Building muscle - Optimum number of reps/sets?

[MitchT]

What's the optimum number of reps and sets to do on each machine at the gym to build muscle? I know that fewer reps but with more weight equals bigger muscles, but what's the absolute optimum? And how many sets of reps should you do on each machine before moving on to the next one?

ETA: And what's the optimum number of times per week to actually go to the gym?

Edited by MitchT on Monday 10th December 13:23

[HonestIago]

It doesn't matter. Lots of volume = bigger muscles. Training low reps will get you stronger and bigger. Training higher reps (e.g. 20-30) with intensity will also make you stronger and bigger. It's very simple really. I do both to varying degrees.

[MitchT]

What would you call low reps though? I currently do three sets of 12 on each machine. And how many times a week should I go? I'm aiming to get to the point of looking like one of the dudes on the cover of Mean's Health - that would make me, and the OH, very happy!

[didelydoo]

1 is low, 30 is high- do reps within this range and you'll get bigger.

[HonestIago]

MitchT said:

What would you call low reps though? I currently do three sets of 12 on each machine. And how many times a week should I go? I'm aiming to get to the point of looking like one of the dudes on the cover of Mean's Health - that would make me, and the OH, very happy!

Sounds like you need a decent routine before worrying about the intricacies of sets and reps. There is PLENTY of info on the net regarding how to structure weight training. If you are relatively new to weight training then a "Push/Pull/Legs" split would be good. Learn how to squat/deadlift correctly as well as other compound exercises. Machine weights are fine at the end of a workout to really exhaust a bodypart but should not be the foundation of your training. Looking like a Menshealth cover model is not easy; you need very good muscular development as well as being very lean. Getting the size alone would take several years naturally, less with anabolics which some MH cover models WILL have used.

[boothy1987]

General rule seem to be 3-5 for strength, 6-10 for building muscle and anything higher will focus on muscular endurance

Everyone is different though

[HonestIago]

boothy1987 said:

General rule seem to be 3-5 for strength, 6-10 for building muscle and anything higher will focus on muscular endurance

Everyone is different though

That is the usual diatribe normally trotted out. People overthink it too much and are not as different as they like to think. If I Squat 100kgx20, and work up to 100kgx30 I will be stronger in all aspects not just "muscular endurance".

[didelydoo]

HonestIago said:

That is the usual diatribe normally trotted out. People overthink it too much and are not as different as they like to think. If I Squat 100kgx20, and work up to 100kgx30 I will be stronger in all aspects not just "muscular endurance".

But going from 20x100 to 30x100 won't neccesarily make your 1RM go up...

[balders118]

HonestIago said:

boothy1987 said:

General rule seem to be 3-5 for strength, 6-10 for building muscle and anything higher will focus on muscular endurance

Everyone is different though

That is the usual diatribe normally trotted out. People overthink it too much and are not as different as they like to think. If I Squat 100kgx20, and work up to 100kgx30 I will be stronger in all aspects not just "muscular endurance".

Muscular endurance is just strength

I.e. a 70kg guy who can bench press 140kg will be able to do more press ups than a 70kg guy who can bench press 70kg.

[HonestIago]

didelydoo said:

HonestIago said:

That is the usual diatribe normally trotted out. People overthink it too much and are not as different as they like to think. If I Squat 100kgx20, and work up to 100kgx30 I will be stronger in all aspects not just "muscular endurance".

But going from 20x100 to 30x100 won't neccesarily make your 1RM go up...

I would argue it does from personal experience.

[didelydoo]

With 100kg I don't think it does, but it's all relative I guess.

Edit- I've actually experienced top end losses doing exclusively high rep squatting.

[HonestIago]

didelydoo said:

With 100kg I don't think it does, but it's all relative I guess.

What difference does the weight make? Only the relative difficulty to the lifter would have any influence surely??

[BenM77]

balders118 said:

Muscular endurance is just strength

I.e. a 70kg guy who can bench press 140kg will be able to do more press ups than a 70kg guy who can bench press 70kg.

Is there not more to it than that ? I know I have more endurance than a friend who is a fair bit stronger than me through personal experience. His 1RM is higher but at low weight circuits etc I have better endurance.

Like your recent discussions on fast and slow twitch muscles, when you did 1000 push-ups and affected your bench press.

[balders118]

HonestIago said:

didelydoo said:

HonestIago said:

That is the usual diatribe normally trotted out. People overthink it too much and are not as different as they like to think. If I Squat 100kgx20, and work up to 100kgx30 I will be stronger in all aspects not just "muscular endurance".

But going from 20x100 to 30x100 won't neccesarily make your 1RM go up...

I would argue it does from personal experience.

It depends on previous training.

Someone who is relatively new to it will amlostg certainly see an increase in their 1RM by increasing reps as such.

Someone who has been lifting a long time is more likely to see a reduction in the fatigue in the muscles via a number of means, but not necessarily an increase in 1RM.

[didelydoo]

HonestIago said:

What difference does the weight make? Only the relative difficulty to the lifter would have any influence surely??

I was meaning that repping say, 100kg, when it's ~40% of your max isn't a good/optimum way to build strength or size. Repping say, 150kg or above works better.

[balders118]

BenM77 said:

balders118 said:

Muscular endurance is just strength

I.e. a 70kg guy who can bench press 140kg will be able to do more press ups than a 70kg guy who can bench press 70kg.

Is there not more to it than that ? I know I have more endurance than a friend who is a fair bit stronger than me through personal experience. His 1RM is higher but at low weight circuits etc I have better endurance.

Like your recent discussions on fast and slow twitch muscles, when you did 1000 push-ups and affected your bench press.

Yes, there is more to it than that. But, you can boil it down to exactly that. Muscular endurance is the muscles ability to reproduce movement after movement. When you start talking about cicruits it's most likely you are cardiovascularly fitter than your friend and therefore better able to deal with waste products that can cause fatigue. If you take two people, one stronger than the other at the same cardiovascular fitness level the stronger guy will have better muscular endurance.

Does that make sense?

didelydoo said:

With 100kg I don't think it does, but it's all relative I guess.

Edit- I've actually experienced top end losses doing exclusively high rep squatting.

That'll be for reasons I was talking about in the fast twitch thread if you've read it - adaptation of muscle fibres to become more oxidative to better resist fatigue. EDIT: In general more oxaditive will mean less powerful, very basically

Edited by balders118 on Monday 10th December 14:15

[didelydoo]

High rep squats do make you grow like a weed though!

[didelydoo]

balders118 said:

That'll be for reasons I was talking about in the fast twitch thread if you've read it - adaptation of muscle fibres to become more oxidative to better resist fatigue. EDIT: In general more oxaditive will mean less powerful, very basically

Did read that- interesting stuff and explains a few things.

[BenM77]

balders118 said:

BenM77 said:

balders118 said:

Muscular endurance is just strength

I.e. a 70kg guy who can bench press 140kg will be able to do more press ups than a 70kg guy who can bench press 70kg.

Is there not more to it than that ? I know I have more endurance than a friend who is a fair bit stronger than me through personal experience. His 1RM is higher but at low weight circuits etc I have better endurance.

Like your recent discussions on fast and slow twitch muscles, when you did 1000 push-ups and affected your bench press.

Yes, there is more to it than that. But, you can boil it down to exactly that. Muscular endurance is the muscles ability to reproduce movement after movement. When you start talking about cicruits it's most likely you are cardiovascularly fitter than your friend and therefore better able to deal with waste products that can cause fatigue. If you take two people, one stronger than the other at the same cardiovascular fitness level the stronger guy will have better muscular endurance.

Does that make sense?

didelydoo said:

With 100kg I don't think it does, but it's all relative I guess.

Edit- I've actually experienced top end losses doing exclusively high rep squatting.

That'll be for reasons I was talking about in the fast twitch thread if you've read it - adaptation of muscle fibres to become more oxidative to better resist fatigue. EDIT: In general more oxaditive will mean less powerful, very basically

Edited by balders118 on Monday 10th December 14:15

Perfect sense

This is how I see it as I know I have lost 1RM from training with the higher reps, lower weight. But you can still grow with lighter weight, high reps.

Because I have trained both ways I would say you can grow on whatever rep scheme as long as you are on a calorie surplus, I know there are arguments for optimum reps but it seems there are quite a few ways to skin this cat

[smiffy180]

low reps of heavy weight (obviously after a good warmup) say 5x5 programme which gives size and then do high reps lower weight for the definition. Jay cutler does this.