Goal of 10% body fat but worried about overall body weight
Discussion
Hi folks,
I've done a lot of googling of this issue and seem to be going round in circles a bit. I thought id see what the ever helpful PHers think.
About me - I'm in my mid 30's and naturally quite slim (ectomorph). I don't carry weight (fat) particularly well, as the majority of fat goes to my belly. I'm about 5'10" and currently 69kg, circa 16% body fat. I'm reasonably fit and healthy.
Goal / Aim - In a nutshell, I want to get my six pack back, and to have a lean, well toned body. I had a solid six pack until my mid 20's when my body fat started to increase and cover everything up. I know its not possible to chose where your body loses fat from and I understand that diet / fat % is key to revealing abs. I'm thinking that my body fat will have to come down to around 10% to achieve this?
What I'm doing - At the moment, I'm on a calorie deficit of around 500 a day (so eating 1800 - 1900). I've cut right back on alcohol and junk and try to eat reasonably well. I'm lifting quite heavy weights 4 or 5 times a week. I only do very light cardio as I cycle a few miles to work and back (weather dependant).
Results so far - After 4 weeks I'm seeing modest but reasonable results. I've lost 2.1 kg, 1.3kg of which is fat (according to my scales). This suggests that just over 60% of weight reduction is fat loss, which I'm happy with (assuming my scales are remotely accurate). I'm feeling much better and getting noticeably stronger. I'm much more able to see through a tough workout than just a few weeks ago. I still have fat to lose of course, but I feel I'm on the right track (to a point - see below).
So whats the problem? - Well, if I carry on losing weight, assuming the same fat loss percentage, I'll be less than 60kg / 9.5 stone before I hit my target of 10% fat. This, I feel, is too light for me and I could end up looking scrawny, despite the heavy lifting. I think a weight in the region of 10.5 to 11 stone would be preferable, so in the long run I would want to achieve this, in addition to my 10% target fat.
As I understand things, its not really possible to put on muscle whilst losing fat. So, how do I go about achieving my goal? I'm currently thinking of aiming primarily for my 10% fat target, whilst doing all I can to preserve muscle (any tips on this?). If I do this, how realistic would it be to bulk up again by a stone or so, without putting the fat back on?
I'm sorry if this is really basic stuff or if I'm being delusional. Any help / guidance would be much appreciated.
I've done a lot of googling of this issue and seem to be going round in circles a bit. I thought id see what the ever helpful PHers think.
About me - I'm in my mid 30's and naturally quite slim (ectomorph). I don't carry weight (fat) particularly well, as the majority of fat goes to my belly. I'm about 5'10" and currently 69kg, circa 16% body fat. I'm reasonably fit and healthy.
Goal / Aim - In a nutshell, I want to get my six pack back, and to have a lean, well toned body. I had a solid six pack until my mid 20's when my body fat started to increase and cover everything up. I know its not possible to chose where your body loses fat from and I understand that diet / fat % is key to revealing abs. I'm thinking that my body fat will have to come down to around 10% to achieve this?
What I'm doing - At the moment, I'm on a calorie deficit of around 500 a day (so eating 1800 - 1900). I've cut right back on alcohol and junk and try to eat reasonably well. I'm lifting quite heavy weights 4 or 5 times a week. I only do very light cardio as I cycle a few miles to work and back (weather dependant).
Results so far - After 4 weeks I'm seeing modest but reasonable results. I've lost 2.1 kg, 1.3kg of which is fat (according to my scales). This suggests that just over 60% of weight reduction is fat loss, which I'm happy with (assuming my scales are remotely accurate). I'm feeling much better and getting noticeably stronger. I'm much more able to see through a tough workout than just a few weeks ago. I still have fat to lose of course, but I feel I'm on the right track (to a point - see below).
So whats the problem? - Well, if I carry on losing weight, assuming the same fat loss percentage, I'll be less than 60kg / 9.5 stone before I hit my target of 10% fat. This, I feel, is too light for me and I could end up looking scrawny, despite the heavy lifting. I think a weight in the region of 10.5 to 11 stone would be preferable, so in the long run I would want to achieve this, in addition to my 10% target fat.
As I understand things, its not really possible to put on muscle whilst losing fat. So, how do I go about achieving my goal? I'm currently thinking of aiming primarily for my 10% fat target, whilst doing all I can to preserve muscle (any tips on this?). If I do this, how realistic would it be to bulk up again by a stone or so, without putting the fat back on?
I'm sorry if this is really basic stuff or if I'm being delusional. Any help / guidance would be much appreciated.
Watching this topic with interest as I have a similar problem.
5ft8' - 10st 10lb - regular gym goer for last 10 years at least
small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
struggle to put on weight and any weight i do gain goes on stomach and face so unless I slim down to silly levels and look like Bobby Sands I always have the same probs..
5ft8' - 10st 10lb - regular gym goer for last 10 years at least
small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
struggle to put on weight and any weight i do gain goes on stomach and face so unless I slim down to silly levels and look like Bobby Sands I always have the same probs..
I think you should probably look a bit more into your diet, take a look here it has plenty of information for hardgainers.
www.skinnybulkup.com
www.skinnybulkup.com
What your doing now is what bodybuilders do on a cut. But the big difference is that you have not built up any real amount of muscle to start with. So to go down to 10% bodyfat as you are currently will result in a medium to strong wind being able to knock you over.
A calorie deficit diet for you is not the way to go, as you are breaking down the muscle in the gym by lifting the heavy weights but are not eating enough to repair/build them.
You need to eat more a lot more, but you must eat the right foods ie. low fat, high protein with just enough carbs to power your workout, and keep on lifting the big weights. As your metabalism will be higher for up to 2 days after lifting to reapir itself. Any ab work you do, make sure most of it is weighted. Yes I know the best way to reveal abs is a low bodyfat but you can also build them up a little bit as well.
My mom, dad and sister are all over wieght as is most of my family, I'm 33 now and have always lifted heavy and eaten a high protein diet, and despite drinking more than I should I have never really carried much fat. This I put down the weights and diet.
Good luck anyway
A calorie deficit diet for you is not the way to go, as you are breaking down the muscle in the gym by lifting the heavy weights but are not eating enough to repair/build them.
You need to eat more a lot more, but you must eat the right foods ie. low fat, high protein with just enough carbs to power your workout, and keep on lifting the big weights. As your metabalism will be higher for up to 2 days after lifting to reapir itself. Any ab work you do, make sure most of it is weighted. Yes I know the best way to reveal abs is a low bodyfat but you can also build them up a little bit as well.
My mom, dad and sister are all over wieght as is most of my family, I'm 33 now and have always lifted heavy and eaten a high protein diet, and despite drinking more than I should I have never really carried much fat. This I put down the weights and diet.
Good luck anyway
Edited by busso on Tuesday 10th April 10:28
I was in a similar position but with bigger numbers - 1st Jan 2011 I was 21 stone but my BF % was crazy high. In my mind I had always told myself that I was a 17stone, 6ft6, ripped to the bone man....with a few stone of fat to shift. But when I did the numbers and worked out my lean weight if I ran down to 10% BF I realised I was about 14stone, if that (which seemed VERY light for someone tall and large framed) My aim was (is) to be between 15-16 stone and ripped.....but over the last year and half I just worried about the fat loss and MAINTAINING the muscle. Dropping fat on a low cal diet is easy...putting ON muscle at the same time is NOT. So I just dropped my weight and kept my lean weight at the same point (within a 1 lb or 2) - I am now at 15st8lb which is where I'd want to be....but % still med/high teens so I still have to go lower and into "too light territory".
One option would be to increase the cals and see if I could slowly build muscle/drop BF and stay this overall weight.....but it's far faster and more effecient for me to just go down another stone then come back up lean.
To see a good example check out early pics of John Stone (google) He went WAY to low on overall body weight in his early days but came back up looking great.
One option would be to increase the cals and see if I could slowly build muscle/drop BF and stay this overall weight.....but it's far faster and more effecient for me to just go down another stone then come back up lean.
To see a good example check out early pics of John Stone (google) He went WAY to low on overall body weight in his early days but came back up looking great.
From my research, you're definitely doing the right thing. Moderate calorie deficit + weights + cardio. The trick with the diet, as busso says, is high protein, low to medium carbs.
You ought to diarise your food intake. Get on myfitnesspal.com and make sure you are eating enough. My problem was that I started losing then it plateaued because I was only eating about 1200 calories a day! I've increased it back to 2000 (including exercise calories lost) and I haven't started getting fat again. In fact, I think I'm slightly leaner still.
The trick for you is that you can go one of two directions:
1) bulk up a bit more then cut so eat 3000 calories and really attempt to build up the muscle first
2) focus on getting lean and do "whatever you can" with the weights
As your original intention was to see your six pack again, I'd focus on doing (2) which means eating your daily intake requirements with a minor calorie deficit which should result in a high metabolism being maintained and fat lost.
That's the theory and I'm half way there so it might be bunkum and the secret is eating doner kebabs with double chilli sauce...
You ought to diarise your food intake. Get on myfitnesspal.com and make sure you are eating enough. My problem was that I started losing then it plateaued because I was only eating about 1200 calories a day! I've increased it back to 2000 (including exercise calories lost) and I haven't started getting fat again. In fact, I think I'm slightly leaner still.
The trick for you is that you can go one of two directions:
1) bulk up a bit more then cut so eat 3000 calories and really attempt to build up the muscle first
2) focus on getting lean and do "whatever you can" with the weights
As your original intention was to see your six pack again, I'd focus on doing (2) which means eating your daily intake requirements with a minor calorie deficit which should result in a high metabolism being maintained and fat lost.
That's the theory and I'm half way there so it might be bunkum and the secret is eating doner kebabs with double chilli sauce...
Thanks for the info guys. Interesting how opinion differs between just a few posts.
Out of interest, what are peoples thoughts on heavy weight training every other day, with a calorie surplus during 'on' days and a defect on 'off' days? Obviously the make up of the calories would need to be right.
Out of interest, what are peoples thoughts on heavy weight training every other day, with a calorie surplus during 'on' days and a defect on 'off' days? Obviously the make up of the calories would need to be right.
Heathwood said:
Results so far - After 4 weeks I'm seeing modest but reasonable results. I've lost 2.1 kg, 1.3kg of which is fat (according to my scales). This suggests that just over 60% of weight reduction is fat loss, which I'm happy with (assuming my scales are remotely accurate). I'm feeling much better and getting noticeably stronger. I'm much more able to see through a tough workout than just a few weeks ago. I still have fat to lose of course, but I feel I'm on the right track (to a point - see below).
IMO four weeks isn't really long enough to determine how well things are or aren't going. BF% scales are notoriously inconsistent and probably best to ignore, unless you can be confident you measure at the same time, same day, same hydration level, same diet, same temperature, etc. for every measurement.You appear to be going in the right direction so rather than start switching things about, continue with what's PROVEN to be successful for you over the last four weeks, until it stops working.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
1974nc said:
5ft8' - 10st 10lb - regular gym goer for last 10 years at least
small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
Did at any point during those ten years you think you might be doing something wrong? 150lbs @ 5'8" and not even close to being lean by the sounds of things? Those stats sound like someone who doesn't even lift.small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
HonestIago said:
1974nc said:
5ft8' - 10st 10lb - regular gym goer for last 10 years at least
small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
Did at any point during those ten years you think you might be doing something wrong? 150lbs @ 5'8" and not even close to being lean by the sounds of things? Those stats sound like someone who doesn't even lift.small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
No doubt you look like a men's health cover model and bench 200kg
1974nc said:
HonestIago said:
1974nc said:
5ft8' - 10st 10lb - regular gym goer for last 10 years at least
small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
Did at any point during those ten years you think you might be doing something wrong? 150lbs @ 5'8" and not even close to being lean by the sounds of things? Those stats sound like someone who doesn't even lift.small layer of fat on stomach but thin legs
No doubt you look like a men's health cover model and bench 200kg
How old are you? 120kg press is quite good as a percentage of bodyweight.
I'm a hardgainer and up to being 30 didn't even have to work out for abs but time changes and now I need to obviously work harder and diet better.
Although I have just taken up boxing and that's a different workout again.
I'm a hardgainer and up to being 30 didn't even have to work out for abs but time changes and now I need to obviously work harder and diet better.
Although I have just taken up boxing and that's a different workout again.
1974nc said:
How old are you? 120kg press is quite good as a percentage of bodyweight.
I'm a hardgainer and up to being 30 didn't even have to work out for abs but time changes and now I need to obviously work harder and diet better.
Although I have just taken up boxing and that's a different workout again.
Just turned 22. There's no such thing as hardgainers, only people who don't eat enough. Try tracking your cals/macros its the only way to know for sure, you're just robbing yourself of gains by not eating enough. No point trying to diet down for abs IMO...what weight would you be then? 9 stone?I'm a hardgainer and up to being 30 didn't even have to work out for abs but time changes and now I need to obviously work harder and diet better.
Although I have just taken up boxing and that's a different workout again.
HonestIago said:
There's no such thing as hardgainers, only people who don't eat enough. Try tracking your cals/macros its the only way to know for sure, you're just robbing yourself of gains by not eating enough. No point trying to diet down for abs IMO...what weight would you be then? 9 stone?
Gotta agree with the above. Abs on a skinny guy are like big boobs on a fat chick.Im 37 nearly 38 with partner and kids hence I have to eat the dinner that SWMBO makes for us.
Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
1974nc said:
Im 37 nearly 38 with partner and kids hence I have to eat the dinner that SWMBO makes for us.
Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
I don't think loosing weight to try to gain a 6pack is the way to go TBH. If you get a bit of size on your abs they can show through a higher body fat, if that's your aim, and you'll be bigger in general too. Add in a bit of extra food here and there and train a bit heavier.Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
1974nc said:
Im 37 nearly 38 with partner and kids hence I have to eat the dinner that SWMBO makes for us.
Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
So when it comes to bodyfat management there are two key items;Daytime not as bad but I have noticed that I seem to retain stomach fat nowadays.
First started at gym when I was 16 and had great gains within a few months. If id kept it up no doubt I'd have looked great, sadly alcohol and nightclubs proved a bigger lure.
Now i have a sales job which means I'm driving most of the day and 1hr gym time is just making up for being sedentary all day.
- Diet
- Exercise
If diet is good, exercise can be less however, if diet isn't good then exercise needs to be considerably more.
However the equation isn't 50% diet/50% exercise, its more like 80% diet, 20% exercise so diet is far, far more important than exercise compared like-for-like however exercise and diet are a synergy and are 10 times more effective combined.
Exercise is also very important if you don't want to lose all of your body fat and find yourself looking like a skinny 10st wussy. Diet will also only get you so far and then you'll need exercise to get below say 12% body fat (for most people).
didelydoo said:
I don't think loosing weight to try to gain a 6pack is the way to go TBH. If you get a bit of size on your abs they can show through a higher body fat, if that's your aim, and you'll be bigger in general too. Add in a bit of extra food here and there and train a bit heavier.
Cheers, will alter workouts to suit.Had a few conflicting opinions about training for the boxing though as some say don't go too heavy on weights as it will slow and reduce mobility. Others say just carry on as normal.
1974nc said:
didelydoo said:
I don't think loosing weight to try to gain a 6pack is the way to go TBH. If you get a bit of size on your abs they can show through a higher body fat, if that's your aim, and you'll be bigger in general too. Add in a bit of extra food here and there and train a bit heavier.
Cheers, will alter workouts to suit.Had a few conflicting opinions about training for the boxing though as some say don't go too heavy on weights as it will slow and reduce mobility. Others say just carry on as normal.
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