Calling the 'real' men GTFIH if you squat
Discussion
I’ve been squatting for a little while once a week as part of trying to develop and condition my lower body. However, we don’t have a squat rack, so instead of being a little girl and resorting to the smith machine or leg press, we have invented a way of racking the oly bar at shoulder height on another piece of equipment.
Firstly, I always thought it was a necessity to use the foam ‘tampon’ when squatting as the weight on the bar would feel like a blunt knife pressing through you. However, I’ve read that you should try doing it without due to better bar placement? That brings me onto my next point; I’ve always had the bar pretty high (resting at the top of my traps) but seen that people seem to think that resting it between a natural groove (which I think sits between the bottom of your traps and your shoulders) lower down is more beneficial for a) less stress on your lower back/spine and b) makes it easier to take the bare bar.
I usually go all the way to the ground but as I am trying to increase my entire leg strength, the heavier I get up to, I can only just about get parallel when I’m trying to max out. I’ve noticed a decent improvement, but will lowering the bar on my back which will no doubt change my posture and technique, make things a lot more difficult in terms of lifting heavier weight?
Also, whilst I’m on the subject, my current legs day starts off on squats with warm up sets, calf raises (both standing and seated), good mornings (which really hammer my hamstrings and lower back), walking lunges and leg extensions super-setting with some plyometric leg presses.
Whoever else trains legs hard, what do you throw into your programs aside from the staple?
Cheers.
Firstly, I always thought it was a necessity to use the foam ‘tampon’ when squatting as the weight on the bar would feel like a blunt knife pressing through you. However, I’ve read that you should try doing it without due to better bar placement? That brings me onto my next point; I’ve always had the bar pretty high (resting at the top of my traps) but seen that people seem to think that resting it between a natural groove (which I think sits between the bottom of your traps and your shoulders) lower down is more beneficial for a) less stress on your lower back/spine and b) makes it easier to take the bare bar.
I usually go all the way to the ground but as I am trying to increase my entire leg strength, the heavier I get up to, I can only just about get parallel when I’m trying to max out. I’ve noticed a decent improvement, but will lowering the bar on my back which will no doubt change my posture and technique, make things a lot more difficult in terms of lifting heavier weight?
Also, whilst I’m on the subject, my current legs day starts off on squats with warm up sets, calf raises (both standing and seated), good mornings (which really hammer my hamstrings and lower back), walking lunges and leg extensions super-setting with some plyometric leg presses.
Whoever else trains legs hard, what do you throw into your programs aside from the staple?
Cheers.
Padding is not required and effectively pushes your neck/shoulders/back forward so is not recommended by many.
Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so. Experiment.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so. Experiment.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
Rest it across the top/back of your shoulders where your shoulder muscles and traps are. Your hands should be level with your shoulders when the bar is resting on your back. Make sure it's resting on something relatively solid, like your shoulder muscles/back muscles and that it doesn't touch your spine/neck at all at any point during the movement.
Using the "sissy pad" is personal preferance, it will feel uncomfortable to begin with if you go straight to the bar but you'll get use to it. When i started squatting, i thought the "sissy pad" took too much of the feeling out so wrapped my towel tightly round the bar instead but now i use nothing.
How far down you should be going depends on what you want to do and who you ask. Some people determine a full squat to be "ass to grass" so you can't go down any further, these will give you a much great range of movement so will work more muscles but you won't be able to lift as much as if you only go to the parallel. A certified powerlifting squat though is to parallel which is how far i go down, anything above parallel to me is a partial squat.
With squats, go with what you want to do and what you're striving for. I'd say if you're currently doing full "ass to grass" squats, keep doing them and then use something like the leg press to blast your quads a bit more after you've done the squats.
edit:
My normal leg day is
Squats - going to parallel 2 warmup sets followed by 3 working sets.
Hack Squat Machine - i do this backwards so turn it into more of a front squat machine rather than a hack squat, this hits my quads a lot more. Purely doing 3 working sets of 8 reps.
Super set of leg extensions and leg curls - 5 sets of 12
Calf Raises - 3 sets of 8
At the minute, my squats are struggling a bit with all the running that i'm doing. I'm cutting weight but also training for a 10km run and looking at doing a tough mudder later this year.
Using the "sissy pad" is personal preferance, it will feel uncomfortable to begin with if you go straight to the bar but you'll get use to it. When i started squatting, i thought the "sissy pad" took too much of the feeling out so wrapped my towel tightly round the bar instead but now i use nothing.
How far down you should be going depends on what you want to do and who you ask. Some people determine a full squat to be "ass to grass" so you can't go down any further, these will give you a much great range of movement so will work more muscles but you won't be able to lift as much as if you only go to the parallel. A certified powerlifting squat though is to parallel which is how far i go down, anything above parallel to me is a partial squat.
With squats, go with what you want to do and what you're striving for. I'd say if you're currently doing full "ass to grass" squats, keep doing them and then use something like the leg press to blast your quads a bit more after you've done the squats.
edit:
My normal leg day is
Squats - going to parallel 2 warmup sets followed by 3 working sets.
Hack Squat Machine - i do this backwards so turn it into more of a front squat machine rather than a hack squat, this hits my quads a lot more. Purely doing 3 working sets of 8 reps.
Super set of leg extensions and leg curls - 5 sets of 12
Calf Raises - 3 sets of 8
At the minute, my squats are struggling a bit with all the running that i'm doing. I'm cutting weight but also training for a 10km run and looking at doing a tough mudder later this year.
Edited by Regiment on Monday 11th February 12:20
LordGrover said:
Padding is not required and effectively pushes your neck/shoulders/back forward so is not recommended by many.
Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so. Experiment.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
^ What LG said.Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so. Experiment.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
LordGrover said:
Padding is not required and often pushes your neck/shoulders/back forward so is not recommended by many.
Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
Thanks, the bolded bit. When you say 'full squat' do you mean going all the way to the ground?Bar placement varies, as does the the area(s) worked doing so.
If you're failing to do a full squat when you load up, you're not strong enough/the bar's too heavy. Lighten the load and increase gradually when you're able to do so.
Because I've read/heard of a lot of conflicting information.
For example, if I loaded up weight I could go all the way down with then I wouldn't be able to get up much and therefore lack any bigger developments in my quads which would take a better benefit from heavier weight at the sacrifice of a lower ROM.
I completely agree that going full ATG would be beneficial ALL ROUND but obviously the more weight and therefore stress your body is under, the more you will grow. I'm sure ATG would put more stress on your hamstrings (hence why I also do good mornings).
Also, take into consideration the fact that going ATG you may well get stuck there (not good without a proper rack) and I *assume* you would be open to more injury.
Regiment said:
Rest it across the top/back of your shoulders where your shoulder muscles and traps are. Your hands should be level with your shoulders when the bar is resting on your back. Make sure it's resting on something relatively solid, like your shoulder muscles/back muscles and that it doesn't touch your spine/neck at all at any point during the movement.
Using the "sissy pad" is personal preferance, it will feel uncomfortable to begin with if you go straight to the bar but you'll get use to it. When i started squatting, i thought the "sissy pad" took too much of the feeling out so wrapped my towel tightly round the bar instead but now i use nothing.
How far down you should be going depends on what you want to do and who you ask. Some people determine a full squat to be "ass to grass" so you can't go down any further, these will give you a much great range of movement so will work more muscles but you won't be able to lift as much as if you only go to the parallel. A certified powerlifting squat though is to parallel which is how far i go down, anything above parallel to me is a partial squat.
With squats, go with what you want to do and what you're striving for. I'd say if you're currently doing full "ass to grass" squats, keep doing them and then use something like the leg press to blast your quads a bit more after you've done the squats.
Again, thanks for your reply.Using the "sissy pad" is personal preferance, it will feel uncomfortable to begin with if you go straight to the bar but you'll get use to it. When i started squatting, i thought the "sissy pad" took too much of the feeling out so wrapped my towel tightly round the bar instead but now i use nothing.
How far down you should be going depends on what you want to do and who you ask. Some people determine a full squat to be "ass to grass" so you can't go down any further, these will give you a much great range of movement so will work more muscles but you won't be able to lift as much as if you only go to the parallel. A certified powerlifting squat though is to parallel which is how far i go down, anything above parallel to me is a partial squat.
With squats, go with what you want to do and what you're striving for. I'd say if you're currently doing full "ass to grass" squats, keep doing them and then use something like the leg press to blast your quads a bit more after you've done the squats.
I will give it a go without the pad this week and see how I get on. The first couple of sets I do I always go ATG with higher reps. One reason is that it also helps me to fully stretch and get the blood flowing, then I just reduce my reps and do parallel.
As I say, I’m pretty happy with the progress I’ve made so far, just want to reduce my risk of any injury and maximise my time in the gym for strength gains.
I have determined my ROM is complete by analysing my depth of squat with 1. no bar (ie. plain BW squat) and 2. with an empty bar. No excess stress involved, just how far my body is happy to go.
I aim to get to the same position with a loaded bar.
NB. I'm not trying to go big, just good movement and strength.
I aim to get to the same position with a loaded bar.
NB. I'm not trying to go big, just good movement and strength.
gjf764 said:
Squats
Step ups
Bulgarian split squats
Nordic hamstring lowers
Romanian dead lifts
Farmers walks (not strictly legs but a good extra core blast)
Always finish with 20 reps of a low weight (80kgs) with full depth to help my aging flexibilty
Jump squats and box jumps on a power day
That seems like a pretty heavy day. I've started doing regular deads again, but I'll be fStep ups
Bulgarian split squats
Nordic hamstring lowers
Romanian dead lifts
Farmers walks (not strictly legs but a good extra core blast)
Always finish with 20 reps of a low weight (80kgs) with full depth to help my aging flexibilty
Jump squats and box jumps on a power day
ked if I could do them (to my potential at least) on my squat days. I like to have at least 2-3 days between benching, squatting and deadlifting.
muon said:
That seems like a pretty heavy day. I've started doing regular deads again, but I'll be fked if I could do them (to my potential at least) on my squat days. I like to have at least 2-3 days between benching, squatting and deadlifting.
I don't do them all in one session and certainly not if I've gone (relatively) heavy. I may also have misnamed an exercise, by Romanian deadlift I meant straight legged deads to hit my hammysked if I could do them (to my potential at least) on my squat days. I like to have at least 2-3 days between benching, squatting and deadlifting.Squats are one of the main exercises that I always do as it recruits all your muscles and great for working your core. I always throw rotate between various types every couple of weeks to keep things fresh (back, hack, fronts, bulgarian squats). IMO it's better to squat without the foam roller on the bar, you'll get used to it in no time.
As I train for tennis and now basketball also, on leg days I add various other exercises like deadlifts, straight leg DLs, leg presses, calf raises, medicine ball lunges, leg extensions and plyometrics just to kill my legs off. In my younger days, I used to neglect training legs but now never miss them as having a strong set of legs will make playing sports so much easier not to mention more muscles to lug around means you burn more calories.
It's also important to make sure you do your stretches - I do anyway to keep myself flexible and it helps with injury prevention.
As I train for tennis and now basketball also, on leg days I add various other exercises like deadlifts, straight leg DLs, leg presses, calf raises, medicine ball lunges, leg extensions and plyometrics just to kill my legs off. In my younger days, I used to neglect training legs but now never miss them as having a strong set of legs will make playing sports so much easier not to mention more muscles to lug around means you burn more calories.
It's also important to make sure you do your stretches - I do anyway to keep myself flexible and it helps with injury prevention.
I've been following the StrongLifts 5x5 routine for a few weeks so have recently introduced the squat into my weekly workout. 3 times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
I started at 40Kg and now I seem to be stuck at 75Kg, I think part of it is psychological, I take the weight on my shoulders (probably position 2 on that diagram, no padding) and think "Chuff, this is heavy!" I'm often reducing the weight to make sure I finish the routine and maintain form. Figure its better to do this than struggle to get back up.
I do find I have to concentrate on the form more and more, making sure my feet are spaced correctly, tighten the core etc. I think on my workout last Friday I had my feet pointing out too much as I've tweaked my groin slightly. Its amazing how bad form starts showing the more weight you start using.
Rob
I started at 40Kg and now I seem to be stuck at 75Kg, I think part of it is psychological, I take the weight on my shoulders (probably position 2 on that diagram, no padding) and think "Chuff, this is heavy!" I'm often reducing the weight to make sure I finish the routine and maintain form. Figure its better to do this than struggle to get back up.
I do find I have to concentrate on the form more and more, making sure my feet are spaced correctly, tighten the core etc. I think on my workout last Friday I had my feet pointing out too much as I've tweaked my groin slightly. Its amazing how bad form starts showing the more weight you start using.
Rob
rdhawkins said:
I've been following the StrongLifts 5x5 routine for a few weeks so have recently introduced the squat into my weekly workout. 3 times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
I started at 40Kg and now I seem to be stuck at 75Kg, I think part of it is psychological, I take the weight on my shoulders (probably position 2 on that diagram, no padding) and think "Chuff, this is heavy!" I'm often reducing the weight to make sure I finish the routine and maintain form. Figure its better to do this than struggle to get back up.
I do find I have to concentrate on the form more and more, making sure my feet are spaced correctly, tighten the core etc. I think on my workout last Friday I had my feet pointing out too much as I've tweaked my groin slightly. Its amazing how bad form starts showing the more weight you start using.
Rob
Well, I only recently started on squats, but I think foot position would vary depending on the individual. I have quite wide hips so my stance is maybe a little wider than most, but my feet are neutral. I did 150kg last week for 5 reps but the last 1-2 I wouldn’t have classed as a decent squat. The first 4 or so were parallel (thigh/hip crease inline with knees). Bear in mind that I could only do 100kgs for a similar amount of reps just 4 weeks ago and you can see how quickly your legs can strengthen. Just make sure you eat a lot. I started at 40Kg and now I seem to be stuck at 75Kg, I think part of it is psychological, I take the weight on my shoulders (probably position 2 on that diagram, no padding) and think "Chuff, this is heavy!" I'm often reducing the weight to make sure I finish the routine and maintain form. Figure its better to do this than struggle to get back up.
I do find I have to concentrate on the form more and more, making sure my feet are spaced correctly, tighten the core etc. I think on my workout last Friday I had my feet pointing out too much as I've tweaked my groin slightly. Its amazing how bad form starts showing the more weight you start using.
Rob
The problem I have is that because the bar is high and when you’re on the way back up, your body wants to lean forwards which will give you issues and that can be really dangerous. Hopefully getting the bar lower on my back and getting rid of the pad will help this. I’ll see how the next few weeks pan out.
Do you have a proper squat rack? At least you don’t need to worry about dropping it so much.
And yeah, having a large weight across your shoulders is a little daunting, but when you concentrate that it’s your biggest muscle groups that are moving the weight (and not your arms or your shoulders), hopefully that feeling will disappear.
Personally I'd change gym if possible if your gym has no squat rack.
When you push on with squatting a squat rack makes it far more safe as you can drop the weight on the supporting bars if it gets out of control.
I love squatting. Squats and deads are my favourite exercises and I think nothing causes growth more than them.
150kg squat for 5 is a pretty decent squat for someone new to it!
Personally in that picture I am in the middle but I think given we all have decent biometrics its whatever is comfortable and works for you. Going super low and causing things like knee pain is stupid but if you can get low with no issues then I'd go low.
So essentially what I'm saying is find what your body can do and do no more. Some folk can't even squat comfortably and in that case, then I suggest they don't do it.
Lee
When you push on with squatting a squat rack makes it far more safe as you can drop the weight on the supporting bars if it gets out of control.
I love squatting. Squats and deads are my favourite exercises and I think nothing causes growth more than them.
150kg squat for 5 is a pretty decent squat for someone new to it!
Personally in that picture I am in the middle but I think given we all have decent biometrics its whatever is comfortable and works for you. Going super low and causing things like knee pain is stupid but if you can get low with no issues then I'd go low.
So essentially what I'm saying is find what your body can do and do no more. Some folk can't even squat comfortably and in that case, then I suggest they don't do it.
Lee
muon said:
Well, I only recently started on squats, but I think foot position would vary depending on the individual. I have quite wide hips so my stance is maybe a little wider than most, but my feet are neutral. I did 150kg last week for 5 reps but the last 1-2 I wouldn’t have classed as a decent squat. The first 4 or so were parallel (thigh/hip crease inline with knees). Bear in mind that I could only do 100kgs for a similar amount of reps just 4 weeks ago and you can see how quickly your legs can strengthen. Just make sure you eat a lot.
The problem I have is that because the bar is high and when you’re on the way back up, your body wants to lean forwards which will give you issues and that can be really dangerous. Hopefully getting the bar lower on my back and getting rid of the pad will help this. I’ll see how the next few weeks pan out.
Do you have a proper squat rack? At least you don’t need to worry about dropping it so much.
And yeah, having a large weight across your shoulders is a little daunting, but when you concentrate that it’s your biggest muscle groups that are moving the weight (and not your arms or your shoulders), hopefully that feeling will disappear.
I think that's were I'm struggling, eating enough of the right stuff. I've reached a bit of a plateau on all of the SL exercises (squat, bench press, bar bell row, dead lift and overhead press). Also I'm doing other stuff sometimes on the same day which isn't helping.The problem I have is that because the bar is high and when you’re on the way back up, your body wants to lean forwards which will give you issues and that can be really dangerous. Hopefully getting the bar lower on my back and getting rid of the pad will help this. I’ll see how the next few weeks pan out.
Do you have a proper squat rack? At least you don’t need to worry about dropping it so much.
And yeah, having a large weight across your shoulders is a little daunting, but when you concentrate that it’s your biggest muscle groups that are moving the weight (and not your arms or your shoulders), hopefully that feeling will disappear.
The gym I use does have a squat rack and its hardly ever in use which is good. I've also found myself tilting forward on occasion and yes it's a bit scary.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff