A simple strategy for losing weight - Sanity check please.
Discussion
I wanted to sanity check my logic here. (And no this person isn't me).
For (and I am being naive here and stereotyping) a typical overweight person I think the mantra often talked about on here is a great start; eat less, move more. Take some one who maybe drinks regularly, sits in an office all day, does snacking, comes home to a pre-made supermarket dinner to then sit on the couch all night in front of the box. Cutting out the booze, going for a brisk walk on an evening and eating healthier foods is a big change and you'd expect to see some kind of change.
But what if this person already doesn't drink, already eats meals prepared from scratch using fresh meats and vegetables, already keeps things like bread/pasta to a minimum (but doesn't exclude), already substitutes grated cauliflower for rice, already performs a level of exercise most people would consider quite serious. This person has a history of swim training at a very high level, doesn't do so much now, but still has high base level fitness and still does 3-4 proper swim training sessions a week, as well as running on two lunch times at work, a gym session and playing for a netball team (1 training session, 1 match per week).
And the weight is apparently not shifting.
Where do you go from here?
There is no booze to cut, no crap supermarket food to cut. I think adding more exercise is a hiding to nothing. I think significant extra time would need to be devoted to that to see a result and I don't think that is realistic if sustaining the change is the goal. I read something the other day that talked about metabolic rate, that a study had found MBR was the same for an office dweller as it was for a tribesman in Africa hunting for his next meal. In short 70-80% of daily energy expenditure is fixed, you only have control over the rest by exercise. On the other side of the equation of course you have 100% control of what goes in your mouth. So seems pertinent to focus there.
At this point in my thinking, the simple solution here is simply a matter of food quantity (its all good healthy food, but you'd still put on weight if you over eat). No major change in what is being eaten is needed, just changes to how much. Is this right? Is this too simple? it seems too simple.
But then how to start here? the MBR calc is a best fit to raw data. The confidence band on it is +/- 200 calories. Added to that different people will glean different amount of calories from the same food and how much you cook your food also means different calorie intake (a well cooked steak is easier to digest than a rare one, so the net effect is more calories). Are those thoughts right?
I don't particularly want to rely on calorie counting. It works for some, but it doesn't seem particularly well suited for those who make a lot of different meals from scratch using fresh ingredients. At best it felt like being only a step better than a wet finger in the air. For instance just searching for potato, 100 g yields a pretty broad spread of numbers. In fact the first two results are separated by 40 calories (about 50% difference!). Its just a mine field.
I am thinking a much easier approach is to begin visually reducing portion sizes, i.e. by serving up on physically smaller plates or perhaps base-lining by recording initial portion sizes by weight and then gradually reducing over time when you have that meal or type of meal again.
For (and I am being naive here and stereotyping) a typical overweight person I think the mantra often talked about on here is a great start; eat less, move more. Take some one who maybe drinks regularly, sits in an office all day, does snacking, comes home to a pre-made supermarket dinner to then sit on the couch all night in front of the box. Cutting out the booze, going for a brisk walk on an evening and eating healthier foods is a big change and you'd expect to see some kind of change.
But what if this person already doesn't drink, already eats meals prepared from scratch using fresh meats and vegetables, already keeps things like bread/pasta to a minimum (but doesn't exclude), already substitutes grated cauliflower for rice, already performs a level of exercise most people would consider quite serious. This person has a history of swim training at a very high level, doesn't do so much now, but still has high base level fitness and still does 3-4 proper swim training sessions a week, as well as running on two lunch times at work, a gym session and playing for a netball team (1 training session, 1 match per week).
And the weight is apparently not shifting.
Where do you go from here?
There is no booze to cut, no crap supermarket food to cut. I think adding more exercise is a hiding to nothing. I think significant extra time would need to be devoted to that to see a result and I don't think that is realistic if sustaining the change is the goal. I read something the other day that talked about metabolic rate, that a study had found MBR was the same for an office dweller as it was for a tribesman in Africa hunting for his next meal. In short 70-80% of daily energy expenditure is fixed, you only have control over the rest by exercise. On the other side of the equation of course you have 100% control of what goes in your mouth. So seems pertinent to focus there.
At this point in my thinking, the simple solution here is simply a matter of food quantity (its all good healthy food, but you'd still put on weight if you over eat). No major change in what is being eaten is needed, just changes to how much. Is this right? Is this too simple? it seems too simple.
But then how to start here? the MBR calc is a best fit to raw data. The confidence band on it is +/- 200 calories. Added to that different people will glean different amount of calories from the same food and how much you cook your food also means different calorie intake (a well cooked steak is easier to digest than a rare one, so the net effect is more calories). Are those thoughts right?
I don't particularly want to rely on calorie counting. It works for some, but it doesn't seem particularly well suited for those who make a lot of different meals from scratch using fresh ingredients. At best it felt like being only a step better than a wet finger in the air. For instance just searching for potato, 100 g yields a pretty broad spread of numbers. In fact the first two results are separated by 40 calories (about 50% difference!). Its just a mine field.
I am thinking a much easier approach is to begin visually reducing portion sizes, i.e. by serving up on physically smaller plates or perhaps base-lining by recording initial portion sizes by weight and then gradually reducing over time when you have that meal or type of meal again.
Eat less, move more still applies really, and if this person can't do much more exercise, you have to look at the intake. I'm in a similar position really, I cycle for an hour on each work day as my commute, and have a young family to help with the rest of the time.
I have about 10kgs I want to shift to make my climbing when cycling better, as weight is the enemy, and carry most of this on a spongy tummy, which I'd like to get rid of.
I've been working on it by looking to save calories where I can, without counting. Simple changes I've been making are:
The process is a bit slower than I might like, but the changes are sustainable, and are gradually working. It's also important not to weigh too often, as timing of doing so can have a huge impact on the the results.
I have about 10kgs I want to shift to make my climbing when cycling better, as weight is the enemy, and carry most of this on a spongy tummy, which I'd like to get rid of.
I've been working on it by looking to save calories where I can, without counting. Simple changes I've been making are:
- Instead of orange juice with breakfast and a flapjack for mid afternoon snack, I now have tea with no sugar and skimmed milk with breakfast, and an orange for my mid afternoon snack.
- Instead of a sandwich and crisps with lunch, I have a wrap and popcorn.
- When I feel peckish and would reach for a biscuit, I glug a pint of squash and then have a piece of sugar free gum.
The process is a bit slower than I might like, but the changes are sustainable, and are gradually working. It's also important not to weigh too often, as timing of doing so can have a huge impact on the the results.
lol, over thinking it much..
Calorie count, its not always right but don't worry about it because sometimes its not right and its under. For stuff you make yourself just scan barcodes and weigh everything to start with, your not going to get it right everyday but that isn't the point, the point is awareness of what your sticking in your gob. As for the bulls
t about calories absorb etc, that's such a low percent change in the food its irrelevant.. Same with running vs walking, running and walking by distance burn similar calories, their is a difference but really its irrelevant.
As for meals, 2 small 1 medium every day, 2 fruit (or similar) snacks, drink water, coffee, tea only if you have milk, count the milk.
TBH from your post id say you cant do it, you have the wrong attitude, your looking for excuses, you will continue to look to blame someone else or society or anything.
Losing weight is hard to do but its not rocket science in the sense of how to do it.
Calorie count, its not always right but don't worry about it because sometimes its not right and its under. For stuff you make yourself just scan barcodes and weigh everything to start with, your not going to get it right everyday but that isn't the point, the point is awareness of what your sticking in your gob. As for the bulls
t about calories absorb etc, that's such a low percent change in the food its irrelevant.. Same with running vs walking, running and walking by distance burn similar calories, their is a difference but really its irrelevant.As for meals, 2 small 1 medium every day, 2 fruit (or similar) snacks, drink water, coffee, tea only if you have milk, count the milk.
TBH from your post id say you cant do it, you have the wrong attitude, your looking for excuses, you will continue to look to blame someone else or society or anything.
Losing weight is hard to do but its not rocket science in the sense of how to do it.
Edited by Foliage on Thursday 14th July 11:09
Foliage said:
lol, over thinking it much..
Calorie count, its not always right but don't worry about it because sometimes its not right and its under. For stuff you make yourself just scan barcodes and weigh everything to start with, your not going to get it right everyday but that isn't the point, the point is awareness of what your sticking in your gob. As for the bullst about calories absorb etc, that's such a low percent change in the food its irrelevant.. Same with running vs walking, running and walking by distance burn similar calories, their is a difference but really its irrelevant.
As for meals, 2 small 1 medium every day, 2 fruit (or similar) snacks, drink water, coffee, tea only if you have milk, count the milk.
TBH from your post id say you cant do it, you have the wrong attitude, your looking for excuses, you will continue to look to blame someone else or society or anything.
Losing weight is hard to do but its not rocket science in the sense of how to do it.
I take some offence to your last comment as that is not the case at all. I am not even sure how you come to that conclusion. And again this is not about myself, I myself am not trying to do anything but maintain or perhaps increase. I am managing just fine without any effort needed. I am trying to give some guidance to someone else who does a lot of the same activities I do but clearly needs to put additional effort in on the food side.Calorie count, its not always right but don't worry about it because sometimes its not right and its under. For stuff you make yourself just scan barcodes and weigh everything to start with, your not going to get it right everyday but that isn't the point, the point is awareness of what your sticking in your gob. As for the bulls
t about calories absorb etc, that's such a low percent change in the food its irrelevant.. Same with running vs walking, running and walking by distance burn similar calories, their is a difference but really its irrelevant.As for meals, 2 small 1 medium every day, 2 fruit (or similar) snacks, drink water, coffee, tea only if you have milk, count the milk.
TBH from your post id say you cant do it, you have the wrong attitude, your looking for excuses, you will continue to look to blame someone else or society or anything.
Losing weight is hard to do but its not rocket science in the sense of how to do it.
Edited by Foliage on Thursday 14th July 11:09
I also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:34
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:35
Otispunkmeyer said:
I take some offence to your last comment as that is not the case at all. I am not even sure how you come to that conclusion. And again this is not about myself, I myself am not trying to do anything but maintain or perhaps increase. I am managing just fine without any effort needed. I am trying to give some guidance to someone else who does a lot of the same activities I do but clearly needs to put additional effort in on the food side.
I also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
If they are exercising enough and not losing weight, they are eating to much. There are many diet variations/eating protocols that talk about timing of macros, ratios of macros etc, but in essence they all rely on calorie deficits to loose weight. It really is as simple as that- get into a calorie deficit (via diet or exercise), stay in it, lose weight.I also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:34
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:35
The question now is how best to hit that deficit. I am not convinced of calorie counting, not for this person. As said its been tried in the past, twice, to little effect and they have been unable to stick it out. Clearly not a compatible avenue for whatever reason, even if it is the wrong attitude or being lazy, easier to bend the approach than bend the person.
The one thing I don't know about them is what they get up to at work. I am told its salads for lunch but I know full well.... dressing, croutons, olives.... suddenly you might as well be eating a pizza. A little more honesty needed with their work eating perhaps. I live with this person so I know what goes on for 2 of 3 meals of the day and what exercise goes on. But not what happens at work.
The one thing I don't know about them is what they get up to at work. I am told its salads for lunch but I know full well.... dressing, croutons, olives.... suddenly you might as well be eating a pizza. A little more honesty needed with their work eating perhaps. I live with this person so I know what goes on for 2 of 3 meals of the day and what exercise goes on. But not what happens at work.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I take some offence to your last comment as that is not the case at all. I am not even sure how you come to that conclusion. And again this is not about myself, I myself am not trying to do anything but maintain or perhaps increase. I am managing just fine without any effort needed. I am trying to give some guidance to someone else who does a lot of the same activities I do but clearly needs to put additional effort in on the food side.
I also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
The truth hurtsI also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:34
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:35
Most diets work, its the implementation that fails, ie the persons will fails.
I lost 4 stone using mfp, I see no reason for it not working. But if it doesn't fit your lifestyle then plenty of diets work (slimming world and weight watchers are both plans ive seen people have remarkable results with) and will work unless of course they don't have the will power to not eat, which really is what it boils down to. Dieting is easy, eat less... But its not easy in that the brain pushes against that, for various reasons.
I have friend who are obese, they will never be thin, they just don't have the will power to diet and stick with it long term, they make a mistake one day, have something they shouldn't and take the downward spiral and give in.
Its always interesting that people get into the minute detail of dieting, these are the people who remain fat, they don't understand the bigger picture of it, its accumulative effect over months. When I did it I tried to take a very cold and scientific approach, collecting as much data as I could. You cant expect result over a week, you will plateau, your body will test your resolve.
Edited by Foliage on Thursday 14th July 12:10
Smaller portion sizes. I am the same, eat healthily, almost always cook from scratch, but have big portions and sometimes seconds. I am 186 cm and 90 kg.
If I control my portion sizes, and when I experimented with 16:8 intermittent fasting, I lost weight.
I know it's not particularly belly fat you are talking about, but did you see Trust Me I'm a Doctor the other night?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36763102
If I control my portion sizes, and when I experimented with 16:8 intermittent fasting, I lost weight.
I know it's not particularly belly fat you are talking about, but did you see Trust Me I'm a Doctor the other night?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36763102
Foliage said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
I take some offence to your last comment as that is not the case at all. I am not even sure how you come to that conclusion. And again this is not about myself, I myself am not trying to do anything but maintain or perhaps increase. I am managing just fine without any effort needed. I am trying to give some guidance to someone else who does a lot of the same activities I do but clearly needs to put additional effort in on the food side.
I also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
The truth hurtsI also don't think I have quite explained my concerns about calorie counting. Most of the food stuffs dont have a bar code, its market veg and meats. As I have said the same vegetable comes back with a 50% spread of values for same weight. To my mind that is as good as useless. Said person has also tried MFP in the past, twice, but for whatever reason seems unable to really make it stick in their routine. To that I say why bother trying again...., dead horse. it needs a different approach. Calorie counting is not a one-size fits all solution and nor is it the only solution.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:34
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 14th July 11:35
Most diets work, its the implementation that fails, ie the persons will fails.
I lost 4 stone using mfp, I see no reason for it not working. But if it doesn't fit your lifestyle then plenty of diets work (slimming world and weight watchers are both plans ive seen people have remarkable results with) and will work unless of course they don't have the will power to not eat, which really is what it boils down to. Dieting is easy, eat less... But its not easy in that the brain pushes against that, for various reasons.
I have friend who are obese, they will never be thin, they just don't have the will power to diet and stick with it long term, they make a mistake one day, have something they shouldn't and take the downward spiral and give in.
Its always interesting that people get into the minute detail of dieting, these are the people who remain fat, they don't understand the bigger picture of it, its accumulative effect over months. When I did it I tried to take a very cold and scientific approach, collecting as much data as I could. You cant expect result over a week, you will plateau, your body will test your resolve.
Edited by Foliage on Thursday 14th July 12:10
This person would love to lose a similar amount I suspect. They have been thin before (with copious exercise, I am talking 60-70 km a week in the pool) so I believe they can get there. Like many who suddenly drop from such levels, they continue to eat like a horse and are bigger before they know it.
I would have considered MFP to be going into the minutiae of dieting! I know it makes you very aware of whats going on. For someone like me it would be a great tool if I needed it. I like numbers. For this person I think it only serves to make them too conscious of the size of the task. They'd very quickly get disheartened with the whole thing after making changes and still finding themselves missing targets. Unfortunately not the type to tighten the screws, rather think why bother?
It needs something that is more transparent, like they don't know it is happening. Difficult task I am sure. But perhaps they will have no choice but to use MFP in the end. But hopefully they would be on some kind of wagon that will give momentum to the MFP process.
trumptriple said:
Smaller portion sizes. I am the same, eat healthily, almost always cook from scratch, but have big portions and sometimes seconds. I am 186 cm and 90 kg.
If I control my portion sizes, and when I experimented with 16:8 intermittent fasting, I lost weight.
I know it's not particularly belly fat you are talking about, but did you see Trust Me I'm a Doctor the other night?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36763102
Belly fat to be shifted certainly. But overall reduction is the ultimate goal. Thanks for the link, will give it at watch. Will also have a read of 16:8. I guess its come from 5:2 or whatever. I am thinking a conscious reduction in portion sizes is the first step to take.If I control my portion sizes, and when I experimented with 16:8 intermittent fasting, I lost weight.
I know it's not particularly belly fat you are talking about, but did you see Trust Me I'm a Doctor the other night?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36763102
From that link:
The clear winner was the diet-control group. This group lost a collective 35kg (77lb) between them which was an average of 3.7kg (8.2lb) each over just six weeks. Their average waistline reduced by 5cm (2in).
The DEXA scan readings were the most interesting with 5% less body fat and an impressive 14% reduction of the dangerous visceral fat inside the abdomen. This group lost overall body fat as well as abdominal fat. They also saw improvements in the health parameters.
But they did lose some muscle tone from their legs, which is not a good thing.
Thus, the conclusion is that if you want to bust the belly fat in a healthy and effective way, it's the age-old advice of a combination of diet and exercise. Leave the fads where you found them.
What did Foliage say, again?
BTW I just scrolled right to the bottom bypassing the situps and crunches padding.
FWIW when people come on MFP saying they've tried this and that and counting calories, the number 1 reason why they are still unsuccessful is because they weren't really counting calories or reducing the amount of food they were eating. The other reason is medical (eg chemotherapy, thyroid issues) but that can be discounted by a quick visit to the doctor.
The clear winner was the diet-control group. This group lost a collective 35kg (77lb) between them which was an average of 3.7kg (8.2lb) each over just six weeks. Their average waistline reduced by 5cm (2in).
The DEXA scan readings were the most interesting with 5% less body fat and an impressive 14% reduction of the dangerous visceral fat inside the abdomen. This group lost overall body fat as well as abdominal fat. They also saw improvements in the health parameters.
But they did lose some muscle tone from their legs, which is not a good thing.
Thus, the conclusion is that if you want to bust the belly fat in a healthy and effective way, it's the age-old advice of a combination of diet and exercise. Leave the fads where you found them.
What did Foliage say, again?
BTW I just scrolled right to the bottom bypassing the situps and crunches padding.
FWIW when people come on MFP saying they've tried this and that and counting calories, the number 1 reason why they are still unsuccessful is because they weren't really counting calories or reducing the amount of food they were eating. The other reason is medical (eg chemotherapy, thyroid issues) but that can be discounted by a quick visit to the doctor.
Hoofy said:
From that link:
The clear winner was the diet-control group. This group lost a collective 35kg (77lb) between them which was an average of 3.7kg (8.2lb) each over just six weeks. Their average waistline reduced by 5cm (2in).
The DEXA scan readings were the most interesting with 5% less body fat and an impressive 14% reduction of the dangerous visceral fat inside the abdomen. This group lost overall body fat as well as abdominal fat. They also saw improvements in the health parameters.
But they did lose some muscle tone from their legs, which is not a good thing.
Thus, the conclusion is that if you want to bust the belly fat in a healthy and effective way, it's the age-old advice of a combination of diet and exercise. Leave the fads where you found them.
What did Foliage say, again?
BTW I just scrolled right to the bottom bypassing the situps and crunches padding.
FWIW when people come on MFP saying they've tried this and that and counting calories, the number 1 reason why they are still unsuccessful is because they weren't really counting calories or reducing the amount of food they were eating. The other reason is medical (eg chemotherapy, thyroid issues) but that can be discounted by a quick visit to the doctor.
It says they used their hands to measure portion sizes. I assume they used a method like this:The clear winner was the diet-control group. This group lost a collective 35kg (77lb) between them which was an average of 3.7kg (8.2lb) each over just six weeks. Their average waistline reduced by 5cm (2in).
The DEXA scan readings were the most interesting with 5% less body fat and an impressive 14% reduction of the dangerous visceral fat inside the abdomen. This group lost overall body fat as well as abdominal fat. They also saw improvements in the health parameters.
But they did lose some muscle tone from their legs, which is not a good thing.
Thus, the conclusion is that if you want to bust the belly fat in a healthy and effective way, it's the age-old advice of a combination of diet and exercise. Leave the fads where you found them.
What did Foliage say, again?
BTW I just scrolled right to the bottom bypassing the situps and crunches padding.
FWIW when people come on MFP saying they've tried this and that and counting calories, the number 1 reason why they are still unsuccessful is because they weren't really counting calories or reducing the amount of food they were eating. The other reason is medical (eg chemotherapy, thyroid issues) but that can be discounted by a quick visit to the doctor.
http://lifehacker.com/5880630/use-your-hand-to-est...
Seems more straightforward than MFP.
It took me over a year, whats the rush was my philosophy.
From my experience you cant really target weight loss (8minutes abs everyday, then a harder ab work out didn't make any difference to my weight loss, it did give me a killer strong core and neck), its the places where its thickest that are likely the areas that its wanting to be lost from, but for me fat came off in a uniform manner, hands, feet, face, legs, but of course as a man its worse around my stomach and kidney area, the fat is keeping them vital areas warm, and these are the areas I still struggle with.
Muscle loss I never saw as an issue, losing the fat was more important than the muscle loss.
From my experience you cant really target weight loss (8minutes abs everyday, then a harder ab work out didn't make any difference to my weight loss, it did give me a killer strong core and neck), its the places where its thickest that are likely the areas that its wanting to be lost from, but for me fat came off in a uniform manner, hands, feet, face, legs, but of course as a man its worse around my stomach and kidney area, the fat is keeping them vital areas warm, and these are the areas I still struggle with.
Muscle loss I never saw as an issue, losing the fat was more important than the muscle loss.
Otispunkmeyer said:
It says they used their hands to measure portion sizes. I assume they used a method like this:
http://lifehacker.com/5880630/use-your-hand-to-est...
Seems more straightforward than MFP.
All diets work, try it, let us know how you get on, will power is key. Your friend is likely secret eating. http://lifehacker.com/5880630/use-your-hand-to-est...
Seems more straightforward than MFP.
After I run I get super craving for loads of carbs/sugars, I sometimes give in to it, I eat far to much in these instances. Will power is key.
Tigerite said:
Have you considered getting your thyroid tested? As if that is out of whack, then it will be a real struggle (if not almost impossible) to lose any excess weight.
Im 6ft 3 and 75kg.... I don't need to be doing anything 
I am trusting person so am inclined to think there is no lying, but strongly agree that ignorance plays a big part. For instance they were very surprised a while back to find out how much calories are in these drinks you can get from the likes of costa coffee. You might as well have had 2 cans of coke. You'd be better off.
They also wanted to try juicing or whatever, but even that is fraught.... so much fruit, so much sugar.
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