Why do some people struggle to squat so much?

[mu0n]

I’ve seen it a lot. I find squatting easy – stick my backside out, back straight as I can, weight through my heels and I can squat so my hamstrings are basically pressing against my calves and sit there quite comfortably. However, it seems some people can’t do this. I was teaching my gf some exercises yesterday as she said she never knew what to do in a gym. So, I tried to teach her to squat, but with no weight she just looked uncomfortable doing it… knees automatically go in, goes up on her toes, doesn’t move down in plane, looks off-balance… not just her though, I have friends that do it, even seen others squatting with weight with horrible technique.

Is it a learned technique or do some people lack the biomechanics of performing a squat properly? I had her changing her stance, concentrating her weight over her heels and whatnot but it was all over the place, so to save an argument/frustration I told her not to worry about it too much and so we did lunges (of which her technique was spot on) and leg press/hack squat which was a lot better as it forces you into the movement.

Anyone else had the same themselves or trying to teach someone how to squat safely and encountered the above?

[Juanco20]

mu0n said:

I’ve seen it a lot. I find squatting easy – stick my backside out, back straight as I can, weight through my heels and I can squat so my hamstrings are basically pressing against my calves and sit there quite comfortably. However, it seems some people can’t do this. I was teaching my gf some exercises yesterday as she said she never knew what to do in a gym. So, I tried to teach her to squat, but with no weight she just looked uncomfortable doing it… knees automatically go in, goes up on her toes, doesn’t move down in plane, looks off-balance… not just her though, I have friends that do it, even seen others squatting with weight with horrible technique.

Is it a learned technique or do some people lack the biomechanics of performing a squat properly? I had her changing her stance, concentrating her weight over her heels and whatnot but it was all over the place, so to save an argument/frustration I told her not to worry about it too much and so we did lunges (of which her technique was spot on) and leg press/hack squat which was a lot better as it forces you into the movement.

Anyone else had the same themselves or trying to teach someone how to squat safely and encountered the above?

Usually a flexibilty thing, either in the ankles or the hips. Although that is usually less of an issue with women

[Regiment]

Flexibility issues, muscle imbalances, poor joint mobility.

I have a problem where my ankles have "poor" mobility I.e. with bare feet or normal gym shoes, it'd be impossible for me to do a full arse to ground squat, so will be getting some weight lifting shoes at the end of the month to fix this.

Watch these videos, might give you some good ideas to help your girlfriend.

http://youtu.be/_nY8IzoIhjM
http://youtu.be/ZQSjIWEhvV0

Edit: another thing that I also have a problem with, when squatting barefoot or with normal gym shoes, I'm happier squatting with some weight on my back than with no weight or just a bar. I have to warm up with a minimum of 40kg for me to be happy but normally warm up with 60kg, that's my first warm up setup.

Edited by Regiment on Monday 10th June 11:07

[eztiger]

My problem is the cv side of things. Even when squatting pathetic weights (relatively) I struggle not because of the muscles being used but just getting enough oxygen. I feel like I've been hit by a train once I finish a set.

Maybe that's a side effect of bad technique but I think it's just poor overall fitness!

So I have the opposite - I don't understand why people can squat so much!

[mu0n]

I'll check those vids later - thanks.

Yeah someone said on here I think it's the achilles not stretching enough? Or flexibility issues there.

For the time being though I’m just getting her to do lunges & leg pressing as she has no issues with those. I just don’t want her squatting with improper technique. It’s hard to teach someone when they physically can’t seem to do the movement.

She did complain that her legs were sore this morning, so a good start.

[Juanco20]

mu0n said:

I'll check those vids later - thanks.

Yeah someone said on here I think it's the achilles not stretching enough? Or flexibility issues there.

For the time being though I’m just getting her to do lunges & leg pressing as she has no issues with those. I just don’t want her squatting with improper technique. It’s hard to teach someone when they physically can’t seem to do the movement.

She did complain that her legs were sore this morning, so a good start.

There could be 101 reasons why, everybody is different. I've turned my ankle 3 times in 2 years which means that my dorsiflexion range in my right ankle is half of what it is in the left, which obviously leads to a whole host of problems. And sometimes it isn't just as simple as stretching, I've tried that for 18 months with no improvement and I've now got an MRI next Monday to finally see what is wrong. Could just be scar tissue impingement or something requiring surgery. Look forward to a time when I can squat without pain

[Regiment]

Muon, one thing you could try is see if she can put something secure under her heels, about half an inch minimum, and just see if she's happier squatting low. If she is happier with her heels up, it's the ankles, but with you saying her knees bow in, it does sound like a muscular imbalance.

Edited by Regiment on Monday 10th June 11:41

[goldblum]

Regiment said:

Muon, one thing you could try is see if she can put something secure under her heels, about half an inch minimum, and just see if she's happier squatting low. If she is happier with her heels up, it's the ankles, but with you saying her knees bow in, it does sound like a muscular imbalance.

Edited by Regiment on Monday 10th June 11:41

Knee valgus (knees bowing in) on the ascent is caused by lack of ankle flexibility. Hip strengthening (glutes, ITB) also helps higher up the lift.

[Otispunkmeyer]

I havent got horrible technique for squats, (though my split squats could use a little work as I can get quite unsteady) but I struggle to squat much more than the bar + 40 kg (60-65kg all in is it?).

I mean its like a cliff, 30 kg yep, fine. 40 starting to struggle, might only get sets of 8 done. anything more and I'm looking at not being able to come back up or only doing half motion. The other thing is the pain of having the bar across my back. Honestly I have to get a towel out or something and I always get an odd sensation in the forearms like I've cut the blood off. I nearly dropped the bar once because my hand went dead. So I am doing something wrong up top, even if I have got the squat motion right.

[Otispunkmeyer]

eztiger said:

My problem is the cv side of things. Even when squatting pathetic weights (relatively) I struggle not because of the muscles being used but just getting enough oxygen. I feel like I've been hit by a train once I finish a set.

Maybe that's a side effect of bad technique but I think it's just poor overall fitness!

So I have the opposite - I don't understand why people can squat so much!

I get this, but for me its remembering to bloody breathe!!! In swimming I am used to exertion whilst holding the breath. Necessary because you can't breathe water. But in the gym you can breathe whenever! I just need to remember to get enough air.

[mattikake]

I second all of the above.

mu0n said:

I was teaching my gf some exercises yesterday as she said she never knew what to do in a gym. So, I tried to teach her to squat, but with no weight she just looked uncomfortable doing it…

Difficult to say exactly from text, but what you've inadvertently done is a posture assessment. Not sure if you were aware of that, but well improvised and well spotted on the issues:-

mu0n said:

knees automatically go in,

Dominating Adductor group, possibly dominating vastus medialis/sartorius.

mu0n said:

goes up on her toes,

Tight Calves. Also could affect knees knocking if imbalance exists on either head (side) of the calf.

I'm guessing she wears heels a lot.

mu0n said:

doesn’t move down in plane, looks off-balance… not just her though, I have friends that do it, even seen others squatting with weight with horrible technique.

General imbalances cause an off-balance/unstable squat. Imbalanced muscles lead to erroneous feedback from proprioceptors (a sense that tells the brain what position a muscle is in. If they are out of kinter, the information is wrong = bad balance).

mu0n said:

Is it a learned technique or do some people lack the biomechanics of performing a squat properly? I had her changing her stance, concentrating her weight over her heels and whatnot but it was all over the place, so to save an argument/frustration I told her not to worry about it too much and so we did lunges (of which her technique was spot on) and leg press/hack squat which was a lot better as it forces you into the movement.

Anyone else had the same themselves or trying to teach someone how to squat safely and encountered the above?

So it's part learned, part talent, but mostly muscle balance.

Try getting her to practice goblet squats. Squat low and deep. Let her feet spray out as much as possible to see if her heels still come off the ground. But basically other core balancing should be done first.

[mu0n]

Thanks for all the advice.

Do you think just getting her to do the weighted lunges + leg press/hack squat for the time being is recommended?

I'm hopeing if she does this regularly, along with some supplemented core exercises I taught her (leg raises, planks, sit-ups holding a medicine ball out straight, side bends, resisted sit-ups with the cables) she will be able to do a squat with proper form.

She has started up swimming which is good. Tbh, I'm not overly fussed if she keeps it up or not... I'd like her too but if she doesn't enjoy it then fair enough. At least she knows a few things she can be getting on with.

[turbolucie]

I found it impossible to start with, kept falling over backwards and my technique was all wrong. However doing sets of 50 unweighted with someone telling you as you go along how to improve the next one sorted things out.

[goldblum]

mu0n said:

Thanks for all the advice.

Do you think just getting her to do the weighted lunges + leg press/hack squat for the time being is recommended?

I'm hopeing if she does this regularly, along with some supplemented core exercises I taught her (leg raises, planks, sit-ups holding a medicine ball out straight, side bends, resisted sit-ups with the cables) she will be able to do a squat with proper form.

The reason her knees move inwards is poor ankle flexibility, it's very common especially with beginners. Poor dorsiflexion ROM leads to tibial rotation which in turn starts to push the knee inwards. Stretching and some sort of heel lift - you mention she goes up on her toes - will cure this. I've just submitted a paper on squat biomechanics so if you want links to current thinking on knee valgus let me know.

[Juanco20]

goldblum said:

The reason her knees move inwards is poor ankle flexibility, it's very common especially with beginners. Poor dorsiflexion ROM leads to tibial rotation which in turn starts to push the knee inwards. Stretching and some sort of heel lift - you mention she goes up on her toes - will cure this. I've just submitted a paper on squat biomechanics so if you want links to current thinking on knee valgus let me know.

Copies available?

[goldblum]

Juanco20 said:

Copies available?

I'm nowhere near clever enough to be published. The paper was submitted to MMU and is a performance analysis of a client's squat and recommendations to correct any biomechanical weakness in his technique. Very boring but it happens that my client's knees showed excess lateral movement - pretty similar to the OP's girlfriend if I understand his post correctly.

[Magic919]

Haymarket are publishing you right now.

[goldblum]

Magic919 said:

Haymarket are publishing you right now.

They are, in a way. I had hoped for a more auspicious publishing debut, but there you go.

[mu0n]

goldblum said:

The reason her knees move inwards is poor ankle flexibility, it's very common especially with beginners. Poor dorsiflexion ROM leads to tibial rotation which in turn starts to push the knee inwards. Stretching and some sort of heel lift - you mention she goes up on her toes - will cure this. I've just submitted a paper on squat biomechanics so if you want links to current thinking on knee valgus let me know.

Hey, thanks. A medical/technical paper probably won't help me. But giving me exercises I can show her to improve the flexibility etc would be welcome.

[Regiment]

Watch the YouTube videos I posted Muon and subscribe to Elliot's channel, as she's squatting tell her as well to not just become strong but to become strength itself and make sure she breathes through her balls .