Here's a pic of me, some advice needed..
Discussion
Basically you need to get some proper weight training in, and ensure you are eating enough of the right stuff (1500 calories a day won't be enough if you want to build some size). Diet wise you want to be looking at more like 2500 calories, but not using chocolate and McDonalds to get there, without going into too much detail lean meats, dairy, unrefined carbs etc.
Training wise I would focus more around a decent weight training program rather than following the published regimes like Insanity. It's not hard to see results if you train well, particulalrly when your starting from scratch in terms of weight training.
Despite stronglifts being a published program it is a good one for beginners (as well as experinced lifters looking to make things simple again) to get some good strength and a good base. It consists of 5 x 5 squats, deadlifts, bench press, bent over row and military press with the weight progressing by a small amount once 5 x 5 is managed. With this you will get stronger, build muscle and get a good base if you want to go down other more specific routes of training like bodybuilder style, or strongman for example. "Toning" by the way is a frustrating term. How big you get is not really defined by how many sets or reps you do, or what type of training, but much more to do with diet and genetics. If you don't want to gain much size, don't eat too much. Simple.
That's fairly breif and basic, but hope it points you in a good direction. Just ask if you want more/better detail.
.
ETA some buts I missed...
Results wise it's impossible to say. It depends on how well you eat, train and on your genetics. Work hard and eat well and 4-6 weeks is a rough estimate I would say you should start seeing results physically.
Creatine is a useful tool for training, giving you the ability to get that little bit extra out of a set or session. It's not a miracle worker and doesn't make you bigger or more toned. I would suggest not starting with it, but if after 6 months you still fancy it, give it a go. This way you will notice the difference it makes, rather than just seeing it as th norm. Note that some people see no real benefit from creatine, where as others do - as with all fitness stuff it's very individual.
ETA one more time...
Looking at your photos I would say you are somewhere in the middle of 13% and 20% body fat. You're definatly not 30%, but 13% looks a bits generous
Training wise I would focus more around a decent weight training program rather than following the published regimes like Insanity. It's not hard to see results if you train well, particulalrly when your starting from scratch in terms of weight training.
Despite stronglifts being a published program it is a good one for beginners (as well as experinced lifters looking to make things simple again) to get some good strength and a good base. It consists of 5 x 5 squats, deadlifts, bench press, bent over row and military press with the weight progressing by a small amount once 5 x 5 is managed. With this you will get stronger, build muscle and get a good base if you want to go down other more specific routes of training like bodybuilder style, or strongman for example. "Toning" by the way is a frustrating term. How big you get is not really defined by how many sets or reps you do, or what type of training, but much more to do with diet and genetics. If you don't want to gain much size, don't eat too much. Simple.
That's fairly breif and basic, but hope it points you in a good direction. Just ask if you want more/better detail.
.ETA some buts I missed...
Results wise it's impossible to say. It depends on how well you eat, train and on your genetics. Work hard and eat well and 4-6 weeks is a rough estimate I would say you should start seeing results physically.
Creatine is a useful tool for training, giving you the ability to get that little bit extra out of a set or session. It's not a miracle worker and doesn't make you bigger or more toned. I would suggest not starting with it, but if after 6 months you still fancy it, give it a go. This way you will notice the difference it makes, rather than just seeing it as th norm. Note that some people see no real benefit from creatine, where as others do - as with all fitness stuff it's very individual.
ETA one more time...
Looking at your photos I would say you are somewhere in the middle of 13% and 20% body fat. You're definatly not 30%, but 13% looks a bits generous
Edited by balders118 on Friday 28th September 18:07
I agree with the above.
You've got two choices from here.
-You can either focus on bulking = eat more, get fat but build muscle, lifting heavy. I think general consensus is for a beginner to focus on compound exercises eg deads, squats, bench, OHP, rows to build general strength then start to use other exercises to fine tune (I'm no expert on strength work/bodybuilding)
-Lean out, but without any real muscle size you may look a bit skinny like a male fashion model = increase your workload/exercise
Assuming you really are eating 1500 calories a day (only you will know that if you're really measuring everything accurately), and have been eating 1500 for a while and are experiencing a plateau, you may want to take a diet break and aim for 2000 a day for two weeks. Read up on adaptive thermogenesis.
You've got two choices from here.
-You can either focus on bulking = eat more, get fat but build muscle, lifting heavy. I think general consensus is for a beginner to focus on compound exercises eg deads, squats, bench, OHP, rows to build general strength then start to use other exercises to fine tune (I'm no expert on strength work/bodybuilding)
-Lean out, but without any real muscle size you may look a bit skinny like a male fashion model = increase your workload/exercise
Assuming you really are eating 1500 calories a day (only you will know that if you're really measuring everything accurately), and have been eating 1500 for a while and are experiencing a plateau, you may want to take a diet break and aim for 2000 a day for two weeks. Read up on adaptive thermogenesis.
Edited by Hoofy on Friday 28th September 18:41
NeMiSiS said:
Some advice needed..
....Don't listen to strangers who you don't know on a Car internet bulletin board site.
Wow wow wow wow wow....Don't listen to strangers who you don't know on a Car internet bulletin board site.
Little un called for! Despite it being a car website, there are plenty of keen, knowlidgable amatuers and experienced professionals (myself included) on this website that can give far far better advice that your standard personal trainer at the local gym.
Forums are a great place to discuss training, you just need to know who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't as obvuiusly there will be some spouting (incorrect) bulls
t.NeMiSiS said:
balders118 said:
Wow wow wow wow wow
Little un called for! Despite it being a car website, there are plenty of keen, knowlidgable amatuers and experienced professionals (myself included) on this website that can give far far better advice that your standard personal trainer at the local gym.
Forums are a great place to discuss training, you just need to know who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't as obvuiusly there will be some spouting (incorrect) bullst.
I have given sound advice to the OP.Little un called for! Despite it being a car website, there are plenty of keen, knowlidgable amatuers and experienced professionals (myself included) on this website that can give far far better advice that your standard personal trainer at the local gym.
Forums are a great place to discuss training, you just need to know who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't as obvuiusly there will be some spouting (incorrect) bulls
t.Stay away from blokes in the Gym wearing Ten Pin Bowling shoes who have MensHealth mags on view in their gym bags.
NeMiSiS said:
balders118 said:
Wow wow wow wow wow
Little un called for! Despite it being a car website, there are plenty of keen, knowlidgable amatuers and experienced professionals (myself included) on this website that can give far far better advice that your standard personal trainer at the local gym.
Forums are a great place to discuss training, you just need to know who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't as obvuiusly there will be some spouting (incorrect) bullst.
I have given sound advice to the OP.Little un called for! Despite it being a car website, there are plenty of keen, knowlidgable amatuers and experienced professionals (myself included) on this website that can give far far better advice that your standard personal trainer at the local gym.
Forums are a great place to discuss training, you just need to know who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't as obvuiusly there will be some spouting (incorrect) bulls
t.OP you have a good starting point and just need to build on it, Balders is a qualified strength and fitness coach and his advice is well worth listening to.
I would recommend joining the PH transformation thread in the stickies at the top of the forum, you will get good advice on diet and exercise on there.
Good luck
I would recommend joining the PH transformation thread in the stickies at the top of the forum, you will get good advice on diet and exercise on there.
Good luck
Edited by BenM77 on Friday 28th September 21:09
1500 calories seems extremely restrained for someone of your height & gender, particularly with 5 hours of training a week. If you want to put on muscle then add about 250-300g of meat to your diet, cut out the cardio and spend 3 or 4 sessions per week doing weights.
A very simple way to make progress is to take a basic program with full-body movements and add weight/reps every session.
Something like:
Warm-up & Dynamic Stretching (shoulder swings, body-weight squats etc.)
Squat Variation: 3 sets, 4-6 reps, 2.5 minutes rest. The importance is keeping your head and back up while sitting deeply into the squat. A lot of people find front-squats more helpful than back-squats once they overcome the initial awkwardness of the grip.
Overhead-Press: 3 Sets, 4-6 reps, 2.5 minutes rest. Keep your core firm and to stop yourself from bending backwards to lift the weight.
Chinups: 4 sets, 4-6 reps, 2 minutes rest. Explode up, hold at the top and come down over 3 seconds. If you can complete the reps then add a few more reps, once you can do 4 sets of 8-10 then add some weight and carry on.
Finisher:
3 burpees
5 press-ups
7 crunches
9 squats
Complete this as many times as you can in 3 minutes.
Record everything you do and stick religiously to the rest periods. The lifts aren't what's important; anything compound will do. What makes progress in weight training is.. making progress. If you're going into the gym and sitting down chatting for 10 minutes between sets then you're going to get on a whole lot slower than if you keep everything equal and shift the weights up by 2.5kgs every time you enter the gym. If you perform your workouts with intensity you'll get as much if not more cardio than you're getting now out of it.
Get in some carbohydrate and protein after your work-out and generally up your calorie & protein intake, don't worry about being so terrified of fat.
A very simple way to make progress is to take a basic program with full-body movements and add weight/reps every session.
Something like:
Warm-up & Dynamic Stretching (shoulder swings, body-weight squats etc.)
Squat Variation: 3 sets, 4-6 reps, 2.5 minutes rest. The importance is keeping your head and back up while sitting deeply into the squat. A lot of people find front-squats more helpful than back-squats once they overcome the initial awkwardness of the grip.
Overhead-Press: 3 Sets, 4-6 reps, 2.5 minutes rest. Keep your core firm and to stop yourself from bending backwards to lift the weight.
Chinups: 4 sets, 4-6 reps, 2 minutes rest. Explode up, hold at the top and come down over 3 seconds. If you can complete the reps then add a few more reps, once you can do 4 sets of 8-10 then add some weight and carry on.
Finisher:
3 burpees
5 press-ups
7 crunches
9 squats
Complete this as many times as you can in 3 minutes.
Record everything you do and stick religiously to the rest periods. The lifts aren't what's important; anything compound will do. What makes progress in weight training is.. making progress. If you're going into the gym and sitting down chatting for 10 minutes between sets then you're going to get on a whole lot slower than if you keep everything equal and shift the weights up by 2.5kgs every time you enter the gym. If you perform your workouts with intensity you'll get as much if not more cardio than you're getting now out of it.
Get in some carbohydrate and protein after your work-out and generally up your calorie & protein intake, don't worry about being so terrified of fat.
All,
Thanks for your mostly helpful responses. Much appreciated. Apologies for the delay in response.
Anyhow, I've changed my diet. 1500 calories was a rough daily intake, some days higher, some lower. I think the biggest issue I had with this was I constantly felt hungry - which in turn then made me binge once in a while or head to the work's vending machines, essentially defeating and undoing the object of what I was aiming to do.
I've looked up foods consisting of unrefined carbs. So now I'm eating oat porridge, the stuff in pots (lazy, I know), around 200 K each, with some honey. I'm also eating 2-3 egg omelettes regularly, with around a third of a red pepper, handful of grated cheese and some diced chorizo added.
I've also bought chicken fillets with skin on and packets of cous cous to have as a meal.
A rough example of the past 2 days diet:
Pot of porridge with honey
2-3 egg omelette, as described above
2 bananas
1 apple
1 high fibre cereal bar
1 main meal, chill con carne, or chicken breast with cous cous, etc
I spread this out throughout the day. As I've said, I work nights and I usually head to the gym around 14:00, eating a banana and the porridge before I go.
I've also started to use the suggested weight routine, in addition to the routine I was doing described early, so I'm at the gym a fair bit longer and definitely feeling as though I've worked harder. I definitely feel as though I've worked hard when I've done the weights too. I do this at the start of the routine and I'm sweating within minutes.
I'm genuinely struggling with the squats and bench presses, the bar just seems to long and awkward, I'm finding it hard even with 15 kg! I go to the gym on my own so I've not got anyone to help with that lifting etc. So I'm going to try standing military presses instead.
I'm doing barbell rows and deadlifts of 25 KG. I know it's not a lot, but it's a start.
Because I'm struggling with the squats and bench presses I've started using some the weight machines. I'll post back with what I'm using, reps and weights etc.
I'll start to post on the 'what workout have you done today' and 'transformation' threads.
I kicked off this routine Saturday - my weight is now 11st 5. I don't know if they're related!
Thanks again.
Thanks for your mostly helpful responses. Much appreciated. Apologies for the delay in response.
Anyhow, I've changed my diet. 1500 calories was a rough daily intake, some days higher, some lower. I think the biggest issue I had with this was I constantly felt hungry - which in turn then made me binge once in a while or head to the work's vending machines, essentially defeating and undoing the object of what I was aiming to do.
I've looked up foods consisting of unrefined carbs. So now I'm eating oat porridge, the stuff in pots (lazy, I know), around 200 K each, with some honey. I'm also eating 2-3 egg omelettes regularly, with around a third of a red pepper, handful of grated cheese and some diced chorizo added.
I've also bought chicken fillets with skin on and packets of cous cous to have as a meal.
A rough example of the past 2 days diet:
Pot of porridge with honey
2-3 egg omelette, as described above
2 bananas
1 apple
1 high fibre cereal bar
1 main meal, chill con carne, or chicken breast with cous cous, etc
I spread this out throughout the day. As I've said, I work nights and I usually head to the gym around 14:00, eating a banana and the porridge before I go.
I've also started to use the suggested weight routine, in addition to the routine I was doing described early, so I'm at the gym a fair bit longer and definitely feeling as though I've worked harder. I definitely feel as though I've worked hard when I've done the weights too. I do this at the start of the routine and I'm sweating within minutes.
I'm genuinely struggling with the squats and bench presses, the bar just seems to long and awkward, I'm finding it hard even with 15 kg! I go to the gym on my own so I've not got anyone to help with that lifting etc. So I'm going to try standing military presses instead.
I'm doing barbell rows and deadlifts of 25 KG. I know it's not a lot, but it's a start.
Because I'm struggling with the squats and bench presses I've started using some the weight machines. I'll post back with what I'm using, reps and weights etc.
I'll start to post on the 'what workout have you done today' and 'transformation' threads.
I kicked off this routine Saturday - my weight is now 11st 5. I don't know if they're related!
Thanks again.
To tone up and build some muscle you will have to start hammering the weights and eating more. I'm 5'11" and normally fluctuate between 85-90 kg at around 15% body fat. 5 years ago I weighed 69kg.
My routine is as follows:
All sets doing 8-12 reps
Day 1:
4 sets of dips
3 sets incline dumbbell press
3 sets flat barbell press
3 sets seated shoulder press if I'm feeling up to it
4 sets tri push down
Day 2:
4 sets pull ups (assisted if not able to complete)
3 sets one arm dumbbell row (each side)
3 sets Seated cable row (triangular grip)
3 sets Upright cable row
3 sets EZ bar curls
Day 3:
Legs (squats/press machine)
Various ab exercises
I cycle twice a week and go to circuits twice a week. Normally get out for a run once a week as well.
Eat plenty of healthy food, complex carbs, salad, fresh meat (chicken is great), baked beans, jacket potatoes etc.
I also use maxi muscle Cyclone when on the weights as I find it definitely helps with muscle recovery and growth.
Hope this helps, there are plenty of knowledgable folk on here, what I do might not stand up to scrutiny of some people but it works for me.
My routine is as follows:
All sets doing 8-12 reps
Day 1:
4 sets of dips
3 sets incline dumbbell press
3 sets flat barbell press
3 sets seated shoulder press if I'm feeling up to it
4 sets tri push down
Day 2:
4 sets pull ups (assisted if not able to complete)
3 sets one arm dumbbell row (each side)
3 sets Seated cable row (triangular grip)
3 sets Upright cable row
3 sets EZ bar curls
Day 3:
Legs (squats/press machine)
Various ab exercises
I cycle twice a week and go to circuits twice a week. Normally get out for a run once a week as well.
Eat plenty of healthy food, complex carbs, salad, fresh meat (chicken is great), baked beans, jacket potatoes etc.
I also use maxi muscle Cyclone when on the weights as I find it definitely helps with muscle recovery and growth.
Hope this helps, there are plenty of knowledgable folk on here, what I do might not stand up to scrutiny of some people but it works for me.
Guys
Apologies, I've probably not made myself clear. I've added to the diet of 1500 calories a day, at least a 3 egg omelette - which is around 500 cal. plus oat porridge of 200 cal. I'll keep hunting out food which doesn't contain refined carbs, or is full or protein.
Even after a few days of adding to my diet I do feel better. Certainly as though I've more energy. And definitely good when I've left the gym.
I've even made a bit of progress in terms of what I can lift..
Today:
Free weight..
7x5 deadlift - 30 kg
6x5 low barbell row - 30kg
3x5 overhead press - 20kg
5x5 bicep curls - 25kg
Machine..
6x5 low row - 55kg
6x5 arm extension - 35 kg
4x5 upper back - 45 kg
I don't know what the names of the machines are, I've just noted the descriptions of each item.
5 minutes of abs work
5 minutes of kettle bell raises and lunges, 20 kg or 2x16 kg for lunges
2x5 minutes on the rower - 150 calories in total
10 minutes of swimming
The abs bench (don't know the correct name) where you lie back at an angle and hook your feet under, well 60-70 reps on there is no problem. A personal trainer I used for 1 session said I've very strong abs, it's just that you can't see them.
Anyhow, thanks again, will keep taking the advice.
Apologies, I've probably not made myself clear. I've added to the diet of 1500 calories a day, at least a 3 egg omelette - which is around 500 cal. plus oat porridge of 200 cal. I'll keep hunting out food which doesn't contain refined carbs, or is full or protein.
Even after a few days of adding to my diet I do feel better. Certainly as though I've more energy. And definitely good when I've left the gym.
I've even made a bit of progress in terms of what I can lift..
Today:
Free weight..
7x5 deadlift - 30 kg
6x5 low barbell row - 30kg
3x5 overhead press - 20kg
5x5 bicep curls - 25kg
Machine..
6x5 low row - 55kg
6x5 arm extension - 35 kg
4x5 upper back - 45 kg
I don't know what the names of the machines are, I've just noted the descriptions of each item.
5 minutes of abs work
5 minutes of kettle bell raises and lunges, 20 kg or 2x16 kg for lunges
2x5 minutes on the rower - 150 calories in total
10 minutes of swimming
The abs bench (don't know the correct name) where you lie back at an angle and hook your feet under, well 60-70 reps on there is no problem. A personal trainer I used for 1 session said I've very strong abs, it's just that you can't see them.
Anyhow, thanks again, will keep taking the advice.
Just a quick update. I've been to the gym almost daily since my original post. I've followed the stronglifts program and I've made massive progress in terms of what I'm lifting versus the start. I'm deadlifting and low rowing 50KG now - not exaxctly enourmous but it's a start.
According to the gym scales I'm 25 per cent body fat. I just can't believe that.
I'm eating a lot more, which has definitely improved my energy levels, I feel less lethargic and my overall mood is better. That said I'm still struggling to hit 2.5K calories a day. But what I am eating is the right kind of stuff as far as I'm aware. Wholemeal pasta with tomato sauce, wholemeal bread, couscous, big helpings of oat porridge with bananas, 3 egg omelettes with cheese, ham and red pepper, chickwn breast fillets etc.
According to the gym scales I'm 25 per cent body fat. I just can't believe that.
I'm eating a lot more, which has definitely improved my energy levels, I feel less lethargic and my overall mood is better. That said I'm still struggling to hit 2.5K calories a day. But what I am eating is the right kind of stuff as far as I'm aware. Wholemeal pasta with tomato sauce, wholemeal bread, couscous, big helpings of oat porridge with bananas, 3 egg omelettes with cheese, ham and red pepper, chickwn breast fillets etc.
My advise to you would be to spend some time watching free weights exercises on youtube (there is some good stuff in with all the crap) If you have not used free weights before they take some getting used to (balancing etc) esp compared to the resistance machines. Try to plan a week spending different days focusing on different muscle groups (today was my chest day for example) with a bit of cardio work thrown in there. When you get home from the gym esp after doing some weights try to eat some protein to encourage hypertrophy.
My advise to you would be to spend some time watching free weights exercises on youtube (there is some good stuff in with all the crap) If you have not used free weights before they take some getting used to (balancing etc) esp compared to the resistance machines. Try to plan a week spending different days focusing on different muscle groups (today was my chest day for example) with a bit of cardio work thrown in there. When you get home from the gym esp after doing some weights try to eat some protein to encourage hypertrophy.
My advise to you would be to spend some time watching free weights exercises on youtube (there is some good stuff in with all the crap) If you have not used free weights before they take some getting used to (balancing etc) esp compared to the resistance machines. Try to plan a week spending different days focusing on different muscle groups (today was my chest day for example) with a bit of cardio work thrown in there. When you get home from the gym esp after doing some weights try to eat some protein to encourage hypertrophy.
Stick with Stronglifts as long as you can keep adding weight each set of lifts and you won't go far wrong.
All of the big three/four (deadlift, bench, overhead press, squat) beginner programs are very similar in approach and will give you good results to start with. You need to be eating plenty to keep adding weight each time you lift as well, and get plenty of rest, it starts to get hard very quickly!
Switch to something like Wendler's 5/3/1 with the boring but big accessory work when you get stuck with adding plate with Stronglifts if you want to get bigger.
All of the big three/four (deadlift, bench, overhead press, squat) beginner programs are very similar in approach and will give you good results to start with. You need to be eating plenty to keep adding weight each time you lift as well, and get plenty of rest, it starts to get hard very quickly!
Switch to something like Wendler's 5/3/1 with the boring but big accessory work when you get stuck with adding plate with Stronglifts if you want to get bigger.
thenortherner said:
Would something like P90x or Insanity work be ideal for me?
Dunno about ideal but it has worked well for me so dont dismiss it. I have just completed the insanity course. Worked well for me as I did not have to worry about dragging myself off to the gym so it was easy to fit in. Having someone there telling me what exercises to do was good to as I was hopeless when I used to go to the gym and would fall into the same routine every time I went
I did not stick to the diet plan that comes with it which probably would have made results better, no use of protein shakes or anything.
My diet compared to most people on here is probably bloody awful but at a guess is less than 2500cal a day.
In the 2 months of the workout I have lost 16lbs , 6 inches off my waist so can now see some definition. I have no other measurements but shirts are a bit tighter around the pecs and shoulders now and I have some pairs of boxers that I cant even get on any more as they wont go over my thighs and my fitness has increased dramatically.
Each to their own and everything but being in the gym doing weights bores me to tears and you don't have to use weights to build muscle.
If you are more into building the muscle than fitness then P90X looks like it may be better from the adverts I have seen.
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