Herniated disc - L5 S1 - is there a gentle solution?
Discussion
Hey,
I am hoping for some useful advice - I have just been to my final NHS assessment of my back and came away discharged but I know myself and my back is not fixed - not even close.
In early 2014 I started having a 'tightness' in my lower back which my masseur / chiropractor was able to work with and I put down to me smashing some pretty hard classes at my gym 3 or 4 times a week. This grew worse and worse until july / Aug of 2014 where with some crippling shifts at work (in duration - I only sit at a desk) left me in very considerable pain and immobility.
Proper help was sought in late 2014 and I began more assessments. An MRI was included and I began excersises to build mobility in the back up again as it was effectively seized solid.
It was decided then I had a weak core - which I found odd given the amount and type of excersises I was doing and this had led to a prolapsed disc. I went with it though and went with the mobility excersises.
Today I had the chance to see it and it is (was at the time) a prolapsed about a third of its total size from L5 to S1, down the spine. and was a very obvious issue. Scary just how much of the disc was out from where it should have been. From looking at volume I think it mid thirty percent.
Fast forward to now - it no longer hurts to sneeze but I know there is still an issue as the slightest thing I do that is not utterly sedendary will cause an inflammation - the person I spoke to today wasn't able to help - but I know that a lot of PHers suffer at least some back pain. Have any of you managed to fix this rather than me just buying a pilates DVD?
I walk a good 80 minutes a day but the flip to that is that I do sit at a desk which I recognise does not help.
I suppose what I am asking is that does anyone actually have any good news stories or mechanisms that might work? I havent been to gym classes in 18 months and feel like the NHS have done thier bit by making the problem "not chronic" so now I am open to ideas? I'd love to be more active - but at the same time these things take a second to manifest and a million years to fix..
I am hoping for some useful advice - I have just been to my final NHS assessment of my back and came away discharged but I know myself and my back is not fixed - not even close.
In early 2014 I started having a 'tightness' in my lower back which my masseur / chiropractor was able to work with and I put down to me smashing some pretty hard classes at my gym 3 or 4 times a week. This grew worse and worse until july / Aug of 2014 where with some crippling shifts at work (in duration - I only sit at a desk) left me in very considerable pain and immobility.
Proper help was sought in late 2014 and I began more assessments. An MRI was included and I began excersises to build mobility in the back up again as it was effectively seized solid.
It was decided then I had a weak core - which I found odd given the amount and type of excersises I was doing and this had led to a prolapsed disc. I went with it though and went with the mobility excersises.
Today I had the chance to see it and it is (was at the time) a prolapsed about a third of its total size from L5 to S1, down the spine. and was a very obvious issue. Scary just how much of the disc was out from where it should have been. From looking at volume I think it mid thirty percent.
Fast forward to now - it no longer hurts to sneeze but I know there is still an issue as the slightest thing I do that is not utterly sedendary will cause an inflammation - the person I spoke to today wasn't able to help - but I know that a lot of PHers suffer at least some back pain. Have any of you managed to fix this rather than me just buying a pilates DVD?
I walk a good 80 minutes a day but the flip to that is that I do sit at a desk which I recognise does not help.
I suppose what I am asking is that does anyone actually have any good news stories or mechanisms that might work? I havent been to gym classes in 18 months and feel like the NHS have done thier bit by making the problem "not chronic" so now I am open to ideas? I'd love to be more active - but at the same time these things take a second to manifest and a million years to fix..
A prolapsed disk isn't going to fix itself overnight, its a long road to recovery.
I had a prolapsed disk (L4/L5) and it caused me years of misery. I tried lots of things, chiropractor, physios, gym routines all with varying degrees of success and temporary relief, but ultimately I'd always end up breaking down again, flat on the floor in agony.
One of my friends who also suffered really bad back problems recommended I go see these guys http://www.marylebonephysio.com/
I was encouraged to do this by the fact my friend was told he wouldn't /shouldn't' be running anymore by NHS ... and he's now doing IronMan type events, running 20miles a day etc.
The physio's started out with traditional core exercises, stretching, massage and then moved into Pilates. I committed myself to exercise and stretch at least 3 times a week and eventually the pain started to go away and I started to forget about my back issues. I cant put my finger on it but these guys put a belief back in me that I could get better.
I'd say it took at least 2 years from when i started seeing the marylebone physio's (Chris) to feeling back to normal and physically fit.
I religiously keep up the 3 times a week minimum gym program and fingers crossed I've been in good shape for the best part of 3 years now.
I guess what I'm saying is just stick at it. It will get better.
I had a prolapsed disk (L4/L5) and it caused me years of misery. I tried lots of things, chiropractor, physios, gym routines all with varying degrees of success and temporary relief, but ultimately I'd always end up breaking down again, flat on the floor in agony.
One of my friends who also suffered really bad back problems recommended I go see these guys http://www.marylebonephysio.com/
I was encouraged to do this by the fact my friend was told he wouldn't /shouldn't' be running anymore by NHS ... and he's now doing IronMan type events, running 20miles a day etc.
The physio's started out with traditional core exercises, stretching, massage and then moved into Pilates. I committed myself to exercise and stretch at least 3 times a week and eventually the pain started to go away and I started to forget about my back issues. I cant put my finger on it but these guys put a belief back in me that I could get better.
I'd say it took at least 2 years from when i started seeing the marylebone physio's (Chris) to feeling back to normal and physically fit.
I religiously keep up the 3 times a week minimum gym program and fingers crossed I've been in good shape for the best part of 3 years now.
I guess what I'm saying is just stick at it. It will get better.
Hi,
Sorry to hear of your disc problem.
I started with the same thing years ago but couldn't rely on being fit, as you can.
The consultant first said there's two ways it could go. Given the right physio and chiro type treatment and time, the prolapse could recede and all would be well. Then, he looked at the scans and said "That needs surgery."
The potted story then...
Heavy duty painkillers - made me ill.
Physio with acupuncture - didn't help.
Dorsal root ganglion injections - the first and second reduced the pain by 60% for about 3 months. The third, at three levels, didn't work.
Microdiscectomy 1 - made it better, for a while. The pain returned after 2 months.Scans showed internal scarring.
Microdiscectomy 2 - included dissecting out the scar tissue, removing more prolapsed disc material and removal of bone (laminotomy) to make room around the crushed sciatic nerve.
Scarring reoccurred,leading to a...
Neurostimulator implant - fitting an 'internal tens machine', wired to an electrode in my spinal canal. The stimulation was working in my chest because the electrode was one vertebra too high...ooops!
Operation 4 - aďded a second electode, in the right place. The sciatic nerve pain is now modified by electric shocks. I can manage with Paracetamol and a walking stick. It's good as it will ever be but my walking (hobbling) is very limited.
That's failed back surgery for you. But you have a head start, recovery-wise. Having infinitely better core fitness, you might get away without surgery, or with a textbook microdiscectomy. In any event, the DRG injections helped me. Each was a 30-min theatre job, with just a little bit of local anaesthetic.
HTH and the very best of luck.
Sorry to hear of your disc problem.
I started with the same thing years ago but couldn't rely on being fit, as you can.
The consultant first said there's two ways it could go. Given the right physio and chiro type treatment and time, the prolapse could recede and all would be well. Then, he looked at the scans and said "That needs surgery."
The potted story then...
Heavy duty painkillers - made me ill.
Physio with acupuncture - didn't help.
Dorsal root ganglion injections - the first and second reduced the pain by 60% for about 3 months. The third, at three levels, didn't work.
Microdiscectomy 1 - made it better, for a while. The pain returned after 2 months.Scans showed internal scarring.
Microdiscectomy 2 - included dissecting out the scar tissue, removing more prolapsed disc material and removal of bone (laminotomy) to make room around the crushed sciatic nerve.
Scarring reoccurred,leading to a...
Neurostimulator implant - fitting an 'internal tens machine', wired to an electrode in my spinal canal. The stimulation was working in my chest because the electrode was one vertebra too high...ooops!
Operation 4 - aďded a second electode, in the right place. The sciatic nerve pain is now modified by electric shocks. I can manage with Paracetamol and a walking stick. It's good as it will ever be but my walking (hobbling) is very limited.
That's failed back surgery for you. But you have a head start, recovery-wise. Having infinitely better core fitness, you might get away without surgery, or with a textbook microdiscectomy. In any event, the DRG injections helped me. Each was a 30-min theatre job, with just a little bit of local anaesthetic.
HTH and the very best of luck.
yowsers - thanks for the replies guys - I guess I should consider myself - if not lucky - then at least luckier!
As it is I am hopeful that the disc can be encouraged to start behaving itself without the need for anything invasive - though I still have no idea why it would have happened in the first place. Apparently it was because of 'weak core muscles' - sorry - but I'm not going for that when I was in the gym/swimming so much. I suppose it doesnt matter really - its more important to concern myself with fixing it and the above seems to echo what I have found online also. A good scheme of stretches / pilates / yoga is clearly the way to go so Ill have a good look for a menu of excersises today as well as trying a few places for classes locally. I was doing pilates at my previous gym but never really got on with the instructor which was a shame - but there will be others I am sure......
As it is I am hopeful that the disc can be encouraged to start behaving itself without the need for anything invasive - though I still have no idea why it would have happened in the first place. Apparently it was because of 'weak core muscles' - sorry - but I'm not going for that when I was in the gym/swimming so much. I suppose it doesnt matter really - its more important to concern myself with fixing it and the above seems to echo what I have found online also. A good scheme of stretches / pilates / yoga is clearly the way to go so Ill have a good look for a menu of excersises today as well as trying a few places for classes locally. I was doing pilates at my previous gym but never really got on with the instructor which was a shame - but there will be others I am sure......
In case you haven't yet researched it, here's the gen on disc structure and how it fails.
Each intervertebral disc consists of two parts. The outer part is a ring of fibrocartilage, the annulus fibrosus. Inside is a jelly-like substance, the nucleus pulposa.The outer ring contains the inner substance.
A slipped disc hasn't slipped anywhere. The aunnulus fibrosus develops a split or crack, allowing the nucleus material to bulge out, hence the use of 'prolapse'.
Apparently, there are many reasons why this can happen. Prior strain from unwise lifting, physical damage from, say, a fall or sports injury; genetics can play a part, as can smoking, by affecting the blood supply.
It's rare for a disc to detach from the vertebrae concerned. However, mobility and 'shock absorbing' are affected. However, the extruded inner can damage neighbouring nerves by both mechanical wear/pressure and its chemical makeup.
Just an aside, surgeons call such a prolapsed disc a 'jelly doughnut'.
Each intervertebral disc consists of two parts. The outer part is a ring of fibrocartilage, the annulus fibrosus. Inside is a jelly-like substance, the nucleus pulposa.The outer ring contains the inner substance.
A slipped disc hasn't slipped anywhere. The aunnulus fibrosus develops a split or crack, allowing the nucleus material to bulge out, hence the use of 'prolapse'.
Apparently, there are many reasons why this can happen. Prior strain from unwise lifting, physical damage from, say, a fall or sports injury; genetics can play a part, as can smoking, by affecting the blood supply.
It's rare for a disc to detach from the vertebrae concerned. However, mobility and 'shock absorbing' are affected. However, the extruded inner can damage neighbouring nerves by both mechanical wear/pressure and its chemical makeup.
Just an aside, surgeons call such a prolapsed disc a 'jelly doughnut'.
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