Hardgainer Help

[BettySwollocks2]

High all,

Ive been working out for 3 years now, and thoroughly enjoying doing so, but while the back and shoulders and legs etc have all come on really well, My chest just WILL NOT GROWWW ARGH!! ive tried various diet changes, workout routine changes, exercise changes but my chest will not ever get that cut desired look. Ive recently gone on my summer cut and im down to 10.8%, every other body part is looking leaner and better (IMO) but my chest Still does not have that typical good chest look. Now just to clarify i bench 100kg 3x8 (right down to the chest) and all other chest exercises are as strong but my chest doesnt look like it is that strong!

is there any exercise i can try. My current chest routine is flat bench 100kg 3 x 8, incline flyes 20kg dumbells 3x12, decline bench 110 3x8 , weighted chest dips BW +20kg 5 x 10, cable crossovers 24 kg per handle 3 x 10, and regular press ups throughout the week.

[burwoodman]

BettySwollocks2 said:

High all,

Ive been working out for 3 years now, and thoroughly enjoying doing so, but while the back and shoulders and legs etc have all come on really well, My chest just WILL NOT GROWWW ARGH!! ive tried various diet changes, workout routine changes, exercise changes but my chest will not ever get that cut desired look. Ive recently gone on my summer cut and im down to 10.8%, every other body part is looking leaner and better (IMO) but my chest Still does not have that typical good chest look. Now just to clarify i bench 100kg 3x8 (right down to the chest) and all other chest exercises are as strong but my chest doesnt look like it is that strong!

is there any exercise i can try. My current chest routine is flat bench 100kg 3 x 8, incline flyes 20kg dumbells 3x12, decline bench 110 3x8 , weighted chest dips BW +20kg 5 x 10, cable crossovers 24 kg per handle 3 x 10, and regular press ups throughout the week.

My personal opinion is that cables do jack st for muscle and push ups even less. Are you sore the day or so following-programme looks good to me. Although incline and decline in the same work out seems ott to me. I do about 12 sets TOTAL.

[Hoofy]

One thing you could try is doing less work. So don't do the press ups and cut out half the stuff you do, let the body rest. Also given that you say you've cut and your chest doesn't look as good, are you actually talking muscle size or definition?

[BettySwollocks2]

thats why i do incline flyes and decline press because doing all three presses seems pointless. i usually feel sore after most workouts. if i dont i havent worked hard enough.

in asnwer to the second question, I guess there is a bit of size there but it doesnt look it because there just isnt any definition even though there is in my other muscle groups. Ive seen fat bellied guys with better looking chest def than me even with 10.9% BF

EDIT: Would anyone reccomend stronglifts type workouts of 5 x 5 with heavier weight? or am i going to just increase strength and not size.

[Animal]

Are you trying to get more chest size or definition?

Have you tried limiting your chest workout to benching only and increasing the volume? Personally I'd stick to benching, pushups and dips only.

[pilchardthecat]

Hoofy said:

One thing you could try is doing less work. So don't do the press ups and cut out half the stuff you do, let the body rest. Also given that you say you've cut and your chest doesn't look as good, are you actually talking muscle size or definition?

Yup, far too much volume - too many sets, too many reps

Another suggestion - do the weighted dips first, but do tricep dips, and do them heavier (so you can do just 3 or 4 sets of 5 and no more). This will pre-exhaust your triceps and front delts, so when you do flat bench your chest is getting fully engaged. This has worked wonders for me.

[mu0n]

You’re obviously strong with 8 reps @ 100kg so maybe it’s genetics unless there is something else going on (poor form, short arms etc). If it’s your genetics then you don’t have much chance but I’d cut out the press-ups and the like during the week and hit your chest hard just once a week. Doing the press-ups won’t help your chest size/shape.

Have you lifted more than 100kg? If you can push 8 reps of that, I’d think you should be able to 1RM around 120/130kg so grab a spotter, load an extra 20-30% and then go for 3-4 reps with assistance then immediately off load down to around 90kgs and again with a spotter push out as many as you can and then drop to 70-60kgs and do the same. You could take a short rest between 90>60/70kgs of about 15-20s to recruit some energy but focus on going wide on the lighter set and controlled.

I disagree about cables as I think cable flies are good not just for your pecs but also works your front delts and I believe there is a long thin part of the muscle that runs from the shoulder across to the nipple which is worked hard during any type of fly.

As you are looking for aesthetics rather than out and out chest strength definitely look at hitting chest hard from all angles with flat bench (BB or DB) as your starting point.

Strength =/= size.

Edited by mu0n on Thursday 20th June 11:41

[BettySwollocks2]

i suppose what im saying is how do i get the defined wide chest look. my chest is big enough to bench 1.25 x bodyweight, what Im trying to achieve is it to look like it is! definition is everything

[pilchardthecat]

BettySwollocks2 said:

i suppose what im saying is how do i get the defined wide chest look. my chest is big enough to bench 1.25 x bodyweight, what Im trying to achieve is it to look like it is! definition is everything

There is a huuuuge difference in aestheics between 10.8% bodyfat and 7-8%....

Below 10% every half-a-percent makes a much bigger marginal difference. Going from 9% to 8% is like going from 14% to 10%

I don't see striations etc in the pecs until i'm 8-ish or lower

[mu0n]

pilchardthecat said:

There is a huuuuge difference in aestheics between 10.8% bodyfat and 7-8%....

Below 10% every half-a-percent makes a much bigger marginal difference. Going from 9% to 8% is like going from 14% to 10%

I don't see striations etc in the pecs until i'm 8-ish or lower

True but at 10-11% he should still be able to see a wide definition in his chest like plates of armour. Probably just genetics but I'd definitely be doing some heavy flies on pec dec/cables/db's (incline and flat). A variation of flies will definitely help to create a thick, wide chest. Just be careful of your shoulders as some people do struggle - esp if you are doing db flies on a bench be careful you don't go too heavy it pulls a shoulder out.

[MrWhale]

My chest is joyfull

Have you looked at your form / tempo?

Typically my chest workout consists of 2-3 exercises, have you tried tri/giant sets, played with reps / weight / tempo?

Spend a bit of time really stetching out the pecs, foam rolling, even massage and ART, add in some pullovers and see if it helps.

I have a friend that would train chest then still do random pressups all the time, has a small chest!

[Hoofy]

Which are you closest to?

[SOL111]

Pls don't flame as I admit to being no expert but I was talking about working out to a chap once and he said to always start with flys. His theory was that the limiting factor with bench is your triceps. Therefore by starting out with flys you work your chest more and your bench will fatigue before your triceps.

He seemed pretty big and that he knew what he was talking about so tried it. My chest is still puny but I did find it worked my chest more.

[mu0n]

SOL111 said:

Pls don't flame as I admit to being no expert but I was talking about working out to a chap once and he said to always start with flys. His theory was that the limiting factor with bench is your triceps. Therefore by starting out with flys you work your chest more and your bench will fatigue before your triceps.

He seemed pretty big and that he knew what he was talking about so tried it. My chest is still puny but I did find it worked my chest more.

There are a lot of theories out there but I view bench press (as I do squat and deadlift) as such.

It’s a compound movement that will require the most energy out of any exercise during your workout. It will hit more muscles, it’s a much heavier load than you will use on other exercises (push downs, flies, incline press etc) so I really want to conserve all my energy to use in the biggest movement so I do it right at the very beginning.

It makes sense what you say about tri’s being the limiting factor as most people will fail on the last half of the lift which is very much triceps dominant.

[Hoofy]

SOL111 said:

Pls don't flame as I admit to being no expert but I was talking about working out to a chap once and he said to always start with flys. His theory was that the limiting factor with bench is your triceps. Therefore by starting out with flys you work your chest more and your bench will fatigue before your triceps.

He seemed pretty big and that he knew what he was talking about so tried it. My chest is still puny but I did find it worked my chest more.

I'm no expert either so definitely not flaming you.

Interesting post. It brings up a couple of thoughts:
-I was under the impressive the limiting factor with bench was the pectorals. The weakest part of the push is when the bar is close to the chest and it gets easier as you get further away, which is why some people only do partial reps and don't touch the chest. The final movement is more reliant on the triceps.
-Is he big because of his training or in spite of his training?

[Hoofy]

I think Kai's "I'll never be a weightlifter" video sums that up nicely.

[SOL111]

Thanks guys I just noticed a typo though, I meant the chest fatiguing before the triceps but I think you got that already.

TBH I don't know the guy very well but he looks in good shape and works out pretty hard (much more than I do). I just got chatting to him one day and couldn't work out if it was just bro-science or if he was genuinely giving me good advice.

I think you're right though, when the bar is close to the chest it works the pecs more. Maybe you give them more of a battering if you do the flys first but then that doesn't stack up with his theory (unless you don't take the bar right down to your chest but suppose that's another bench discussion in itself).

Anyway thanks for the feedback. From reading some of the threads on here I'm way down on the pecking order (in terms of lifting knowledge) so thought it worth putting out there and getting some thoughts on it.

[mu0n]

Ordinary_Chap said:

It's taken me years to build a decentish chest. Everything grew far faster than my chest (which you'd expect) but my chest just didn't seem to grow.

I actually found very high reps, exhaustion sets and drop sets caused a lot of growth.

So I may do 60-80kg for 20 reps x2 then 120kg x 8 for 3 sets and then back to a set of 60kg to failure for another 2 sets. I do this sort of work 3 months then back to low reps, high weight.

I also think cable cross-overs are very useful in conflict with the post above. I also do flies and incline press among others.

I actually find doing high reps to be very useful for muscle building but I also think strength is equally important. I know everyone has their own thoughts about type 1/2 fibers and different types of training but after doing a lot of strength training over the years I've found volume training to be brilliant for muscle growth, possibly because I did strength training alone for so long.

I think ultimately genetics plays a big part with muscle building. I don't think I could ever be a bodybuilder for instance as my shape just isn't right for it or at least a successful one.

Lee

I’ve heard that HGH can do all sorts of things to make up for 'bad' genetics.

[TheJimi]

Ordinary_Chap said:

It's taken me years to build a decentish chest. Everything grew far faster than my chest (which you'd expect) but my chest just didn't seem to grow.

I actually found very high reps, exhaustion sets and drop sets caused a lot of growth.

So I may do 60-80kg for 20 reps x2 then 120kg x 8 for 3 sets and then back to a set of 60kg to failure for another 2 sets. I do this sort of work 3 months then back to low reps, high weight.

I also think cable cross-overs are very useful in conflict with the post above. I also do flies and incline press among others.

I actually find doing high reps to be very useful for muscle building but I also think strength is equally important. I know everyone has their own thoughts about type 1/2 fibers and different types of training but after doing a lot of strength training over the years I've found volume training to be brilliant for muscle growth, possibly because I did strength training alone for so long.

I think ultimately genetics plays a big part with muscle building. I don't think I could ever be a bodybuilder for instance as my shape just isn't right for it or at least a successful one.

Lee

Good post.

I'm a big believer in building a good foundation using strength training, then if size is desired, switching to the higher volume / rep stuff.

When I first started training 9 years ago, I had zero knowledge and went along with the generic program by the local gym instructor, which was basically loads of 3 x 10, and loads of "isolation" type stuff.

It wasn't a waste of time per-se, but knowing what I know now, I have no doubt that starting off one something like SL 5x5, getting a decent level of strength THEN going to the higher rep stuff would have served me far better.

(in terms of increasing size)

[burwoodman]

Hoofy said:

Which are you closest to?

That's damn interesting. I read a study that uses this BF% , height and weight to ascertain whether an individual is natural or on roids. I was surprised to read that (height in cm-98) @BF 4% is the absolute maximum one can achieve naturally. So if you were 180cm tall you are looking at 82kg ripped @ 4% BF. What does it say for the guys coming in at 120 lol