathore said:
I don't hang around bodybuilding forums, to be honest. I do have an interest in it, but mostly focussed on getting lean rather than getting bigger, so most of this is fairly new to me. most of the time it's just referred to as 'gear'. Which, as you know, is a massively broad term. haha
Some interesting info on that peptide guide site. It's all bloody confusing though. There's soo many different things you can take. I just know from people from the gym that growth hormone was meant to be good for gaining size and getting body fat low. Not heard them mention those peptides before.
Generally you're correct- the stuff that 'works' can be termed gear. Most other stuff is a con- used by people wanting progress that doesn't reflect there efforts- 99% of the time the time it does sweet FA.Some interesting info on that peptide guide site. It's all bloody confusing though. There's soo many different things you can take. I just know from people from the gym that growth hormone was meant to be good for gaining size and getting body fat low. Not heard them mention those peptides before.
Basic work in the gym (and diet) will determine the outcome, regardless if you're clean or not.
Slagathore said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Sorry, they are peptides.
The most common are GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.
There is a forum you can apply for access too if you're interested called http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/
http://peptide-guide.com/ghrp/
You can't hang around bodybuilding forums and not know this stuff lol!
I don't hang around bodybuilding forums, to be honest. I do have an interest in it, but mostly focussed on getting lean rather than getting bigger, so most of this is fairly new to me. most of the time it's just referred to as 'gear'. Which, as you know, is a massively broad term. hahaThe most common are GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.
There is a forum you can apply for access too if you're interested called http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/
http://peptide-guide.com/ghrp/
You can't hang around bodybuilding forums and not know this stuff lol!
Some interesting info on that peptide guide site. It's all bloody confusing though. There's soo many different things you can take. I just know from people from the gym that growth hormone was meant to be good for gaining size and getting body fat low. Not heard them mention those peptides before.
Most folk who want to get lean and grow simply go for testosterone given its the most effective and super cheap.
Personally I prefer the long road and don't think any of it is necessary but then I'm fairly liberal and don't judge folk who choose to use the stuff.
didelydoo said:
Generally you're correct- the stuff that 'works' can be termed gear. Most other stuff is a con- used by people wanting progress that doesn't reflect there efforts- 99% of the time the time it does sweet FA.
Basic work in the gym (and diet) will determine the outcome, regardless if you're clean or not.
Yeah, I knew a few people that are just looking for an easy fix before actually looking at their diet and training. probably just doing more harm than good.Basic work in the gym (and diet) will determine the outcome, regardless if you're clean or not.
But then there are the few that use it with good results, and they are massive, but I think that's what happens when you get competitive with it.
Ordinary_Chap said:
Thats very true. Peptides cause GH release which is better than even the most pure synthetic GH. If you can buy real GH it's for most at least several hundred a month and it's not unheard of for it to go into 4 figures.
Most folk who want to get lean and grow simply go for testosterone given its the most effective and super cheap.
Personally I prefer the long road and don't think any of it is necessary but then I'm fairly liberal and don't judge folk who choose to use the stuff.
Yeah, might have to start researching how to make my body release more growth hormone naturally. Will get this last bit of fat off and see how I look and decide if I want to get a bit bigger or get back in to running properly.Most folk who want to get lean and grow simply go for testosterone given its the most effective and super cheap.
Personally I prefer the long road and don't think any of it is necessary but then I'm fairly liberal and don't judge folk who choose to use the stuff.
Agree about doing it the hard way, much more stisfaction that way, but I can understand why people want to take it. Especially from the fat less side of things. You start to see improvements, but then want more. There are loads of fat burner types that I thought about trying, but then I just think they're probably illegal for a reason, and the list of side effects can be a bit scary to read, as always though, you speak to some people. and they don't get any of the side effects listed. Hit and miss I guess.
didelydoo said:
Slagathore said:
But then there are the few that use it with good results, and they are massive, but I think that's what happens when you get competitive with it.
Steroids and pro-hormones do work- I was getting at the vast majority of the other stuff (test boosters etc.) don't.As you say, that's most likely because they don't work.
Slagathore said:
didelydoo said:
Slagathore said:
But then there are the few that use it with good results, and they are massive, but I think that's what happens when you get competitive with it.
Steroids and pro-hormones do work- I was getting at the vast majority of the other stuff (test boosters etc.) don't.As you say, that's most likely because they don't work.
So the over the counter pills are often very, very harsh on the body and the milk thistle madness is silly. OTC Prohormones can be super toxic and milk thistle just can't cut it AT ALL in helping the body recover from it. Same goes for test boosters for a PCT, waste of time.
Prohormones are also super expensive vs the real stuff, its hard for folk to keep the size when they come off them and the other problem is their long term effects on the body are not known.
So in a country where steroids are legal if folk want to do that thing then using them is super cheap, tried and tested approach and much safer than prohormones. It's a bit of a no brainer really.
I read various bodybuilding sites and you can clearly see the shift between those in the UK and the US for instance. In the US prohormones are very popular for hobbyist bodybuiders due to the US treating steroids as hard drugs and having tough punishment for them, were as in the US the pro's still do the real stuff because their careers rely on it even if there is significant risk in doing it.
In the UK where steroids are legal nearly all hobbyist bodybuilders use the real stuff (who use anything that is) since it's legal to own and it's only the 16-20 crowd who buy prohormones really.
You should head over to http://www.testosteronemuscle.co.uk to see what people are up to!
Ordinary_Chap said:
Lets be clear over the counter stuff does work in a way.
So the over the counter pills are often very, very harsh on the body and the milk thistle madness is silly. OTC Prohormones can be super toxic and milk thistle just can't cut it AT ALL in helping the body recover from it. Same goes for test boosters for a PCT, waste of time.
Prohormones are also super expensive vs the real stuff, its hard for folk to keep the size when they come off them and the other problem is their long term effects on the body are not known.
So in a country where steroids are legal if folk want to do that thing then using them is super cheap, tried and tested approach and much safer than prohormones. It's a bit of a no brainer really.
I read various bodybuilding sites and you can clearly see the shift between those in the UK and the US for instance. In the US prohormones are very popular for hobbyist bodybuiders due to the US treating steroids as hard drugs and having tough punishment for them, were as in the US the pro's still do the real stuff because their careers rely on it even if there is significant risk in doing it.
In the UK where steroids are legal nearly all hobbyist bodybuilders use the real stuff (who use anything that is) since it's legal to own and it's only the 16-20 crowd who buy prohormones really.
You should head over to http://www.testosteronemuscle.co.uk to see what people are up to!
Thanks for the link. Some really good information on the stickied threads in pretty much all the sections.So the over the counter pills are often very, very harsh on the body and the milk thistle madness is silly. OTC Prohormones can be super toxic and milk thistle just can't cut it AT ALL in helping the body recover from it. Same goes for test boosters for a PCT, waste of time.
Prohormones are also super expensive vs the real stuff, its hard for folk to keep the size when they come off them and the other problem is their long term effects on the body are not known.
So in a country where steroids are legal if folk want to do that thing then using them is super cheap, tried and tested approach and much safer than prohormones. It's a bit of a no brainer really.
I read various bodybuilding sites and you can clearly see the shift between those in the UK and the US for instance. In the US prohormones are very popular for hobbyist bodybuiders due to the US treating steroids as hard drugs and having tough punishment for them, were as in the US the pro's still do the real stuff because their careers rely on it even if there is significant risk in doing it.
In the UK where steroids are legal nearly all hobbyist bodybuilders use the real stuff (who use anything that is) since it's legal to own and it's only the 16-20 crowd who buy prohormones really.
You should head over to http://www.testosteronemuscle.co.uk to see what people are up to!
Gunna take a while to read up on it. Haha! I'm glad I don't want to get bodybuilder big, I thnk the temptation to try some of these would be too great. I can see how it can tempt people though. I think, to a certain extent, we're never really happy with how we look, so always want to get that little bit bigger/defined.
I've read about celebrities taking growth hormone because it has some anti aging effects. Makes it a bit more interesting. I'd imagine they have all there doses worked out very carefully and have all the best advice available to them.
After consideration Ive decided I'm going to "stay clean". Ive pushed up my cal intake and am pushing hard in my workouts, and am still getting some results. I think if I get another 7 pounds on me Ill be more than happy.
I read up on those links above, plus a few others, and the risks outweigh the reward for me. One thing that brought it home is that as soon as you start taking these things you're no longer a clean bodybuilder, and Ill take more pride in what I achieve doing it the old fashioned way, taking the longer and more difficult route, rather than looking for the same quicker gains by risking my health.
Ive been training for 6 years now, though about 3 years ago I started swimming seriously and stopped weight training, and dropped as low as 9 and a half stone!! Im a small guy at 5"7 so even at that weight I didnt look like I was starving, but in the 3 years since Ive gained 3 stone and am now 12 and a half stone, so ultimately that's not bad going when you consider weight training is a hobby, and it's all natural gains. Im still creeping up in size slowly, though as Im 40 next year I guess I have to contend with an ever decreasing testosterone supply, just got to make the most of what nature gave me and appreciate the health and physique I have.
I read up on those links above, plus a few others, and the risks outweigh the reward for me. One thing that brought it home is that as soon as you start taking these things you're no longer a clean bodybuilder, and Ill take more pride in what I achieve doing it the old fashioned way, taking the longer and more difficult route, rather than looking for the same quicker gains by risking my health.
Ive been training for 6 years now, though about 3 years ago I started swimming seriously and stopped weight training, and dropped as low as 9 and a half stone!! Im a small guy at 5"7 so even at that weight I didnt look like I was starving, but in the 3 years since Ive gained 3 stone and am now 12 and a half stone, so ultimately that's not bad going when you consider weight training is a hobby, and it's all natural gains. Im still creeping up in size slowly, though as Im 40 next year I guess I have to contend with an ever decreasing testosterone supply, just got to make the most of what nature gave me and appreciate the health and physique I have.
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