Anyone done CPR?
Discussion
Random question, I've got my re-certification coming up at work for my First Aid and also saw this on the BBC site:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16406687
Which got me thinking, I'm sure that the great PH community can top some of those stories with our own tales of heroism?
Well I can't, most serious thing I've ever treated was a panic attack... You get the idea though
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16406687
Which got me thinking, I'm sure that the great PH community can top some of those stories with our own tales of heroism?
Well I can't, most serious thing I've ever treated was a panic attack... You get the idea though
Whitester said:
And how are they supposed to breathe with no air? f
ktards
They're not advocating that people who know what they're doing avoid giving M2M, they're just trying to get people who are too prissy about it or too panicked to do something, rather than nothing. ktardsIf they spend a couple of minutes trying to give M2M, and get it wrong, they do nothing. I've seen enough people making fart noises on a Resus-Annie to know it's not something that people will get right first time, factor in panic and they're best off just getting what oxygen is left going round.
Of course, they could just teach the basics in school and give quick refresher courses, but that'd be too easy.
I have. Posted the story on a similar thread on PH a few month ago. Spoken through the process by an emergency call operator (i was actually a qualified first aider but at the time it was shere panic) when I came upon a horrible crash after work a few year ago. Sixteen year old girl unfortunately didnt make it.
Could dig out the story if anybody is interested. Not a nice thing to have been part of.
Could dig out the story if anybody is interested. Not a nice thing to have been part of.
I'm a Red Cross first aid trainer. About 12 months ago, one of my neighbours woke me up with her little 4 year old son. She had found him hanging by his neck in the frame of his bunk bed, I performed CPR for 20 minutes waiting for the ambulance. They continued working on him as they drove him to hospital but the poor little mite was dead on arrival. 
Whitester said:
And how are they supposed to breathe with no air? fktards
A side effect of chest compressions is that it also forces the rib cage up and down so still pushes some air in and out of the lungs, so doing CPR without M2M is still better than nothing.ktardsMy most recent first Aid course was taken by an ex Plod who'd done CPR many times at the scene of accidents. He said that there were a few times when M2M had been impossible, so in those instances chest compressions only was the only option.
ETA - I've been my workplace first aider for about 5 years, but never had to perform CPR...
The reason for no more M2M is that there is plenty of oxygen in a) the lungs and b) the blood. The most important thing for a person whose heart has stopped is to get it started again or pump the blood round manually (i.e through chest compressions). If you have an assistant to blow in the airway while you compress the chest, great. if not just do the chest.
I've done CPR on an elderly gent who died of a heart attack, although I think he was dead before I started.
The evidence has been around for quite a while that CPR only is better than mixed CPR and M2M. If you are doing CPR properly then you will drive the lungs enough to get plenty of air through, you'll probably break ribs as well. The only reason that CFR schemes still teach a mix is because so many people think that M2M is the important thing and people expect a mix - it is public perception rather than evidence that's been retaining M2M. While I've been a first responder the training has changed to increase the amount of CPR and decrease M2M, I'm going to be interested to see what the recommendation is at my next recertification.
The evidence has been around for quite a while that CPR only is better than mixed CPR and M2M. If you are doing CPR properly then you will drive the lungs enough to get plenty of air through, you'll probably break ribs as well. The only reason that CFR schemes still teach a mix is because so many people think that M2M is the important thing and people expect a mix - it is public perception rather than evidence that's been retaining M2M. While I've been a first responder the training has changed to increase the amount of CPR and decrease M2M, I'm going to be interested to see what the recommendation is at my next recertification.
Whitester said:
And how are they supposed to breathe with no air? fktards
At risk of a whoosh parrot moment, do you honestly think you know better than a group of experts on a pretty specialised subject?ktardsThis isn't particularly new. Police CPR training (which is targeted at a group less likely to panic than Joe Public) has suggested this for a year or two now - some forces, anyway. The chest compressions are supposed to generate sufficient air movement. But it does make sense for a simplified version to be recommended to the public. In a stressful and physically demanding situation it's certainly easier to remember to just do chest compressions than trying to remember the ratio of compressions to breaths, keeping the right tempo, generating enough force etc.
On topic, no, I consider myself lucky enough not to have had to do CPR. I know a lot of people that have and apparently the ribs breaking (and the change from hard to squidgey) is what surprised most of them.
I've done CPR, unfortunatly unsuccesfully, on a guy who collapsed of a heart attack in our warehouse at an old place of work. To make it worse when the paramedics turned up the defribulator on the ambulance wasn't working. I'm sure not the ambulance guys fault as that is one job I would hate to do, they were as upset as me.
Didn't feel very good about the whole episode then and still don't now 20 years on, felt useless, even though you have the paramedics telling you that everything was done right.
Didn't feel very good about the whole episode then and still don't now 20 years on, felt useless, even though you have the paramedics telling you that everything was done right.
Reposting this from a few years ago, so here goes a copy and paste!
Early last year coming back from a friend's gig, came across this Audi half stuck in a motorway barrier, it was proper pissing down with rain, I could have been home in 10mins, but my consciousness kicked in and I stopped, hazards on, out the door with hiviz (REALLY dont wanna be hit by a car...again), personal lighting (Yes, im a wierd guy, I carry emergency beacons on my person), and got my medkit out of the boot. Pretty much whole of the engine was missing from this Audi, driver was alert and oriented, told him not to move, called the 9's on my hands free while runningaround the car to check on the passenger. 70yoM, no pulse not breathing. st. Drag him out of the car (cut his seat belt out using leathermans, after smashing windscreen in with size 11 boot about 10 times), CPR in the cold wet motorway, covered in oil, while countless cars went by, no one stopping. Bib turn up 10mins later (roughly), one bib swaps with me every other minute while other checks safety sets up cones etc makes sure we dont get run over. 20 mins later (10 after the police arrive), which actually seemed like a life time, ambu turns up.
Pronouced dead at the scene half an hour later.
I'll still do it again without any hesitation.
Early last year coming back from a friend's gig, came across this Audi half stuck in a motorway barrier, it was proper pissing down with rain, I could have been home in 10mins, but my consciousness kicked in and I stopped, hazards on, out the door with hiviz (REALLY dont wanna be hit by a car...again), personal lighting (Yes, im a wierd guy, I carry emergency beacons on my person), and got my medkit out of the boot. Pretty much whole of the engine was missing from this Audi, driver was alert and oriented, told him not to move, called the 9's on my hands free while runningaround the car to check on the passenger. 70yoM, no pulse not breathing. s
t. Drag him out of the car (cut his seat belt out using leathermans, after smashing windscreen in with size 11 boot about 10 times), CPR in the cold wet motorway, covered in oil, while countless cars went by, no one stopping. Bib turn up 10mins later (roughly), one bib swaps with me every other minute while other checks safety sets up cones etc makes sure we dont get run over. 20 mins later (10 after the police arrive), which actually seemed like a life time, ambu turns up.Pronouced dead at the scene half an hour later.
I'll still do it again without any hesitation.
tenohfive said:
On topic, no, I consider myself lucky enough not to have had to do CPR. I know a lot of people that have and apparently the ribs breaking (and the change from hard to squidgey) is what surprised most of them.
My understanding (though I could be wrong) is that if you aren't pushing hard enough to break a rib or two then you are not doing enough to compress the heart anyways.... Broken ribs is a sign of poor hand placement, what is more likely is the cartilage that connects the ribs to the sternum has separated and giving the crunchy sound/sensation of broken ribs.
Only ever experienced it once on a rather elderly gentleman and it was like that when I took over from someone else...honest!!.
Only ever experienced it once on a rather elderly gentleman and it was like that when I took over from someone else...honest!!.
stu67 said:
I've done CPR, unfortunatly unsuccesfully, on a guy who collapsed of a heart attack in our warehouse at an old place of work. To make it worse when the paramedics turned up the defribulator on the ambulance wasn't working. I'm sure not the ambulance guys fault as that is one job I would hate to do, they were as upset as me.
Didn't feel very good about the whole episode then and still don't now 20 years on, felt useless, even though you have the paramedics telling you that everything was done right.
You shouldn't feel bad, you did what you could. At the first aid courses I've been on we're always told if you have to do CPR then the person is already dead and things can't get any worse, also only 2% of people who receive CPR actually survive or so we were told. Didn't feel very good about the whole episode then and still don't now 20 years on, felt useless, even though you have the paramedics telling you that everything was done right.
I spent 20 minutes doing CPR on my dad to no avail and was told later that unless he'd had his heart attack in a hospital and where they had the correct drugs to hand he wouldn't have stood a chance.
Edited by jagracer on Thursday 5th January 10:37
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