Utter despair at Voodoo supplements- Am I alone?
Discussion
A rant.
This is Carol Voderman. Carol is generally perceived as being a clever person despite only having been proven to be good at mental arithmatic. Much like Dustin Hoffman's character in Rainman. She none the less provides the friendly and credible intellectual face to this weapon's grade bulls
t.Beyond the obvious benefits of a balanced diet, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to support the grand claims of helping various organs. They certainly aren't referenced on the box. Nor can I find them in publications.
It then goes to state the merits of ingesting anti-oxidants. These have been a very successful idea of marketeers over the years but is in fact bulls
t as well. Whilst anti-oxidants are used within the body they are not only not proven to work in this manner, they have also been disproven to work. Almost beyond reproach. Infact I actually recall a paper in sick patients where they actually died faster, although the data in this paper did not reach significance it is actually still substantiated more than any claim on the box of the product.This obviously is just the thin end of the wedge. But just like Glucosamine, Garlic capsules, vitamin C, traditional Chinese medicine, homeopathy, Oesteopathy, or the power of prayer, it is infact all b
ks. They don't work anywhere but in your mind. [Insert caveat about Osteopathy being found to be equal to proper treatment in one single paper here. And second caveat about miniscule requirement of vitamin C here].I don't think it takes that much intelligence to know when someone is lying to you when they can't prove their claims. I understand if you're dying and you've reached the end of conventional medicine you may just want to take a punt on something in desperation. I get it. But this is just f
king moronic.But people volunteer themselves in droves to hand money over to these arse holes. Holland and Barratt made 74 million in profit last year. That's 74 million pounds belonging to desperate people buying magic f
king potions. Are we really this stupid? Do we really not understand critical thinking when it comes to our health? Are we too f
king stupid to realise that taking something as you get better does not mean it has made you better? Or that if you can't prove something works, despite repeatedly trying, it doesn't work?Clearly I need some St. John's wort, or ginseng, or green tea to calm my frustration...
Welcome to the world of supplements! I really do think the industry needs to be regulated much more strictly.
I'm into the fitness side of things and the claims really do get rather tedious. Of course it's the consumers fault for being so naive to buy into it in the first place and so is a vicious circle...
I'm into the fitness side of things and the claims really do get rather tedious. Of course it's the consumers fault for being so naive to buy into it in the first place and so is a vicious circle...
ewenm said:
Everyone wants a shortcut...
This is true.Other half asked me about the testing for IBS. I said it's a disease of exclusion, so a GI specialist or similarly qualified medic tries concoctions of diets and drugs, before being forced to give, and pass you an IBS sticker. Which is of no real consolation as it is actually a very unpleasant, and sadly debilitating at it's extremes, disease.
My partner tells me her sister was going to "Napiers" a notorious voodoo hut ironically outside Edinburgh University. To get tested for various allergens. This is not CPA registered laboratory, they're also not qualified either as medics, or scientists, if they were they couldn't possibly sell this s
t.So I rang the IBS network, in case I was misunderstanding. They pointed out that no, these tests conducted are not validated, and do not work. That it is pure charlatanism, and people were looking for quick fix.
I'm not allowed mention this, lest I damage the placebo effect she currently enjoys, but they charged her 90 for a magic test. Diagnosed her with a phantom intolerance, and obviously also provided her with all manner of pretend supplements, which even if they worked would be insanely priced. You can buy drugs that actually work, complex ones, for less than this stuff.
f
k the MHRA regulators and the law. What the fk happened to common decency? Just because someone is naive and desperate at what point did it become acceptable to steal from them? Holland and Barret. 74 Million in profit. After every rotten magic pill was paid for and the brain dead staff paid their tuppence there was still 74 million left. The great irony being evil pharma actually make most of the stuff, so obviously they aren't threatened.Meanwhil boots sell magic water, and UV lights that magically get rid of pollen. It's just beyond the pale.
Prof Prolapse said:
This obviously is just the thin end of the wedge. But just like Glucosamine, Garlic capsules, vitamin C, traditional Chinese medicine, homeopathy, Oesteopathy, or the power of prayer, it is infact all bks. They don't work anywhere but in your mind. [Insert caveat about Osteopathy being found to be equal to proper treatment in one single paper here. And second caveat about miniscule requirement of vitamin C here].
I wouldn't get to het uo about vitamin C as scurvy is a growing problem in the UK apparently.ks. They don't work anywhere but in your mind. [Insert caveat about Osteopathy being found to be equal to proper treatment in one single paper here. And second caveat about miniscule requirement of vitamin C here].The supplement industry is to be completely honest is a total joke. Especially in body building, just because people are paid to market a product really does not mean that if you take it you will look like them.
Same thing goes for general supplements I.E. vitamin tablets etc the best way to get them into your body s to eat food that contains said vitamins and minerals. You can not and never will be able to beat eating proper food compared to supplementation.
Same thing goes for general supplements I.E. vitamin tablets etc the best way to get them into your body s to eat food that contains said vitamins and minerals. You can not and never will be able to beat eating proper food compared to supplementation.
Prof Prolapse said:
That's why I carefully added the caveat you have quoted.
Also, have you ever heard someone say "you better take some vitamin C for that scurvy"? Or have they instead said "for your cold?"
The latter of course being both vastly more common and simultaneously utter bks.
When someone starts talking about megadoses (either by name, or by suggesting >1g/day intake) you know they're talking a load of bAlso, have you ever heard someone say "you better take some vitamin C for that scurvy"? Or have they instead said "for your cold?"
The latter of course being both vastly more common and simultaneously utter b
ks.ks.Agree it's dross and Vorderman should know better...however I think if folk could find solutions when visiting their GP, they wouldn't go elsewhere.
In most cases the only tablet I've been given by GP's is a FO one. There is one GP I visited once that was actually doing his job properly. I was amazed and couldn't stop thanking him. He just looked at me weird!
In most cases the only tablet I've been given by GP's is a FO one. There is one GP I visited once that was actually doing his job properly. I was amazed and couldn't stop thanking him. He just looked at me weird!
Whats wrong with krill oil? You can get fish oil (omacor) on the nhs so it can't be that bad.
I'd rather take melatonin than anything a GP would prescribe for sleep problems.
I get the impression that if an alternative remedy is proved more effective than a prescription medicine, it is outlawed so all we're left with is snake oil.
I'd rather take melatonin than anything a GP would prescribe for sleep problems.
I get the impression that if an alternative remedy is proved more effective than a prescription medicine, it is outlawed so all we're left with is snake oil.
Things that work often become medicines (either prescription or OTC) as then they are regulated. If something has a real effect then having it as unregulated "alternative medicine" can be quite dangerous due to concern of overdose or medicine interactions.
Still not sure why melatonin isn't available more easily though, you can buy it in any pharmacy in the US, but it's totally unavailable here.
Still not sure why melatonin isn't available more easily though, you can buy it in any pharmacy in the US, but it's totally unavailable here.
It used to be available. I recall buying it on Amazon. Last time I looked, it was not available.
ChasW said:
It amazes me how seemingly responsible, intelligent celebs take the endorsement shilling for such questionable products. I see Michael Parkinson endorsing poor value life assurance schemes and balding ex-sportsmen with new hair!
What is wrong with new hair?Richyboy said:
I get the impression that if an alternative remedy is proved more effective than a prescription medicine, it is outlawed so all we're left with is snake oil.
In my experience the opposite is true. As I said earlier the first thing to remember is that most alternative remedies are owned by companies who are part of big pharmaceuticals, and the mark up is almost certainly much higher than many drugs as there are no development costs. So claims of using their influence to induce bias are unlikely.The MHRA will only generally ban a licensed substance is because it's risk/benefit ratio is well off. I.e. reduces a cough, but increases your risks of forms of cancer ten fold.
The MHRA also allow alternative medicines under exemptions, they are only restricted in their claims. I.e. they say "traditional used to treat", because it is illegal, ironically, to suggest it is a genuine alternative to medicines. This is why you should not believe any product carrying this statement. It is an admission they have never been able to prove it.
Even homeopathic remedies are granted an exemption, assuming they are not prescribed for anything but self limiting conditions. So there is no incentive for the patient to taking their real medicine. So as a legal requirement, the patient takes them at the same time as they are getting better, and voila, magic potion works.
Traditional Chinese Medicines (TCMs) were also exempted for a long time, although they were trying to change this last I spoke to one of them so I'm unsure now. They are exempted on the basis of the way the drugs are mixed on site.
Were TCMs pre-packed the lack of any quality control, combined with unknown (and often high) levels of steroids, other misc hormones, and even in some instances opiates, would mean they were almost certainly banned and most likely ceased and destroyed. They essentially and designed to make you feel better, but simultaneously risking your health, and certainly damaging it in the long term.
Oh and "no profit no research" is untrue also. University hospitals will research products which, despite having no commercial value, may improve patient care and reduce costs within the organisation. So they do research interesting compounds, I myself have worked on one which will hopefully soon be used in patients with bone cancers.
So I think claims of bias, excessive regulatory control, and lack of research opportunities are all untrue. If it cannot justify it's claims, you should be deeply skeptical.
Ironically I sit here now at a research unit in Glasgow, looking out at the "Homeopathic Clinic", paid for, to the best of my knowledge a combination of taxpayers, and lunatics, money.
The NHS will be happy to prescribe a drug which is not proven to work as long as it is cheaper than the alternative. The most common reason is your doctor does not believe it will work, but in the absence of an alternative hopes the placebo effect will. As doctors take certain oaths however they cannot give you a placebo. So this is often, but not always, their way out. Prescribe a none-drug, and see how the patient improves.
Placebo effect is real, it's a scientific fact, but within controlled/proffessional medicine there are huge ethical issues about prescribing a placebo, which in many cases and for many illnesses can be as effective as "real" medicine and in reality quite a lot of "real medicines real effects" are placebo effect, so the supplement industry and alternative therapies take advantage of the placebo effect - patients feel better at the end of the day - it's not really worth getting angry over!
Amazing and chilling placebo effect story... http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/09/...
Amazing and chilling placebo effect story... http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/09/...
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