What's up,with my father. Found on floor.
Discussion
On Friday around 3pm I found my father in the floor upstairs of his house.
Semi conscious, unable to speak or move. He'd obviously been there a while worst case from Wednesday evening.
8 hours in a&e later he's moved to amu. They put him on fluids normal saline.
So no heart attack, temperature,glucose and all other bloods normal, pressure heart rate etc. A scan on his head reveals no stroke.
So they start treating with anti biotics assuming it is a water infection.
So wednesday he's normal active, mentally able and quite independent. Friday he's basically a zombi. Can't speak or move
Small improvement saturday he could mumble sort of yes/no to simple questions but won't respond to do you know where you are. Hardly move hands was able to give him water.
Today a little improvement able to move hands slowly. Will eat small amounts if I feed him. But is still not functioning mentally and can only say yes or no to simple questions seems very confused.
Can an infection cause a normally mentally bright person to turn over night into somebody like that? I asked if the blood results had indicated an infection they said no. I get the impression they don't know but usually it's an infection hence treating like it is.
All seems very strange also I seem to be having trouble explaining to the staff that this isn't normal for him. It's all very odd.
Edit he's 70 no episodes like this before generally healthy but has bad eyesight.
Semi conscious, unable to speak or move. He'd obviously been there a while worst case from Wednesday evening.
8 hours in a&e later he's moved to amu. They put him on fluids normal saline.
So no heart attack, temperature,glucose and all other bloods normal, pressure heart rate etc. A scan on his head reveals no stroke.
So they start treating with anti biotics assuming it is a water infection.
So wednesday he's normal active, mentally able and quite independent. Friday he's basically a zombi. Can't speak or move
Small improvement saturday he could mumble sort of yes/no to simple questions but won't respond to do you know where you are. Hardly move hands was able to give him water.
Today a little improvement able to move hands slowly. Will eat small amounts if I feed him. But is still not functioning mentally and can only say yes or no to simple questions seems very confused.
Can an infection cause a normally mentally bright person to turn over night into somebody like that? I asked if the blood results had indicated an infection they said no. I get the impression they don't know but usually it's an infection hence treating like it is.
All seems very strange also I seem to be having trouble explaining to the staff that this isn't normal for him. It's all very odd.
Edit he's 70 no episodes like this before generally healthy but has bad eyesight.
Edited by Pesty on Sunday 1st January 23:59
UTIs don't always present as classic symptoms in the elderly.
"UTIs may not cause these classic symptoms in older adults. Instead, older adults, especially those with dementia, may experience behavioral symptoms such as confusion."
"When an older adult has classic UTI symptoms, they may be unable to tell you about them. That may be due to age-related issues such as dementia or Alzheimer’s disease. Symptoms such as confusion may be vague and mimic other conditions.
Non-classic UTI symptoms may include:
incontinence
agitation
lethargy
falls
urinary retention
decreased mobility
decreased appetite"
These symptoms can also appear when they are dehydrated.
He should be perking up fairly quickly if he's properly hydrated and on ABs though...
"UTIs may not cause these classic symptoms in older adults. Instead, older adults, especially those with dementia, may experience behavioral symptoms such as confusion."
"When an older adult has classic UTI symptoms, they may be unable to tell you about them. That may be due to age-related issues such as dementia or Alzheimer’s disease. Symptoms such as confusion may be vague and mimic other conditions.
Non-classic UTI symptoms may include:
incontinence
agitation
lethargy
falls
urinary retention
decreased mobility
decreased appetite"
These symptoms can also appear when they are dehydrated.
He should be perking up fairly quickly if he's properly hydrated and on ABs though...
Sorry to hear this. I hope he gets well soon.
However none of us here will know, it's down to the medically qualified staff at the hospital.
One thing I do know - can an infection do this? Oh yes. I've had meningitis. I was 25 and as fit as a butcher's dog. For 12 hours I thought I had flu and I drove a car 25 miles to my parents' place thinking "if I'm going to be this sick then I need to get to where there is catering laid on". 12 hours after that I was unable to stand, delirious and being carried down the stairs by 2 paramedics. Obviously this came with other symptoms, extreme pain, nausea, delirium, but if a 25 year old man can go from driving a car to unable to move in 12 hours then so can a man of 70.
Other than that you have to trust in the professionals who know about these things.
However none of us here will know, it's down to the medically qualified staff at the hospital.
One thing I do know - can an infection do this? Oh yes. I've had meningitis. I was 25 and as fit as a butcher's dog. For 12 hours I thought I had flu and I drove a car 25 miles to my parents' place thinking "if I'm going to be this sick then I need to get to where there is catering laid on". 12 hours after that I was unable to stand, delirious and being carried down the stairs by 2 paramedics. Obviously this came with other symptoms, extreme pain, nausea, delirium, but if a 25 year old man can go from driving a car to unable to move in 12 hours then so can a man of 70.
Other than that you have to trust in the professionals who know about these things.
I clearly am NOT from a medical background, but has the hospital given your dad a CT Scan?
I only ask, as when i had my fall in May 2014 I knew nothing until I woke up in hospital the following morning. I felt fine and they released me, (was working away from home.) Later that day, bad heads and the following morning the crew I was working with sent me back to hospital as they were concerned.
It then turns out that on my first admission no X-rays or scans were done. The now A&E consultant was concerned about this and sent me for some X-rays/scans and it was from the results of these that the 3 fractures on my skull and 3 bleeds on my brain were found.
Not the sort of thing you'd want missed.
I know you say its not a stroke with your dad, which is good, just make sure all the right tests have been done, (I'm sure they have.)
Other than that I'd have maybe though water infection, but you said that has been ruled out as well.
Fingers crossed for you and your dad, certainly sounds a bit of an odd one.
I only ask, as when i had my fall in May 2014 I knew nothing until I woke up in hospital the following morning. I felt fine and they released me, (was working away from home.) Later that day, bad heads and the following morning the crew I was working with sent me back to hospital as they were concerned.
It then turns out that on my first admission no X-rays or scans were done. The now A&E consultant was concerned about this and sent me for some X-rays/scans and it was from the results of these that the 3 fractures on my skull and 3 bleeds on my brain were found.
Not the sort of thing you'd want missed.
I know you say its not a stroke with your dad, which is good, just make sure all the right tests have been done, (I'm sure they have.)
Other than that I'd have maybe though water infection, but you said that has been ruled out as well.
Fingers crossed for you and your dad, certainly sounds a bit of an odd one.
CAPP0 said:
Sorry to hear this. Must be very distressing for you all.
From my absolutely untrained perspective, I would have thought that sounds like a stroke, but you say they've ruled that out. Hope there is some improvement soon.
Aarently UTI's From my absolutely untrained perspective, I would have thought that sounds like a stroke, but you say they've ruled that out. Hope there is some improvement soon.
can mimic the symptoms of a stroke.
Best wishes for your Dad Pesty.
Edited by gooner1 on Monday 2nd January 00:24
Sorry to read about what's happened, how worrying.
I used to work with the elderly and UTIs could be really debilitating. Normally active and functioning could very quickly become repeatedly falling and very confused. It was quite an eye opener
OTOH strokes don't always show up clearly on scans. I am not a doctor, however an ex suffered repeated haemorrhagic strokes. Even went blind for a few weeks at one point.
I used to work with the elderly and UTIs could be really debilitating. Normally active and functioning could very quickly become repeatedly falling and very confused. It was quite an eye opener
OTOH strokes don't always show up clearly on scans. I am not a doctor, however an ex suffered repeated haemorrhagic strokes. Even went blind for a few weeks at one point.
chilistrucker said:
I clearly am NOT from a medical background, but has the hospital given your dad a CT Scan?
Yes, they first thought it was a stroke and he had a ct scan. No bleeds apparently hence the anti biotics.wizzard67 said:
What does he respond to? Anything? There's always at least one thing .
Today he was responding to "do you want any water" mumbleIf he was fidgeting do you want the bed lower "mumble"
Usually took a few more questions to work out if that was a yes or a no. But he obviously understands what we are saying. It's like he can't form any words
Definitely seemed more switched on today. If he had been lying on the floor since Wednesday he could have been dehydrated too, I wasn't allowed to give him any water untill the results of the scan which took a long time but they did get saline into him.
So steady improvements maybe the anti biotics are kicking in.
Edited by Pesty on Monday 2nd January 00:56
No bleeds is good.
Fingers crossed it all gets sussed out soon. From what you have described, after head/stroke issues i'd have thought UTI but it isn't.
The body, brain and its workings are complex/odd at times.
My 1st 2 days in hospital they woke me every hour and asked very basic questions, name, d.o.b, day of week etc. It annoyed me at the time, but I now fully understand why they were doing it, and am grateful.
Fingers crossed it all gets sussed out soon. From what you have described, after head/stroke issues i'd have thought UTI but it isn't.
The body, brain and its workings are complex/odd at times.
My 1st 2 days in hospital they woke me every hour and asked very basic questions, name, d.o.b, day of week etc. It annoyed me at the time, but I now fully understand why they were doing it, and am grateful.
chilistrucker said:
No bleeds is good.
Fingers crossed it all gets sussed out soon. From what you have described, after head/stroke issues i'd have thought UTI but it isn't.
The body, brain and its workings are complex/odd at times.
My 1st 2 days in hospital they woke me every hour and asked very basic questions, name, d.o.b, day of week etc. It annoyed me at the time, but I now fully understand why they were doing it, and am grateful.
When I was in last year they did the same to me extremely annoying( in a good way) oh and the automatic blood pressure monitor they set to go off at 5 minute intervals while I was in resus all night dear lord forget water boarding.Fingers crossed it all gets sussed out soon. From what you have described, after head/stroke issues i'd have thought UTI but it isn't.
The body, brain and its workings are complex/odd at times.
My 1st 2 days in hospital they woke me every hour and asked very basic questions, name, d.o.b, day of week etc. It annoyed me at the time, but I now fully understand why they were doing it, and am grateful.
One poor nurse today seemed to be covering at least four bays today, I haven't seen a doctor outside of a and e . It there was a guy doing the rounds for the obs.
On amu he was supposed to be seen in the morning on Saturday I was there until about 2pm the round was running late they must have came just after I left no more information for me when I got back letter that afternoon.
I don't think there is anything else they can do, it's weird but I have hope because as they havnt found anything that seems to suggest that he will get better.
It's just that looking at him not being able to function with no reason is very worrying.
Edited by Pesty on Monday 2nd January 01:41
I fully understand your fears. The NHS is a funny old kettle of fish.
I can't fault it with my own issues a couple of years back. I was in Belfast Royal and although the initial f
k up by A&E was a bit dubious, once I was admitted they were fantastic. I'm with you on the BP though.
A few years previous though when dad was in, I was less than impressed at times with some of the procedures and some of the nursing staff, (agency.) I would never try and play down the fantastic effort most of the staff put it, often over worked/under payed but the odd agency staff members were dire.
No compassion, no actual ability, and no real understanding. We found 1 asleep 1 night in a bed in a private room, and she didn't give a toss.
Under pay NHS staff for years, and eventually they will up sticks and bugger off to pastures new and who can blame them.
Just a shame we end up being left with the whole agency scenario. Still under payed staff some of whom couldn't care in the slightest, whilst their bosses and whoever it is who rewards them their contracts continue to pat each other on the back as their bank balances grow.
The world we live and die in sadly.
Fingers crossed for you and your family, hope your dad picks up soon.
You have PM
I can't fault it with my own issues a couple of years back. I was in Belfast Royal and although the initial f
k up by A&E was a bit dubious, once I was admitted they were fantastic. I'm with you on the BP though.A few years previous though when dad was in, I was less than impressed at times with some of the procedures and some of the nursing staff, (agency.) I would never try and play down the fantastic effort most of the staff put it, often over worked/under payed but the odd agency staff members were dire.
No compassion, no actual ability, and no real understanding. We found 1 asleep 1 night in a bed in a private room, and she didn't give a toss.
Under pay NHS staff for years, and eventually they will up sticks and bugger off to pastures new and who can blame them.
Just a shame we end up being left with the whole agency scenario. Still under payed staff some of whom couldn't care in the slightest, whilst their bosses and whoever it is who rewards them their contracts continue to pat each other on the back as their bank balances grow.
The world we live and die in sadly.
Fingers crossed for you and your family, hope your dad picks up soon.
You have PM
Edited by chilistrucker on Monday 2nd January 02:07
Pothole said:
chilistrucker said:
. We found 1 asleep 1 night in a bed in a private room, and she didn't give a toss.
Shocking on the face of it, but you really have no idea of the background to that encounter.She was there for a couple of days, and always 'appeared' to be the member of staff doing the least amount of work. Most of the staff were excellent at all times, but this one just seemed to spend her time shuffling around at a sloth like pace having no real interest in her job. If she hated her job, I could understand her lack of enthusiasm although maybe not agree with it.
A few families had put complaints in, and she was moved to a different ward.
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