Complaining to a hospital
Discussion
Easy question - should a hospital discuss a patient's situation with anybody other than the patient themselves?
The reason I ask is that my OH was due to go into hospital in a few weeks for an operation but was advised by letter that the operation had to be postponed. Annoying yes but I asked my OH to ring the hospital to express her disappointment which she was going to do later today. However, her Mum has just told her that she has spoken to the hospital and has got the appointment rearranged for a week later!
I know the main issue is my interfering m-i-l but surely the hospital should talk to no-one about the operation but my OH. Breach of confidentiality and all that. And apparently she did tell the hospital that she was ringing about her daughter.
The reason I ask is that my OH was due to go into hospital in a few weeks for an operation but was advised by letter that the operation had to be postponed. Annoying yes but I asked my OH to ring the hospital to express her disappointment which she was going to do later today. However, her Mum has just told her that she has spoken to the hospital and has got the appointment rearranged for a week later!
I know the main issue is my interfering m-i-l but surely the hospital should talk to no-one about the operation but my OH. Breach of confidentiality and all that. And apparently she did tell the hospital that she was ringing about her daughter.
Certainly not about details of the condition. Was that what happened, or did your MIL say that her daughter's operation with Mr. X on date Y has been postponed (no details other than those MIL supplied) and they looked at bookings and made another for another date (not necessarily discussing medical details at all)?
You were going to complain about the delay, your MIL got onto them quicker than your OH and got an early slot for the postponed operation, which is presumably what you wanted.
It sounds as if your issue is with your MIL and would be best addressed to her. If however you don't want to do that, but just want to complain to someone else, the hospital will have a section of the website giving details of how to complain, when you get there, there will be leaflets inviting you to complain, and a complaints department who will get onto everyone involved (probably booking clerks in this case), make them fill in forms, send you an apology signed by the CE, tell you how to take it further, offer meetings.. and so on, right up to the Ombudsman.
Alternatively, pay several thousand pounds to have it done privately, probably on the date you agree with them. If anything isn't to your satisfaction then the independent sector has complaints procedures too..
That still doesn't sort out the MIL!
You were going to complain about the delay, your MIL got onto them quicker than your OH and got an early slot for the postponed operation, which is presumably what you wanted.
It sounds as if your issue is with your MIL and would be best addressed to her. If however you don't want to do that, but just want to complain to someone else, the hospital will have a section of the website giving details of how to complain, when you get there, there will be leaflets inviting you to complain, and a complaints department who will get onto everyone involved (probably booking clerks in this case), make them fill in forms, send you an apology signed by the CE, tell you how to take it further, offer meetings.. and so on, right up to the Ombudsman.
Alternatively, pay several thousand pounds to have it done privately, probably on the date you agree with them. If anything isn't to your satisfaction then the independent sector has complaints procedures too..
That still doesn't sort out the MIL!
Edited by Revisitph on Friday 21st March 17:52
My O/H has phoned hospitals on my behalf (just as your mother in law did), spending a couple of hours getting through to various departments. By doing so she has managed to get my appointment for scans brought forward from June to yesterday (I have prostate cancer and a heart condition).
I've also spoken to hospitals on her behalf to make a complaint when she was in a ward and her medications weren't administered correctly (O/H suffers from epilepsy) so it seems talking to someone on behalf of the patient is accepted practice and why not if it's in the patient's interests and solves problems? I can't see an issue with that at all.
I've also spoken to hospitals on her behalf to make a complaint when she was in a ward and her medications weren't administered correctly (O/H suffers from epilepsy) so it seems talking to someone on behalf of the patient is accepted practice and why not if it's in the patient's interests and solves problems? I can't see an issue with that at all.
I'm a Student Paramedic.
As part of my initial training, I have had to read / review / be tested on, all the NHS systems of 'Information Governance.'
Put simply, this means the use, treatment, and processing of patient data. Basically, any and all data relating to patients is totally confidential, sacrosanct and extremely well protected.
As Paramedics (and this applies to ALL NHS staff) we have to be unbelievably careful - to the point of risking instant dismissal for a breach of confidentiality - with any data which relates to a patient.
I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
If people have managed to discuss patient care and data via the phone with a hospital, in the manner in which has already been suggested in the posts above - then that is highly irregular, and the employees doing so are basically risking their positions in doing that.
As part of my initial training, I have had to read / review / be tested on, all the NHS systems of 'Information Governance.'
Put simply, this means the use, treatment, and processing of patient data. Basically, any and all data relating to patients is totally confidential, sacrosanct and extremely well protected.
As Paramedics (and this applies to ALL NHS staff) we have to be unbelievably careful - to the point of risking instant dismissal for a breach of confidentiality - with any data which relates to a patient.
I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
If people have managed to discuss patient care and data via the phone with a hospital, in the manner in which has already been suggested in the posts above - then that is highly irregular, and the employees doing so are basically risking their positions in doing that.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
If people have managed to discuss patient care and data via the phone with a hospital, in the manner in which has already been suggested in the posts above - then that is highly irregular, and the employees doing so are basically risking their positions in doing that.
And thank God they do. For every case where information is gained for improper use I would guess /suggest there are hundreds of frustrated people trying to go about their business making their (collective) lives easier.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
I'm a Student Paramedic.
I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
I daily discuss patient details with people other than the patient face to face, by (secure NHS.net) email, by letter and over the telephone. One readily establishes that one is communicating with someone appropriate. If the rule given above was followed the system would collapse instantly and people would die in droves! I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
Three examples:
1. A severely injured and unconscious patient is being brought in to the ED. Presumably your senior paramedic colleagues are prepared to discuss their status with the ED over the ambulance communication system and the trauma team needs to come down to the department to meet them. The patient cannot discuss their case and the telephone is the appropriate mechanism to summons the team from the wards or theatres where they may be working.
2. After treatment that patient is transferred to ITU, unconscious. Are the nursing and medical staff not to speak to their N.O.K?
3. A patient is seen in outpatient clinic. The consultant dictates a letter to his secretary and they type and send it to the GP, whose clerical staff put it into the appropriate notes and bring it to the GP's attention.
There are also some very rare cases in which public safety over-rules confidentiality and discussion with the police or a judge is appropriate. [Edited to add, remembering that this is PH, rarely it is necessary to notify the DVLA that someone is unfit to drive if they have refused (or e.g. because of dementia forget) to notify voluntarily and are still driving, a menace to themselves and others].
Edited by Revisitph on Wednesday 26th March 07:16
Edited by Revisitph on Wednesday 26th March 07:18
We (wife and I) have often 'phoned hospitals acting on behalf of other people to drive appointments etc.
Now and again you get someone who queries your authority, but not very often.
Most people are passive about dealing with hospitals but the thing many people don't realise is that if you (or a loved one) is on a series of tests / investigations / consultations etc, you can make a big difference to the time scales by getting on the case and chasing people.
Sounds like the OP is embarrased that his MIL was able to get something done.
Now and again you get someone who queries your authority, but not very often.
Most people are passive about dealing with hospitals but the thing many people don't realise is that if you (or a loved one) is on a series of tests / investigations / consultations etc, you can make a big difference to the time scales by getting on the case and chasing people.
Sounds like the OP is embarrased that his MIL was able to get something done.
Revisitph said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
I'm a Student Paramedic.
I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
I daily discuss patient details with people other than the patient face to face, by (secure NHS.net) email, by letter and over the telephone. One readily establishes that one is communicating with someone appropriate. If the rule given above was followed the system would collapse instantly and people would die in droves! I can confirm that my training totally precludes the sharing of information and patient data with ANYONE other than the patient. I can certainly say that discussing patient data OVER THE PHONE is a total and complete breach of NHS guidelines, and would be viewed with grave seriousness, should it be seen that anyone did so.
Three examples:
1. A severely injured and unconscious patient is being brought in to the ED. Presumably your senior paramedic colleagues are prepared to discuss their status with the ED over the ambulance communication system and the trauma team needs to come down to the department to meet them. The patient cannot discuss their case and the telephone is the appropriate mechanism to summons the team from the wards or theatres where they may be working.
2. After treatment that patient is transferred to ITU, unconscious. Are the nursing and medical staff not to speak to their N.O.K?
3. A patient is seen in outpatient clinic. The consultant dictates a letter to his secretary and they type and send it to the GP, whose clerical staff put it into the appropriate notes and bring it to the GP's attention.
There are also some very rare cases in which public safety over-rules confidentiality and discussion with the police or a judge is appropriate. [Edited to add, remembering that this is PH, rarely it is necessary to notify the DVLA that someone is unfit to drive if they have refused (or e.g. because of dementia forget) to notify voluntarily and are still driving, a menace to themselves and others].
Edited by Revisitph on Wednesday 26th March 07:16
Edited by Revisitph on Wednesday 26th March 07:18
I've already seen plenty of examples, like you have cited above, where discretionary discussion is probably far more helpful, as far as patient care is concerned.
I guess it's another situation where NHS rules and common sense clash (oh, haven't I seen that like everywhere else already?!!)
But what I DID point out is that, as I said, we've been threatened with almost pain of death that to do so, regardless of the situation and circumstances, is a total and complete no-no. Even if it is clear that on any particular case, it would actually be helpful for the patient.
I suppose it comes down to the fact that some staff are happy to risk their professional registration in order to do anything and everything that they feel is helpful for their patient. It's rules versus peoples lives, health and wellbeing. These things don't always mix well together...
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