Trust Me, I'm a Doctor! Interesting study on Protein........
Discussion
I found this quite interesting. It seems that these supplements are a waste of time! Did anyone else see this??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5qYndwd1n...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5qYndwd1n...
I think this one comment is all that needed to be read..
"What do the experts recommend?
If you’re healthy and eating a balanced diet then don’t waste your money on whey protein supplements in the hope that they will allow you to put on more muscle"
Erm. Yup.
So many people fail to latch on to the most simple word 'supplement' as that's exactly what it is.
"What do the experts recommend?
If you’re healthy and eating a balanced diet then don’t waste your money on whey protein supplements in the hope that they will allow you to put on more muscle"
Erm. Yup.
So many people fail to latch on to the most simple word 'supplement' as that's exactly what it is.
I think most folk that take Protein as a 'supplement', get a placebo effect, rather than benefit. I'm not saying all, as there will be folk with a poor diet that will benefit to a degree, but only by getting the correct amount into their system.
I have to admit, that I use Protein, but also have a great diet, so I am under no illusion that it is wasted on me. I work offshore, and rather than have a roll with sausage or bacon on it for my morning tea break, or cake(s)in the afternoon, I will drink a shake as a replacement. Is it doing me any good? I very much doubt it, but I think it's better than the other options, and I actually quite like the flavours these days! Buying wisely then it's not that costly, it's when you go to some of the fancy suppliers promoting an Arnold Schwarzenegger type physique after 5 minutes of using their 'gear' that it gets expensive.
I have to admit, that I use Protein, but also have a great diet, so I am under no illusion that it is wasted on me. I work offshore, and rather than have a roll with sausage or bacon on it for my morning tea break, or cake(s)in the afternoon, I will drink a shake as a replacement. Is it doing me any good? I very much doubt it, but I think it's better than the other options, and I actually quite like the flavours these days! Buying wisely then it's not that costly, it's when you go to some of the fancy suppliers promoting an Arnold Schwarzenegger type physique after 5 minutes of using their 'gear' that it gets expensive.
rash_decision said:
Is it doing me any good? I very much doubt it, but I think it's better than the other options, and I actually quite like the flavours these days!
Apart from being a multi dollar industry designed to part a fool from his money shakes also have a detrimental effect on the digestive system. Our stomachs and bowels have developed to handle fibre.rash_decision said:
So apart from me being a fool, they are doing me harm??
the Gut flora requires a variety of different food stuffs to stay healthy and this has an impact on the immune system as well. Long term use of protein shakes could potentially cause issues as they do not offer enough variety to a natural diet. this article pretty much backs it up, but as anything needs more study.
http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Gut-healt...
As the article states gut flora can have an impact on autism and other health issues.
The problem is Broscience is so unproven.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 7th January 12:07
rash_decision said:
popeyewhite said:
Apart from being a multi dollar industry designed to part a fool from his money shakes also have a detrimental effect on the digestive system. Our stomachs and bowels have developed to handle fibre.
So apart from me being a fool, they are doing me harm??
The human stomach has evolved to digest fibre. There is no fibre in a protein drink. It won't do you any more harm than give you an upset stomach/the squits though.
popeyewhite said:
It's an adage, not meant towards you personally!
The human stomach has evolved to digest fibre. There is no fibre in a protein drink. It won't do you any more harm than give you an upset stomach/the squits though.
I hadn't taken it personally, I am in agreement with the 'fool' aspect of buying protein in a belief that it's doing wonders. The human stomach has evolved to digest fibre. There is no fibre in a protein drink. It won't do you any more harm than give you an upset stomach/the squits though.
I pay roughly £17-20 every other month for a pouch, so less than a chocolate bar would cost me on a daily basis. Others I know pay circa £60 monthly for a plastic tub with a huge bicep on the front!
I'm guessing that it's more upsetting for the digestive system if you're one of these people who lives by them! Personally, I have one most morning tea breaks, and the odd afternoon if I can be bothered making one, but overall my diet is very varied so probably not that upsetting for the likes of myself.
Conversely, there are folk that I work with who have them every meal, and swear they are the be all and end all of their diet!
The thing is the study is full of problems.
The rest of their diet was not controlled. This pretty much totally invalidates what a protein supplement does.
Timing of the supplement wasn't controlled - if they are it after their dinner it's obviously going to be much less effective than using it as a snack between meals.
If the supplement was taken with other foods may have a difference, and wasn't controlled. I.e. it has been shown that consuming with carbohydrates, whey protein is used more effectively to recover.
Activity level other than the prescribed training wasn't controlled. Again, pretty much invalidates the results.
Level of participant's starting athleticism (elite athlete or sedentary) hasn't been mentioned, and therefore as is cannot be used as a measure as there may be significant differences between elite, sub elite, recreational and sedentary individuals.
The use of only 20 participants is a very small sample. When actual muscle size increases as it did in the study...
"Lean mass increased from 52.18kg to 52.73kg in the placebo group (an increase of 1.05%), and increased from 57.67kg to 58.34kg in the protein group (an increase of 1.16%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.41).
Muscle thickness increased from 18.98cm to 19.57cm in the placebo group (an increase of 3.11%), and increased from 17.98cm to 18.99cm in the protein group (an increase of 5.62%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.30)."
The lack of a significant difference when there was an actual difference can simply be put down to a small sample size.
So in short - Protein shakes may or may not have an effect on muscle growth, but the results of this study indicating either way are about as useful as the bro in a vest at the gym telling you that they're [shakes] amazing in every way.
The rest of their diet was not controlled. This pretty much totally invalidates what a protein supplement does.
Timing of the supplement wasn't controlled - if they are it after their dinner it's obviously going to be much less effective than using it as a snack between meals.
If the supplement was taken with other foods may have a difference, and wasn't controlled. I.e. it has been shown that consuming with carbohydrates, whey protein is used more effectively to recover.
Activity level other than the prescribed training wasn't controlled. Again, pretty much invalidates the results.
Level of participant's starting athleticism (elite athlete or sedentary) hasn't been mentioned, and therefore as is cannot be used as a measure as there may be significant differences between elite, sub elite, recreational and sedentary individuals.
The use of only 20 participants is a very small sample. When actual muscle size increases as it did in the study...
"Lean mass increased from 52.18kg to 52.73kg in the placebo group (an increase of 1.05%), and increased from 57.67kg to 58.34kg in the protein group (an increase of 1.16%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.41).
Muscle thickness increased from 18.98cm to 19.57cm in the placebo group (an increase of 3.11%), and increased from 17.98cm to 18.99cm in the protein group (an increase of 5.62%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.30)."
The lack of a significant difference when there was an actual difference can simply be put down to a small sample size.
So in short - Protein shakes may or may not have an effect on muscle growth, but the results of this study indicating either way are about as useful as the bro in a vest at the gym telling you that they're [shakes] amazing in every way.
I think we'll be seeing a lot of these 'studies' over the coming couple of years trying to make fitness be seen as a bad thing, I recently saw a program about how eating clean is bad for you, another on how calorie counting doesn't help with weight loss.
More will be coming unfortunately, as being happy with your body is the next 'fad'
More will be coming unfortunately, as being happy with your body is the next 'fad'
This article is worth a read for the natural bodybuilder. Unless you are on AAS you don't need to consume more than 0.7g/lb of protein.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-o...
• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle once you’re past the novice level as a natural trainee. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64 g/lb.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-o...
• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle once you’re past the novice level as a natural trainee. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64 g/lb.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session.
TheBALDpuma said:
The thing is the study is full of problems.
Probably is but could you tell me where the link to the paper is, or have you read it yourself through another source? TheBALDpuma said:
The lack of a significant difference when there was an actual difference can simply be put down to a small sample size.
Not sure what you mean here? Variance was measured and it revealed little difference between the two groups. There's no reason to suppose the ANOVA would have shown anything else with a much larger sample is there?As an aside, a sample of 24, whilst on the thin side, isn't considered too small for a result to be considered representational. 10 or less and the research's binned, lol.
I agree that this study is completely meaningless.
My view on protein supplements is that if you are getting adequate protein from food (which encompasses timing as well as amount) then they will yield little benefit, if not then they will be useful. Personally I have some on the shelf but only use it when my eating schedule gets messed up or I don't have enough protein in the meal. They're one of those things that often beginners think are the magic bullet that will get them huge and I'm sure they can help but only used correctly at the right times and in conjunction with a proper nutrition plan (I dislike the word diet).
My view on protein supplements is that if you are getting adequate protein from food (which encompasses timing as well as amount) then they will yield little benefit, if not then they will be useful. Personally I have some on the shelf but only use it when my eating schedule gets messed up or I don't have enough protein in the meal. They're one of those things that often beginners think are the magic bullet that will get them huge and I'm sure they can help but only used correctly at the right times and in conjunction with a proper nutrition plan (I dislike the word diet).
TurboHatchback said:
I agree that this study is completely meaningless.
My view on protein supplements is that if you are getting adequate protein from food (which encompasses timing as well as amount) then they will yield little benefit, if not then they will be useful. Personally I have some on the shelf but only use it when my eating schedule gets messed up or I don't have enough protein in the meal. They're one of those things that often beginners think are the magic bullet that will get them huge and I'm sure they can help but only used correctly at the right times and in conjunction with a proper nutrition plan (I dislike the word diet).
I'm the same. I track my calories (I'm a believe in consistency yeilding results more than anything) and if my calories are down or I've not got around 1g per 1lb of protein, i'll have a shake to top it up, rather than (as mentioned above) a sausage roll or a donut!My view on protein supplements is that if you are getting adequate protein from food (which encompasses timing as well as amount) then they will yield little benefit, if not then they will be useful. Personally I have some on the shelf but only use it when my eating schedule gets messed up or I don't have enough protein in the meal. They're one of those things that often beginners think are the magic bullet that will get them huge and I'm sure they can help but only used correctly at the right times and in conjunction with a proper nutrition plan (I dislike the word diet).
My diet is pretty good, so no real concerns, but I certainly believe they have their place - dependent on goals of course.
TheBALDpuma said:
The thing is the study is full of problems.
The rest of their diet was not controlled. This pretty much totally invalidates what a protein supplement does.
Timing of the supplement wasn't controlled - if they are it after their dinner it's obviously going to be much less effective than using it as a snack between meals.
If the supplement was taken with other foods may have a difference, and wasn't controlled. I.e. it has been shown that consuming with carbohydrates, whey protein is used more effectively to recover.
Activity level other than the prescribed training wasn't controlled. Again, pretty much invalidates the results.
Level of participant's starting athleticism (elite athlete or sedentary) hasn't been mentioned, and therefore as is cannot be used as a measure as there may be significant differences between elite, sub elite, recreational and sedentary individuals.
The use of only 20 participants is a very small sample. When actual muscle size increases as it did in the study...
"Lean mass increased from 52.18kg to 52.73kg in the placebo group (an increase of 1.05%), and increased from 57.67kg to 58.34kg in the protein group (an increase of 1.16%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.41).
Muscle thickness increased from 18.98cm to 19.57cm in the placebo group (an increase of 3.11%), and increased from 17.98cm to 18.99cm in the protein group (an increase of 5.62%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.30)."
The lack of a significant difference when there was an actual difference can simply be put down to a small sample size.
So in short - Protein shakes may or may not have an effect on muscle growth, but the results of this study indicating either way are about as useful as the bro in a vest at the gym telling you that they're [shakes] amazing in every way.
This. I looked at the article, results, and whatever else they published, but was left asking many other questions. From that article, the only thing I would give any credit to was the final comments.The rest of their diet was not controlled. This pretty much totally invalidates what a protein supplement does.
Timing of the supplement wasn't controlled - if they are it after their dinner it's obviously going to be much less effective than using it as a snack between meals.
If the supplement was taken with other foods may have a difference, and wasn't controlled. I.e. it has been shown that consuming with carbohydrates, whey protein is used more effectively to recover.
Activity level other than the prescribed training wasn't controlled. Again, pretty much invalidates the results.
Level of participant's starting athleticism (elite athlete or sedentary) hasn't been mentioned, and therefore as is cannot be used as a measure as there may be significant differences between elite, sub elite, recreational and sedentary individuals.
The use of only 20 participants is a very small sample. When actual muscle size increases as it did in the study...
"Lean mass increased from 52.18kg to 52.73kg in the placebo group (an increase of 1.05%), and increased from 57.67kg to 58.34kg in the protein group (an increase of 1.16%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.41).
Muscle thickness increased from 18.98cm to 19.57cm in the placebo group (an increase of 3.11%), and increased from 17.98cm to 18.99cm in the protein group (an increase of 5.62%). The two groups were not significantly different (p=0.30)."
The lack of a significant difference when there was an actual difference can simply be put down to a small sample size.
So in short - Protein shakes may or may not have an effect on muscle growth, but the results of this study indicating either way are about as useful as the bro in a vest at the gym telling you that they're [shakes] amazing in every way.
This article http://darwinian-medicine.com/10-reasons-why-you-s... is MUCH MUCH better. Actually including links to meta studies etc.
I've not long started training properly and trying to build muscle doing weights.
I've bought a tub of 'Sun Warrior' protein powder stuff and have taken to having one IMMEDIATELY after a session. I've not been blown away but have found it alleviates a lot of the post-workout exhaustion and that feeling like your body is trying to eat itself. I thought I'd noticed an improvement in recovery time as well but happy to accept that both of these may be placebo effects if that is indeed the case.
Is there no science around taking them immediately post-workout to repair muscle?
I've bought a tub of 'Sun Warrior' protein powder stuff and have taken to having one IMMEDIATELY after a session. I've not been blown away but have found it alleviates a lot of the post-workout exhaustion and that feeling like your body is trying to eat itself. I thought I'd noticed an improvement in recovery time as well but happy to accept that both of these may be placebo effects if that is indeed the case.
Is there no science around taking them immediately post-workout to repair muscle?
Disastrous said:
I've not long started training properly and trying to build muscle doing weights.
I've bought a tub of 'Sun Warrior' protein powder stuff and have taken to having one IMMEDIATELY after a session. I've not been blown away but have found it alleviates a lot of the post-workout exhaustion and that feeling like your body is trying to eat itself. I thought I'd noticed an improvement in recovery time as well but happy to accept that both of these may be placebo effects if that is indeed the case.
Is there no science around taking them immediately post-workout to repair muscle?
There is ZERO supporting evidence showing that a post workout window exists. There are many studies out there, none support it.I've bought a tub of 'Sun Warrior' protein powder stuff and have taken to having one IMMEDIATELY after a session. I've not been blown away but have found it alleviates a lot of the post-workout exhaustion and that feeling like your body is trying to eat itself. I thought I'd noticed an improvement in recovery time as well but happy to accept that both of these may be placebo effects if that is indeed the case.
Is there no science around taking them immediately post-workout to repair muscle?
As long as you eat the correct macronutrients and micronutrients throughout the day, 'nutrient timing' doesn't matter.
With more experience in the gym environment, your recovery times will vary, depending on what you're doing, how hard you're doing it, etc.
Overall, as said in the articles, get proper foods, enough of them, and don't expect magic from protein shakes and a couple of weeks in the gym. It doesn't happen.
TurboHatchback said:
I agree that this study is completely meaningless.
It seeks to promote public engagement whilst summarising the current state of evidence. That is, they're not of any use to anyone healthy. I suspect you've misread the article, and believe the suggested "supplemental" function mentioned in the conclusion, is far broader than it is stated in the body of text which suggested it has no purpose in the normal population.
Said it for years. It's just "another example of a self imposed tax on the stupid".
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